Eastern civ in development

[Ahwaric]

The idea was developed when talking about adding some eastern flavour to Sidar/including Khadi. The idea was dropped because of too many changes required, but asian civ could be nice addition.
Big thanks to arkham4269!

I am quite sleepy now, so will only brefly summarize cureent ideas.

Name: Dao

Civ trait: agnostic?

Leaders:
same. I want at least one for every gender:
one more commander type (would woman be right?)
the other natural philosopher/taoist/monk type

Main theme: Elemenatlism
Elemets: earth, water, air, fire, metal, aether (=mind?)
Elementals spawned the way Sheaim get additional troops, dependant on the mana owned
I do not want to limit unit building though.
Elemental promotions: a bit in line with animal totems, but without "adoption" - unit starts with affinity to one of the elements, or can acquire it in a special building (pagan temple?)

Unique Units:
Elementalist (Druid UU), but more focused on elements than on plants and animals

Unique Buildings:
Elemental temple (Pagan Temple) - elemental promotions for units build in the city, can train if unit has none

That is it for now. I am not that good in eastern lore, so any corrections and ideas welcomed

 

[arkham4269]

Oh great, just create a place for the Asian flavored Civ after I manually create one.

UPDATE: Oh good, looks like you already deleted it. Thanks!

 

[Ahwaric]

Started writing it when you did not yet create yours - only thing I can say to explain myself...
Anyway, time to bed for me. No more threads for now.

Edit:

UPDATE: Oh good, looks like you already deleted it. Thanks!

That power is not given to me. Will have to wait until it dies.
Well, unless you want to take over the creation of the civ completly, in that case it might be better to let this one die. But I hope we can work on this one together...

 

[Seon]

I am a Korean . I can help you if you need me. Now to dig up ideas... I assume you would find ninja graphics for them right?

Ideas: what about a commander unit that can bestow special formation to units? The Chinese were well reknowned for setting troops at weird formations to draw in the enemy and quickly surround them and kill them. For what I heard, there was a general who trapped a massive enemy army by positioning rocks at an obscure formation.

 

[xienwolf]

Heh heh. One of the leaders should speak only in Haiku to give counter-point to Perpentach's insane rhyme game


Tons of potential for an Eastern style Civ. So the main thing I would say is: Narrow your focus sufficiently that there is room for a few more eastern style Civs should it prove enjoyable enough (ie - don't take from Korean, Chinese AND Japanese and meld them all together. Choose an aspect and focus on it, ditching the "it's eastern!" mentality in favor of just following the chosen aspect once it is selected.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

well we if we follow china, it could come to worship CotD

 

[sputnik323]

If there were to be another civ, I would want it to be more than just Asian graphics and names. One thing that may make it more unique is a focus to create specialized combat units that take much longer but are very well trained. Like Shaolin Monks or the Samurai which train their whole life for combat. War for many Asian cultures was seen as an art form, something to be mastered gracefully. There probably needs to be a lot of creative ideas to put this one together. The good thing about Mechanos and the Scions is that they are really unique. This civ should be equally unique.

One idea just to throw out there could be based of the mystical warriors in Chinese movies and Japanese Anime. Kind of a blend between fighting and magic... however, I don't know how to translate this into the game quite yet and make take some thinking.

P.S. I like what you already have! Elemental affinity like totems sound awesome.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

Asia is big. I think we first need to decide wich part we're gonna focus on.

I think Japan would have my vote, followed by china

 

[Opera]

Maybe some units (unique, that is) capable of choosing an "aura" from the different element; it would be as a promotion. For example, Aura of Flames (Fire Mana) could damage attacking opponent, reduce water/ice damage; Aura of Dust (Earth Mana) could blind opponents (see the bBlind tags introduced by xienwolf). Of course, choosing one way would disable the other ways. Like the Knight Order. Moreover, the benefits would be more and more useful, rather than only obtainable at a certain level. You could choose Aura of Flames for the first prom but it would not have the same effects as, say, Aura of Flames III.

While this idea seems good (to me at least) for an elemental-based civ, I don't know if it has something of an asian civ.

