E3: Firaxis Announced 2nd Civ3 Expansion!

Originally posted by Jove
Arrrr, the fact that the press release doesn't mention anything about AI improvements probably means there aren't any.
Past experience has shown that if you announce everything that you want to put in a game but change the features later -- even when you put the little disclaimer about "features may change before shipment" at the bottom of the list -- that people will complain vociferously about anything that got dropped before shipment. So we start small and work our way up. Better to officially announce the stuff that's nearly certain to be in the game, and save the surprises for later. Besides... that's what press tours and preview articles are for. ;)

Not that I want to be overly negative... (what does FUD mean, anyway?)
Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt. Refers to the tactic of spreading a mixture of believable disinformation and tough-to-answer questions to undermine a person's position. You hear about it more in the corporate software world. IBM was supposedly the lead practitioner "back in the day". It usually works like this:

"Oh, so you're thinking of switching off of our system and going with a competitor's? Good for you. You're really sure about that decision, huh? Did you look at their financials? How long do you think they'll be in business? Who else is using their system... what, you don't know? Hmmm, do they have forward compatibility for the latest set of Java libraries endorsed by these three independent consortiums? No? What about their upgrade plans and roadmap... they've told you nothing? I suppose they didn't tell you about the problems we've seen with their implementation... Well... if I were you, I'd reconsider your decision."

Best,
Jeff Foley
Atari
 
Jeff, nice of you to drop in this thread as well.

Looks like I'm not the only one asking for improved AI.

You probably know the answer to whether the AI will be improved on not and you're just choosing to not tell us :). In anycase, do pass the word to Firaxis and let them know that we'd like to soo some meatier upgrades on the AI front compared to the more minor ones in PTW.
 
Originally posted by dexters
Jeff, nice of you to drop in this thread as well.

Looks like I'm not the only one asking for improved AI.

You probably know the answer to whether the AI will be improved on not and you're just choosing to not tell us :). In anycase, do pass the word to Firaxis and let them know that we'd like to soo some meatier upgrades on the AI front compared to the more minor ones in PTW.

I really appreciated the improved AI in PTW. I saw changes and especially the barbarians are much much better (and useful :confused: I mean you do understand what I mean, right ?:crazyeye: ).
 
I think the AI needs a whole lot more variety. And I dunno whether other people have it but the AIs in my games always choose the peaceful govs even when it says that they prefer warmonger govs. Its SOOOO annoying. They always make peace like 2 turns after they declare war.
 
Nah. It's just the smart decision to go democracy or republic when they are not at war. The AI already shoot themselves in the foot enough times with their civ specific build priorities.

And if they always make peace in 2 turns, either you are really good or your are playing at too easy a difficulty level.

I do agree with you on one thing though. Variety.

In attack and defense, the AI needs to be able to perform a variety of tactics, instead of the same old blowing their load on attacking the weakest point, and then doing nothing substantive when all their offensive units are killed off... that includes NOT moving their defensive units in their backline cities to the front to reinforce cities.
 
