[SCENARIO] Dungeon Adventure - the 133rd K.R.A.G.

[cIV_khanh93]

as an adept i dont have the option to collect mana crystals. It says im not schooled in the arcane arts...
DEIT: Wel never mind! leaving htem b triggers another event allowing me to collect it.

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

I double checked this, and an adept Gorym should not be triggering more than one event upon entering a mana plot.

The onWarningPost code checks to see if a unit is of the adept class or not. It then triggers either the adept event or the mundane one.

Is it possible that you captured a slave on the mana plot? Because then the onWarningPost trigger would have found two of your units on the plot at the time of triggering: one slave and one Gorym the Specialist (Adept). In that case, both events would trigger.

I may see if I can pass the name of the unit to the events, so it it is more clear which unit is triggering it.

 

[cIV_khanh93]

yes. I captured a lsave on it. Do they have any use besides dungeon scouting? and WHY DOES HEALING COST 500 GOLD??

 

[cIV_khanh93]

... and you can heal naturally

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

yes. I captured a lsave on it. Do they have any use besides dungeon scouting? and WHY DOES HEALING COST 500 GOLD??

Good, that answers that question. I think I will try to add a unit identifier to those events.

Yes you can heal naturally, but only outside the dungeons. Imdelos' heal spell will remove diseased, withered, poisoned, and plagued effects, too. The price was just set at 500 to start with, although it does go down if you rescue Torek.

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

Mostly they are just exploration cannon fodder. I may later code in the ability to allow them to extract ore vein, much like golden hammers.

 

[Xenoborg]

Using slaves I found that you can get the same events several times at once: Mana crystals, chest loots, and even using staircases. I also used them to build roads on level one, and those roads showed up on level 2, now snaking through walls and over water.

 

[mtagge]

FANTASTIC start.

A few observations though.
1. There is no point in killing monsters, especially anything other than a goblin. You don't get anything after 100 XP for killing any monster. Perhaps if killing something gave gold based on it's STR, level, and XP and the gold on the floor was toned down.
2. The spell system seems a little out of place. Perhaps if you could buy spells in the shaft (so the adept would have something to spend money on). Maybe repurpose mana crystals for something else.
3. The rust spell in a trap is a HOSE JOB. Just spent 2500 gold on mithril weapons, outta luck!
4. Needs more promos and items, but I understand that it might go against the spirit of the competition. Buying poisoned arrows from the merchant would still be better. Also if special monsters could be spawned and killed for unique items that would be great!

So far it is a work of brilliance. Keep up the great work.

 

[mtagge]

Sorry for the double post. I thought of another way to advance the characters. It could work by having the character carry items he finds in the dungeon. Then when he is back at the base he could trade in a complete set in order to get specific promotions or advance his class.

For example
--trade in five wolf pelts and two goblin scout spears to have a upgrade from scout to hunter.
--trade in four orc bows and two specter souls for poisoned arrows.

Just some ideas.

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

Using slaves I found that you can get the same events several times at once: Mana crystals, chest loots, and even using staircases. I also used them to build roads on level one, and those roads showed up on level 2, now snaking through walls and over water.

SLAVES: If you mean that having more than one unit move onto a crystal or more than one unit be on a plot when a chest is opened, then yes. This is a problem native to the FfH2 code. The warning posts and tresure chests do not handle stacks very well. I have a few ideas about how to code around this, but they are beyond the limits set by the contest.

Of course, the contest ends tomorrow, so some type of fix shouldn't be too far away.

ROADS: Yes, I neglected to have the map switching code wipe all routes. I was originally going to use roads as "string" that characters could use to mark paths in the dungeon. These marked plots would project the players culture and allow better movement, as well as linking up resources. I abandoned that idea for the contest entry -- and sort of forgot that slaves can build roads.

For now, just don't build roads! Future revisions, if there are any, will probably add a new unit to take the place of slaves, or remove the route building abilty from slaves.

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

1. There is no point in killing monsters, especially anything other than a goblin. You don't get anything after 100 XP for killing any monster. Perhaps if killing something gave gold based on it's STR, level, and XP and the gold on the floor was toned down.