As for the leader, I have at least an idea of portrait for a woman commander type. I already shown it in the previous thread: http://www.conceptart.org/forums/showpost.php?p=1630883&postcount=65. Actually, it's supposed to be the result of the merging of victorian and japanese cultures. I think she looks commander and asian. It wouldn't be difficult to come with some story. I can do that (or not, that's your call Ahwaric).

Edit: Damn, I just saw what you said, Ahwaric, about "elemental promotions". I should read more carefully...

 

[Tayschrenn]

I think a civilization like Cambodia or Thailand or India would be more interesting, China is so overdone

 

[A Golden Dragon]

this one looks slightly more asian:
http://koeiwarriors.co.uk/downloads/wallpapers/sw2/SamuraiWarriors2Wallpaper1024x768-19.jpg

I can also help on storywriting, perhaps make a thread for everything (note everything, not just on the asian civ) that needs text, and where anyone can submit a story/pedia entry, and ahwaric can pick what he likes

 

[Seon]

You took that pic from Dynasty warriors... Since that is more warrior type, what about the philosophical, and perhaps cunning type? Time to search the interweb...

Found it ^_^, since I have no idea how to host images, here is a url to the site I found the images Here

 

[Nor'easter]

If you have Civ 3, check out the Civ 3 Warhammer Mod, which has several Asian-flavored civs: Nippon, Cathay, Ungols, Ind, Araby. You might find some ideas there that you like. (I recommended the Civ 3 Warhammer Mod rather than Civ 4, since the Civ 4 mod is still a work in progress, as I understand it, while the Civ 3 mod is a finished product.)

And congratulations on getting your own forum!

 

[Tayschrenn]

I like to volunteer for storywriting as well

 

[arkham4269]

If there were to be another civ, I would want it to be more than just Asian graphics and names. One thing that may make it more unique is a focus to create specialized combat units that take much longer but are very well trained. Like Shaolin Monks or the Samurai which train their whole life for combat. War for many Asian cultures was seen as an art form, something to be mastered gracefully. There probably needs to be a lot of creative ideas to put this one together. The good thing about Mechanos and the Scions is that they are really unique. This civ should be equally unique.

As I mentioned on the main thread, if this Civ is taken from the FF Kahdi, one needs to remember that like the Sheaim, much of their units will come through the gates.

However, if one goes with my idea of the gate creatures being tied to mana instead of buildings, they would have to be fairly 'middling' in strength since the only change in which units you'd get is which mana you have.

The problem is that because the creatures would not be tied to buildings, there would be no way to let newer units be nastier since they would require the buildings which can only be built after late game techs become available.

So instead of the Sheaim and the FF-Kadhi which would have increasingly stronger gate units, the Tetsujin (Japanese for 'philosopher') would have access to a unit stronger than an axeman/swordsman but weaker than champions with special abilities tied to what element they are.

Like I mentioned in before, these elementals could get nastier with XP but still leave the Tetsujin with no later tough units. As I suggested earlier, instead of having unlimited champions and the like, I think limiting them to 4 or so would be better. However, I agree with sputnik323 that while you wouldn't have many, they would be more specialized. Perhaps being created with the option of some of the promotions normally you could only get through some of the academies.

Plus, if this Civ is based of of the FF-Kahdi, remember that civ has some of that nastiest mages in the game since they get created with more experience. Of course one might also change that and make them more like the Scions mages in that they are better in direct combat. Yet I like the whole nasty mages with their hordes of elementals backed up by tough warrior-monks or nasty samurai heroes.

 

[arkham4269]

Just a reminder, while the idea is to create a Asian flavored Civ, I'm still pushing for a tweaked version of the FF-Kahdi.

Why? One, I like the back story of Kahdi (whose name will need to be changed) is tempted by power/knowledge by one of the Angels and then later in the game has to make a choice between Good and Evil (Or more to the point, knowledge or greed). That fits well with the whole Fall from Heaven theme.