Arrrr, I want to clarify what I said about the AI in reference to yet another expansion pack in, what, a year? 8 months? It requires taking a look at the history of the Civ series. 10 years ago or so, this guy Sid, a board game enthusiast, thought it would be fun to put his favorite game into a computer format. Long story short, out comes Civ I, which was some kind of hit. There wasn't really anything else like it at the time. So Sid figures he's onto something, he comes up with some new ideas, puts a team together, and when he gets to the point that he has a Whole New Game, he releases the thing, bam, Civ II is born, gamers all over the world get really excited about it, etc. Compare Civ to Civ II... they both have certain format and conceptual things in common, but let's face it, Civ II is about an order of magnitude greater than Civ I in terms of advancement and what not. Hey, not that Civ is without charm, the point is Civ II really is an order of magnitude greater. Then years go by, SMAC and that civil war simulation come out, which I never played, but as I understand it they were widely accepted as Completely Different Games. Sure, they again had certain format and concept similarities, but you see my point. Then, once the team had put toghether enough ideas to come out with yet another Whole New Game, they start releasing information about Civ III. Remember the months before it arrived, all the screenshots, all the discussion about the culture aspects, the new victory conditions, the new civs with their attribute aspects, there was all kinds of things to say about it to get people excited, and rightly so, because again, while it has certain format and conceptual things in common with Civ II, I think everyone agrees, it's really a Whole New Game.
A Whole New Game.
It didn't just take Civ II and add a unit here, a civ there, and call it good. The thing had an entirely different look, entirely new aspects that changed the gameplay approach altogether in some ways. The scope and depth of it were so much greater that it was, well, another Order of Magnitude greater than Civ II. Game enthusiasts were just about jumping out of their pants when it came out. And ok, it didn't take long to notice that the Civ III AI does things fairly regularly that are more than just bad moves, they're DUMB moves, they're pointless, Idiotic moves. But hey, Civ III was a Whole New Game, the learning curve is long, it has the kind of depth that, for what it is, people are really glad Civ III came along. The AI, well, lets face it, computers as we know them haven't been around too long, games like this are still in their infancy really, they tend to be quirky, Civ III is no exception. But at least it's a Whole New Game. A really fun one, too.
But now, correct me if I'm wrong please, hasn't the company that produces the Civ series changed hands? Listen people, like in Old Testament times, like Moses' plagues of frogs and locusts, America today is plagued with a blight of Corporate Wankers. Yes my friends, probably as a punishment for America's greed and artlessness, Corporate Wankers have multiplied like crazy out of the country's warped values. What are they? Well, they don't pound nails or drive delivery trucks, they don't cook meals or serve them, they don't make and recieve the phone calls in offices or hook up networks or fix the power lines or write songs or pick up the trash or do anything that's actually worth a couple bucks to you or me. And they sure don't come up with ideas for, develop and program Whole New Games. No, Corporate Wankers, while they may have acquired a lot of money somewhere, don't really do anything but keep their eyes peeled for 'viable franchises' and 'established brands' and 'loyal followings'. They check out stuff like p/e ratios and market trends and the like. When they see something they like, they go in and buy up the whole thing. Then they take an attitude with everyone involved, now that they're in charge, telling them 'Y'know guys, if you followed a really smart business model, we could put out product every 10 months, what with our name recognition and franchise viability and all. This thing you've created can be... Repackaged... and sold again, with enough hype, with enough press releases. And then, y'know what, it can be... Repackaged again... and sold again. Quit fooling around doing all that work, let's start selling'
And so here we are. Remember Play the World? C'mon, it was a buggy mess for one. And for two, if you subtract everything that you could download right off this webpage you're reading right now, how was it different from Civ III? Medieval Warriors? The Internet? Warriors that burn roads? Puhhh...leeeeze! It looked the same, the music is the same, it played the same. The multiplayer seemed to not live up to expectations. Even after multiple patches. It's Civ III in a different box, sold to you once again by Corporate Wankers.
And now here they come again. Conquests. It'll have new civs, trebuchets, ok, One new victory condition, and what, One new diplomatic option. C'mon folks, do we see what's going on here? When I criticized the AI of Civ III, comparing it to a simulation of all the lead poisoned idiot leaders of history, well, that's meant to apply to any future Civ product that uses the same AI. And how does Atari respond? "We don't want to promise features that we can't deliver. But it'll be bug free!!!" Since when did being bug free become a selling point for a software product?!??!?
So come on, Firaxis, let's lose the lid on the details of this 'expansion pack' you're putting out. Don't give me a political answer. YES or NO: Is the AI in this new game overhauled and greatly improved, or not? Is it tweaked a little, or an Order of Magnitude improved? Is this going to be a Whole New Game, or can I get the new units and luxuries by playing GOTM21? You don't want to promise features you can't deliver??? What? Have your newcorporate wanker masters put you on a product release schedule that bears no relationship to when you have a Whole New Game to release, or not? Are you just going to release...something... by a certain target date, and whatever you have time to do by then is what will be included, and that's why you don't want to get in depth about what is really in it? Please!