In further missions, the monsters will tend be members of enemy Civs, like the Horde. So gaining XP will still be possible. Also, I would like to add in some code that makes then drop gold or goodies in proportion to their power rating. But I didn't have time to put that in the releases so far.

2. The spell system seems a little out of place. Perhaps if you could buy spells in the shaft (so the adept would have something to spend money on). Maybe repurpose mana crystals for something else.

My original plan was to have the player buy spell ranks, like you suggest, and then have raw crystals available in the dungeon. When the player cast a spell, he would lose that spell's level of "channeling," which could be built back up with crystals. Or something like that. I wanted there to be an expendable material component to spells that would need to be managed carefully. (Being able to spew out level 3 summons every turn in a dungeon setting makes the game a push over.) The system in place now was a compromise that captured the material companent idea and allowed some flexibility in spell choice, too.

3. The rust spell in a trap is a HOSE JOB. Just spent 2500 gold on mithril weapons, outta luck!

Heh. That trap really blows, doesn't it? I believe I will tone it down. I was just using the default "rust" spell settings from regular FfH2, but I can see how it would be overpowering in a dungeon setting. I don't even think that bronze rusts in real life, does it? And mithril shouldn't, if you ask me. Perhap the rust trap will be a bane only to iron weapons?

4. Needs more promos and items, but I understand that it might go against the spirit of the competition. Buying poisoned arrows from the merchant would still be better. Also if special monsters could be spawned and killed for unique items that would be great!

Totally agree, but yes, you nailed it. Limits of the contest rules and all that.

 

[mtagge]

In further missions, the monsters will tend be members of enemy Civs, like the Horde. So gaining XP will still be possible. Also, I would like to add in some code that makes then drop gold or goodies in proportion to their power rating. But I didn't have time to put that in the releases so far.

I was able to get more than 100 XP (valor and great commander) it would go down 1 per turn until it hit 100. I could get the last level by killing two monsters so it would still be 101 for an entire turn.

 

[Azhral]

Awesome scenario, but a few issues.

I got a CTD once when moving a slave after he had been working on a road. Dunno what caused it, but lost the autosave, so meh.

Also, the crush traps seem to trigger very often, and are really powerful. Got hit 3 times, but managed to run to the surface to heal. Went straight back in, got hit again, and then died when a wolf chased me down while running back to the surface (had Heavy, so +120% strength with Combat V and rust.). Dunno the combat odds, but was annoying.

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

I got a CTD once when moving a slave after he had been working on a road. Dunno what caused it, but lost the autosave, so meh.

Yep. Known issue. Can't be easily addressed without getting into files that are off limits for the contest, though. The short term solution is to just not build roads. Eventually the ability to do so will be removed.

Also, the crush traps seem to trigger very often, and are really powerful. Got hit 3 times, but managed to run to the surface to heal. Went straight back in, got hit again, and then died when a wolf chased me down while running back to the surface (had Heavy, so +120% strength with Combat V and rust.). Dunno the combat odds, but was annoying.

Traps will be adjusted in future releases to balance the damage more, and to apply a wider variety of effects. There will always be a chance of entering a trap dense area, though, since placement is random.

I also hope to introduce the ability for scout units to "see" traps and secret doors. Adepts can do it right now with the floating eye spell though!

-----------------------

Thanks for your feedback, especially about game balance issues. The more that people play and tell me about their experiences, the better future releases can become!

 

[LDiCesare]

Am I right in believing that when you exit a dungeon (to the outside) and go back in, the level is regenerated (a la Angband)?
I think that the initial outfit light/mediuml/heavy should either not cost gold to buy later on or that there should be a clear warning it will cost you later if you come back. I had to restart a game to pick the one I wanted for the dungeon because I didn't have 100 gold after the first mission.

 

[Azhral]

Yep. Known issue. Can't be easily addressed without getting into files that are off limits for the contest, though. The short term solution is to just not build roads. Eventually the ability to do so will be removed.

