DuneWars: Battle for Arrakis

[Slvynn]

Ix is not an issue but others will be.
If Fremen have Climate constrol then soon they will have Way of Liet.

 

[Deliverator]

I reckon get Solaris Economy then Way of Liet. Way of Liet is cheap (3 turns) and it will get the terraforming under way even without Catchbasins. It really is a tiny detour.

I agree with Ahriman's points that we should be focusing on getting better melee fighters Shield Fighters or Naib's Chosen (with Fremen Water Debt from the Fremen) to keep our conquest going. Strength 12/13 melee units with city attack bonuses are a better value investment than suiciding Missile Launchers it seems to me, although Missile Launchers are effective at reducing cities.

From a role-playing point of view and gameplay point of view we should be trying really hard to get Fremen Water Debt - building Naib's Chosen which upgrade to Fedaykin will give us a massive advantage. We should be doing all we can to get the Fremen to love us more.

With hornets and shield fighters, we can take defenses low enough that the shield fighters mostly win, and so we preserve our army.

With double collateral damage missile launchers, you will have to suicide a lot of missile launchers in order to take cities. That's not very sustainable.

Bombers and shield fighters will be much more effective than using lots of missile launchers.

I agree with these points.

 

[Slvynn]

Ok I trying to make comprehencive sequence for my turn set. No way i get close to far techs during it. Also, as all of us i leaving some minor part for me to deicide.
For now i starting with Solaris economy and building souks. (and military)
Then i'll check way of liet in trade, if its not aviable then i take it , and then i go for Vendettas. (we are 3 vs2) , I disagree on point that hornets will be enough to deal with city defence - both ix and Ecaz have missile or rocket troopers.
Even if we go to Shield Fighters / Chosens - Kanly as well as Heavy Trooper are usefull alot. RP wise Kanly is still good to take. Also heavy trooper is better defence wise investment of hammers than later shield fighters. And we will be hated by all - as soon we adopt Paradise civic those civs will almost permanent war wis us:
Corrino
Ordos
Harkonnen
Ix
Ecaz.
Do you sure you want to skip Kanly and Heavy troopers? Its not good. Defence unit is for defence, and note that some units have hight +% with melee. Also Kanly 7 xp heavy trooper means it have CG 2 promotion, which makes it much better.
We cant attack whole world at same time, but it will attack us.
We will defend much more than we will attack.

 

[negyvenketto]

If the Fremen have climate controls now (which would surprise me) then by all means trade for it. We should trade for any tech the Fremen ever get that we don't. But I suspect they won't have any.

They have.
I suggest turn all espionage points towards Fremen, and if they research something we have, gift it to them. Hopefully they already researching Way of Liet.

 

[Slvynn]

Ok started to play - here is info on very rich 2 turns.

-Made peace with Shaddam , who gave 90 gold +3 per turn and his world map
-Traded Climate Controls for basic Ornithopters Tech + 25 gold with fremen.
- Next tech is Solaris Economy
Used Wasps to scout Ix, and found that:

1. Their northern cities are poorly defended. Their main defence is in southern ones which share landmass with Harkonnen and Ordos (what a great company!)
2. Harks have really huge stack there. Still no transports though.

Because CHOAM city is defended only by 2 master guardsmans (SL14 - still need to tweak ai, its not vanilla landmasses , the thing that city on island not means that its hard to hit , It should be considered as border city by Ecaz - and one of best ones which he need to defend) - i gathering attack now.
Ordering more 1 Elite suspensor transport from Ecaz, and starting to move towards city of Tutilah. We'll take oportunity.

Making peace with Ordos who are ready to pay us gold even. We have no wars at the moment. We should increase defences, and Ixian landmass will fall soon to us.

Spoiler :

Its only 2 turns evens, to be continued

 

[AnotherPacifist]

I think the Harkonnens are going to DOW on us when we do Ix. Maybe we should try to buy them into attacking Ix instead, their stacks can easily cancel each other out at Arsunt and Al Sain, and then we can swoop in and take out the rest.
I still think we need an ally, maybe the Sisters?

 

[Slvynn]

I've played more one turn. No oportunity for us. AI is smarter than i though - it spread his defences as soon as he saw transports incoming. I think i'll not risk it. We have too weak army for those heavy troopers. Ix is veryyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy far from us in tech.

We are not in good situation. I scouted with Wasps and rivals have huge stacks. Ecaz demanded tech, and i denied. Very soon it wil be us against 5 rivals. At least Ix is not their ally. Perhaps Hark will attack Ix instead of us. Thats our hope ....

BG is not in good mood as well - they are pretty weak too.
i traded 1 resource with her and gifted other one.

 

[Ahriman]

Do you sure you want to skip Kanly and Heavy troopers?