So look, I've enjoyed the e-company of my fellow civ fanatics in the past year and a half. We've got all kinds of people involved with this thing on-line now, sort of a microcosm of society really, and I know the kind of enthusiasm that surrounds the real McCoy, a Whole New Civ game. If corporate wankers are going to butt in and turn the thing into a Widget. Yes, a widget for mass production, they're gonna get Ripped Off, and it is going to spoil the whole thing. I don't want to see this happen. I think others will echo me when I say: I DEMAND MORE PRODUCT! If it takes 3 years to develop a Whole New Game, please don't release anything until its ready. If the new scenarios are really that cool, put them on the net, hey, maybe charge $5 subscriptions for it, but don't turn Civ into another Widget, ok?
 
Ok this just shows that I need to get out of the Creations section more often. I had not heard this was comeing.

As soon as I saw this and I got back up after passing out from excitement (how sad is that ive become a true Civ Fanatic) I had to learn more. And now I cant wait for it to go on sale however I want them to do a GREAT job and not rush it out to stores before it is ready. So I will have to hold back my excitement.

Man I hope they made Helicopters able to pick people up.
 
Some people are beta testing it. They accepted around 400 beta testers so they will probably do a good job with this one. :)
 
id like to see some kind of recignizor. (what i mean is if you have a huge empire and the ai has like 3 cities and you demand tribute they wont say something like: mighty babylon will not give in to extortion)
(and they will comply)

one can only hope.
 
Originally posted by Stone Wolf


ROFL!:lol:

It's not the $30.00 that is in question here, it's what you get for your $30.00.

Stop at a Lube and Filter place and get your oil changed for $19.95 and later find out they used reprosessed oil that broke down in half the time. I'm sure you'll be waiting with baited breath to return for your next oil change at 1500 miles instead of 3000.

What a rediculous statement. It's not the money, it's not getting what is advertized on the box that is the cause of so much ire.

Half price sale on Coke Classic 2 litre bottle, only problem is you only get 24 ounces.
 
I must admit that PTW fell short of the box description. New units but none of them in any scenarios included in the game. While I like changing the game to my needs I must admit that I shouldn't have to. And the units were not even complete. No pedia info or icons what's with that :crazyeye: . Several people I know have stopped playing Civ all together because of the need to mod it to use the units and due to the extremely difficult install. I had to remove fonts to make it work again I say what is with that?????

I must admit I look forward to the new expansion however I am concerned, yet hopetamistic :) .

I just want them to make helicopters be able to pick people up.
 
You know one thing must be said and that is that this game maker game player comunication that is going on is great. To my knowlage this is the only one of its kind EVER. Its nice as fanatics to have a say, if even a small one, in what is to come for the Civ game that we have become so addicted to.

Thanks Atari :goodjob:
 
Don't the lenghty turns bother anyone? I mean, the first turn playing on a large map with 16 civs takes as long as a later game turn in Civ2 --if not longer (and thats on a higher end system). Unit graphics are nice but having the that absurd pausing after each unit moves...

Conquests will not change this (obviously because it can't as this would require a new game engine).
If this new expansion is going to be successful, it will have to improve significantely on PTW.

From the Editing point of view, the game needs a graphics editor (like CIV2:FW/MGE).
[Making it easy for players to create their own units is essential from a marketing point of view considering its popularity in Civ2.]

Less hard-coded information would make the game more flexible especially where the AI is concerned.

*** I have a question: What is Civ3's main objective, Single player, scenarios/modding or multiplayer? Which has priority?
 
Originally posted by yoshi
Don't the lenghty turns bother anyone? I mean, the first turn playing on a large map with 16 civs takes as long as a later game turn in Civ2 --if not longer (and thats on a higher end system). Unit graphics are nice but having the that absurd pausing after each unit moves...

Conquests will not change this (obviously because it can't as this would require a new game engine).
If this new expansion is going to be successful, it will have to improve significantely on PTW.

From the Editing point of view, the game needs a graphics editor (like CIV2:FW/MGE).
[Making it easy for players to create their own units is essential from a marketing point of view considering its popularity in Civ2.]

Less hard-coded information would make the game more flexible especially where the AI is concerned.

*** I have a question: What is Civ3's main objective, Single player, scenarios/modding or multiplayer? Which has priority?

They can change it if they can figure out how to make the AI fortify its offensive units so they don’t run around. That is why you wait so long between turns.

To your last question:
Whichever you like to play! :D
 
Back
Top Bottom