Secondly, I like the mages and the gates. However I don't like the FF-Kahdi gate creatures and think more kami-flavored elementals are more interesting. Plus they don't have to be 'gates' but could be considered shrines.

As I've said before, I seem them having ashigaru spearmen for warriors, basic Asian swordsmen for the axemen/swordsmen unit, archers & longbowmen and the two basic horse units, but then have to rely mostly on their heroes, mages and elementals later in the game.

Another idea for the replacement of the later units is instead of just building one type of unit, perhaps one could have a range of units in that they could have X amount of specialty units (depending on world/map size) but they have different classes available. So you could build samurai hero, ronin hero, 'super' ninja, warrior-monk (sort of a priest/medic unit) and maybe horse-lord. So depending on your game and what you need, you could build what you want, but only so many.

Plus I'm sure certain of the above would need certain buildings to be able to be built.

Plus, there needs to be an event that creates a super ronin unit that has the animation of a ronin pushing a wooden baby carriage!

 

[Valkrionn]

The problem is that because the creatures would not be tied to buildings, there would be no way to let newer units be nastier since they would require the buildings which can only be built after late game techs become available.

Actually, I think it would be possible to have a basic elemental for each mana-type, and then a more powerful version(s) unlocked at a certain tech. All that the unit would require would be their tech, and the specific mana-type they rely on. After all, the spawning code would have to be handled in python... Should be relatively easy to put in a check to see if you have the mana, and then another to see if you have the tech or not to determine whether or not it should spawn the advanced or basic elemental. I'd stick with just the one upgrade, though... Otherwise it could be needlessly complex. Maybe just allow them to upgrade at Sorcery, which is roughly comparable with Iron Working.

 

[xienwolf]

You could also base the type of unit you get off the amount of mana which you control. As well as initial stats/promotions.


Elementalism Mana Types: Grant access to specific unit lines (Air = Recon, Earth = Melee, Fire = Archery, Ice = Siege, Water = Mounted). The more you have the better the type of spawn from that set

Divination Mana Types: Grants enhancements to starting promotions for the units. (Law = Command, Life = Medic, Mind = Drill, Spirit = Combat, Sun = Sentry). Multiple copies of a mana type granting additional ranks in the promotion line (3 Sun Mana switching to Perfect Sight since Sentry III doesn't exist and each should offer at LEAST 3)

Alteration Mana Types: Grant enhancements to starting stats of the units. (Body = Defense Strength, Creation = Movement, Enchantment = Sight Range, Force = Attack Strength, Nature = Withdrawal Chance). Stacks nicer than Divination since you are making modifications to the unit directly, but doesn't offer the chance of opening up advanced promotions for your early XP spending pleasure.

Necromancy Mana Types: Modifies Spawn Appearance rules. Normal spawning is just random chance. (Chaos = chance to spawn in owned tiles when entered by an enemy unit (kinda like Treants work), Death = Chance to spawn when you kill an enemy unit, Dimensional = Chance to spawn when another gate unit spawns, Entropy = Chance to spawn when one of your units dies, Shadow = Chance to spawn when Diplomatic Relations shift (ie - Might spawn a couple stacks when war is declared)). Chances and/or quantity modified by number of the mana controlled.

Metamagic: Enhances Rate of spawn appearance (for all allowed spawn methods based on Necro Mana). Or Counts fractionally along with each other mana type, specific fraction set on a per-Mana Type basis since for some it would be overpowered to use a 2-1 exchange, and on others it would be pointless to use a 5-1 exchange.

 

[Jabie]

If your heading down the agnosticism route, why not go for ancestor worship? Seen in this light, Spirit Guide seems like a fairly natural option. Their equivalent of a Monument could grant it automatically.

Some Eastern philosophies have five elements - the fifth being Void. This gives one possible source for backstory: this Civ were travellers between dimensions who were drawn to Erebus like moths to the flame, because they can sense the deaths in the forthcoming apocalypse and wish to venerate them. A world spell that feeds off this might grants all your troops +1XP per 10 AC or part thereof.

 

[A Golden Dragon]

i just read a story i like nice one jabie