Where did I ever say I wanted to skip these? My compromise proposals have all included Vendettas tech as an early priority.

I just think we'll need Shield Troopers too, in order to be able to actually take well-defended cities.

I disagree on point that hornets will be enough to deal with city defence - both ix and Ecaz have missile or rocket troopers.

Hornets and thopters can potentially destroy incoming stacks before they reach our shores. So how are missile troopers relevant? They're in transports.
Hornets are just to damage suspensor destroyers to the point where falcon thopters can kill them easily.

I suggest turn all espionage points towards Fremen, and if they research something we have, gift it to them.

I don't understand this. Surely we should put *not* espionage towards Fremen? Its kindof a waste.

i gathering attack now.

Sounds good to me. Best of luck! Can we do pillage raiding vs Ordos?

I think i'll not risk it.

Up to you, use your judgement.

 

[Slvynn]

Hornets and thopters can potentially destroy incoming stacks before they reach our shores. So how are missile troopers relevant? They're in transports.
Hornets are just to damage suspensor destroyers to the point where falcon thopters can kill them easily.


.

You didnt understood me - I mean Hornets cant bomb enemy city defences. So we have nothing to deal with cultural % def. And thats pretty bad ... Perhaps Chemical Explosives right after Solaris economy because i need to gather necessary army.
Please note that we have peace now with everybody. Ecaz might attack us and Harkonnen might attack us or Ix. But our stack is very weak now, we need better army and mortats at least to bomb defences.

Also i was kinda tired abit yesterday (i hurt my hand badly 2 days ago and felt bad 2 last days) so i didnt finished it yet, my appologies, will try to do it soon

 

[negyvenketto]

I suggest turn all espionage points towards Fremen, and if they research something we have, gift it to them.

I don't understand this. Surely we should put *not* espionage towards Fremen? Its kindof a waste.

I mean put EP until we can see what they are researching (maximize for some turns, not forever). We should use them to help our goal. If they go for something useful we can skip that tech and trade for it when they finished. If they researching smg we know, we should gift it to them, not wasting beakers.

 

[Ahriman]

You didnt understood me - I mean Hornets cant bomb enemy city defences

Ah, ok, but they can strafe the units in the cities, which can be just as good (or better). This is what I meant. Also, the bomber hornets can reduce city defenses.

But our stack is very weak now, we need better army and mortats at least to bomb defences

This sounds fine, just use your judgement here.

i hurt my hand badly 2 days ago

Ouch! Best wishes for a swift recovery.
There's no rush, take your time.

I mean put EP until we can see what they are researching (maximize for some turns, not forever).

Ah, ok. This probably wouldn't take very much in the way of EPs, but we don't have any real EP output.
However, I think its highly unlikely given the very weak Fremen economy that they will ever be researching any techs we don't have already until the point where we should already have picked it up on our own. I'm fine with gifting them stuff, but I doubt we should expect much in return.

 

[negyvenketto]

Ah, ok. This probably wouldn't take very much in the way of EPs, but we don't have any real EP output.
However, I think its highly unlikely given the very weak Fremen economy that they will ever be researching any techs we don't have already until the point where we should already have picked it up on our own. I'm fine with gifting them stuff, but I doubt we should expect much in return.

We have some courthouses or whatever. In 3 turns we can see what they are going for. At least 2 civs already have Vendettas, we need to catch them. Every turns count. Our enemies can trade techs, we should maximize the benefit from our only trading partnership. We mustn't reaserch the same thing as the Fremen. Those beakers are lost.

 

[Slvynn]

I stongly agree with nagyvenketto
We have 22 EP as i remeber (i am still on job, when will be at home i will play rest)
Enemies share religion and trade techs crazily - and we are far backwards in tech now.
I think i saw shield fighter somewhere, lets hope its just from Offworld Reinforcment.

 

[Deliverator]

Do we have House Libraries built everywhere for the +25% research?

 

[Slvynn]

Do we have House Libraries built everywhere for the +25% research?

in 50% places
our problem that 5 hostile houses are techwhores and exchanging techs alot

 

[Slvynn]

My save from turn 163 was lost because i just felt sleep yesterday, so i started from 162.

I didnt traided with BG.
Turn 163
EPs 22 - Fremen.
Qulumryah revolting under Tleilaxu pressure - we need to put noblemen there.
Ordos agree to declare war on Harkonnen if we give him Air Power and Benevolence. We wont agree on this but will remeber this.
Burseg settled in Arrakeen.
Gave 1 Coffee and 1 Burroweed to Fremen. They should fill themselves better now. I hope they will declare their Water Debt to us.