Just started using slaves as pack mules, and chest poppers. When you change level, all your other units die, but drop their equipment. Also (pretty major bug), you can do things multiple times when you have a few units (I had two skellies and as many slaves as i could capture). So, you can open chests more than once, collect mana more than once, and move up and down the dungeon, more than once. It's a serious problem popping 5 chest rewards and getting 200 gold from a mana i don't want. Conversly, this doesn't seem to work if you want to pick the mana up. I got all the gold, but didn't get the promotion when I selected it.

Traps will be adjusted in future releases to balance the damage more, and to apply a wider variety of effects. There will always be a chance of entering a trap dense area, though, since placement is random.

Wasn't a problem once I found Death 1. Twincast gave me two skellies and they did everything.

Also, once, when I left the dungeon suddenly I rescued one of the prisoners, probably because I went past him on the dungeon level.

And you can leave signs everywhere (Alt-S) to show you everything. However, when moving level if a world sign (e.g Stairs) is to be placed on a plot with a player sign, the world sign won't show up.

Anyways, I finished it, and the biggest disappointment was that it was over
Excellent scenario.

 

[giddion]

I am still playing but have run into an annoying crash problem relating to the slaves.
- If I spread out too much and end my turn, it crashes.
- If I have slaves in my stack and a new slave appears on the screen when I end my turn, it crashes.
- Found the same problem listed above with multiple opens and uses with slaves in stack.

I love the magic system, its awesome.
- I would really like to have a magic shop or something where I can sell the crystals. Maybe only available to Arcane uses, maybe you have to buy a membership first for 1k.

Can I discard a selected circle of magic?

I would really like to be able to sell slaves too. Maybe a slave market? It should be on the surface somewhere, like a city/town. Maybe this should only be available to evil or neutral characters, good aligned characters should have to free them when found and get some other bonus that way.

 

[Lutefisk Mafia]

Hi all -

Thanks for all of the great feedback. I am still around, but am taking a bit of a break as I am wont to occassionally do.

I do want to mention that DA will under go a significant revision during the next release.

Foremost, the pesky crash-causing slave units are being replaced with a different unit.

Second, I will likely add a python restriction to unit movement that will forbid the players units from entering plots with another of the player's units. That's right: no player character stacking! This will completely eliminate the "multiple unit chest popping" bug and others like it. (I believe that this is an issue with the core FfH2 code, too, and may be fixed in future patches of FfH2.)

Aside from that -- not much going on right now.

But please do keep the feedback coming!

 

[Kael]

I had a blast playing this as a submission for the scenario contest. I haven't picked a winner yet because Im still playing my Prince of Darkness game. Never the less I wanted to provide some feedback.

Pros:

1. What you've done from a technical perspective is amazing. Switching out maps, going in and out of dungeons is incrediable. In Civ4 so much of the terrain is scenery, with this mod you really begin to feel like the terrain is a real world and each valley and mountain range may hide a labyrinth of dungeons and hidden locations.

2. Switching the units stats when in and out of dungeons is inspired. Its so well done that I didnt even notice it at first world exploration and dungeon exploration just felt different (as they should) and I didnt notice it was changes in my character that was making the real difference.

3. Its hard to really see this as a FfH scenario because I think you are creating a new game type here. Its as different from FfH as FfH is from Civ4. I list this in the pros column because I think this is a very good thing. You have a ton of potential to develop a new game type here, Im honored you are using FfH as the engine for it.

Cons:

1. There are significant pacing problems. At times the game is just slow. Civ4 and FfH handle this by having a wide variety of actions all going on at once (though even FfH runs into this at times). Turn based games need strategic options each turn, otherwise you should be playing real time and getting through it faster. I dont know the solution for this other than to offer that you should be very aggressive about cutting slow periods and getting right to the action.

2. Obviously a lot of RPG type functions have been ported into this model. In many cases that is brilliant (thats kinda the point), but it isn't enough to just simulate RPG sort of actions unless they are also fun in this format. Killing the flat tailed rats (that was funny btw), for example, is a great simulation of what RPGs have characters do. But it isnt very fun in this sort of a game.

I hope that makes sense. And that it comes across as amazingly positive feedback. I like providing critical feedback for people to consider and make their games better. But I dont want you to think that Im not increidably impressed with what you have done. Great work

 

[Thunder_Gr]

How can someone not want to play this scenario after such a review?