Turn 164
I check Ordos again. This greedy dog wants Air Power for attacking Harkonnen. Harkonnen have CRAZY stacks. That will be fun, both will be hurt and their hands will be busy. Ordos the greedy Dog attacks Harks .
Ecaz is not WHOOH. So he is not preparing for war. We finish line of Water souks and starting Weather Scanners.


Turn 165
Great Prophet come to Arrakeen.
Shaddam IV declares war on Harkonnen!!!!!! Ordos bought him ! Thats going to be funnier more than i expected! Good news, indeed
Prophet settled in Arrakeen to supervise our Capital well-faring.

Spoiler :

 

[Slvynn]

Turn 166 - Ordos propose to join war. Yes. There is Harg Pass city defended by 1 mortar on the pole. Paul already sent Thopter and transport with loyal zealots there, and dispatched Hornets on near base to bomb the city. Mahdi have its own prescient visions We go for Chemical Explosives asap.

Turn 167 - We take Harg Pass.
Our thopters pillage carefully other Harkonen lands. We get cash, Ordos get Harkonnens stacks on their land.

Our 60% of Zealots from Wind Pass are half of the way to Harg Pass.

Turn 168. Ordos under siege of Harkonnen. I moveing few thopters and Zealots to south, building new thopters ans souks.
Our southern wings pillaging Harkonnen land and we pillage their only crystal resource. That will keep them from building crystal-related units.
Temporrary Oben Borders threaty signed with Ordos - and our Hornets base out of Ordos cities now - And good news - harkonen have not anti-aicraft troops - so we can strike them unpunished at will.
We wont help to Ordos we will just scout and will help to pillage to our Thopters with Hornet support.
Ordos annoy capital of Harks - Carthag , while Harkonnens urge to break east part of Ordos cities. Presence of Ordos units will help us to pillage Hark's Capital

We got words from our spies - Fremen research Way of Liet!!! Thats its good. 2 turns and we will trade it, plan worked.

Turn 169 -
Malky demands Air power - we deny. We have good defences in Wind Pass.
Ordos lose city of Chin Rock to Harkonnen.

 

[Ahriman]

We got words from our spies - Fremen research Way of Liet!!! Thats its good. 2 turns and we will trade it, plan worked.

Great, you guys were right.
Nice job on fomenting dissension and getting some good raiding in. If everyone hates us, we may as well make them hate each other too.

Looks like we're pretty well positioned.

I'm very glad to see that the Ordos AIs really do behave like mercenary scum.

 

[Slvynn]

Ordos losing east land but ammasing good stacks towards Harkonnen capital, which is pilaged by our Air Forces.

Turn 270 - We complete chemical explosives.
Vendettas 18 turns away. Shield fighters 21, Liquid Fuel 11 - i go for liquid fuel. not only because awesome missile lauchers swho own on open land but because more awesome, faster Defence units (missile troopers) and even more awesome Bombers, which cause collaterial damage.
Ordos use missile launchers against Harkonnen - and i hope it will keep balance at bay.

Turn 271 - Carthag - capital of Harkonnen brings us income - and being pillaged to stone age, our pilots unpunished. we deliver some forces to Carthag, waiting till Ordos will attack.
Seems like Harkonnen own Ordos, but this allow us to pillage Harkonnen cities to stone age.
We see as Harkonnen starting override Ordos - We help bombing their stacks and we lose 1 Hornet to Harkonnen Rocket Trooper.
Our transports incoming soon. We pray to take poor defencded, pillaged capital of Harkonnens.
Fremen dont want to trade Way of Liet yet - but they will soon - they started to tech Chem Explosives and i gifted it to them. Soon we will switch our EPs to Harks.


Fighting ongoing - our Zealots arrive at turn 273, but they even not charge - Ordos attacks Carthag, leaving 1 grenade trooper alive - and we take it !!!!!! , without losing single unit.

274
Gifted to Freemen Solar energy tech
Ecaz are WHOOHRN, prepearing for war - with us.

@75-277 We fighting over land, Ordos repel Harkonnens attack stack from Carthag block. We advance our stacks to next city. Shadam as for OB. Accepting, we at war now, later we will cancel. Killing Harks carryalls - we really dominating by air. We capture Halour Rock. Shaddam make peace with Harks, bastard.

 

[Slvynn]

Great, you guys were right.
Nice job on fomenting dissension and getting some good raiding in. If everyone hates us, we may as well make them hate each other too.

Looks like we're pretty well positioned.

I'm very glad to see that the Ordos AIs really do behave like mercenary scum.

Oh yeah, he is
And i just remembered what options we have
It is also being powned by harks, but not before we take Hark capital. Then it will be just matter of time. Full air siege as i call it. Air total - very nice way to strike, espessially combined with diiplomacy.