Egypt outlaws 'Female Circumcision'

[Phlegmak]

I thought FGM was outlawed long ago in Egypt.

 

[holiday_hawk]

and i was more of asking if it was legal last week.

Oh, I'm sure it was or if it wasn't it was one that cops looked the other way on

i think it is usually done at a younger age. may depend on regions.

"Things Fall Apart" takes places in Nigeria so maybe in other countries it does, or they might have started doing it younger more recently since the book was about the 1800s

 

[LucyDuke]

*annoyance* Alright, how's this for knocking off the 'Euphemism'? F*** you, I'll call it whatever I want.

Yes, it was legal before and I imagine if there were some ancient cultural practice of cutting the toes off people, then that would be legal and have to be addressed.

I understand you're new here, but flaming is against forum rules. "F*** you" is flaming. You might want to knock that off.

I'm surprised that you think that sort of euphemism is okay, actually. If you oppose the practice, you must realize how absurd and damaging it is to call it "circumcision". I wasn't attacking you personally, I was attacking the way FGM is trivialized.

Why did Egypt not previously have laws against cutting off parts of people's bodies? That seems like a pretty important law to have.

 

[CheScott]

I understand you're new here, but flaming is against forum rules. "F*** you" is flaming. You might want to knock that off.

I'm surprised that you think that sort of euphemism is okay, actually. If you oppose the practice, you must realize how absurd and damaging it is to call it "circumcision". I wasn't attacking you personally, I was attacking the way FGM is trivialized.

Why did Egypt not previously have laws against cutting off parts of people's bodies? That seems like a pretty important law to have.

F***ing report me, then.

There is a difference between Euphemism and trying to avoid a pointless debate about what the correct term is, which is what I was trying to achieve. But, leave it to the pseudo-liberal thought police to run around telling everyone what they can and cannot say.

As I already told you, I am fully aware of what 'it is'. But I am also aware that there some in this world that believe there is justification in doing so, and they have every right to believe whatever they want. The important part is that they cannot preform the act, any longer, regardless of their beliefs.

Well, darn. You're right. Let's all be really irritated by anyone that has any values besides our own, and then trivialize the matter when they do something that is extremely progressive within their own culture. That's a really great way to further the cause.

God forbid anyone be any different than you and damn them if they try to be.

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[Narz]

Good for Egypt.

I wonder when male circumcision (for non-consenting adults) will be banned.

 

[ohcrapitsnico]

I understand you're new here, but flaming is against forum rules. "F*** you" is flaming. You might want to knock that off.

I'm surprised that you think that sort of euphemism is okay, actually. If you oppose the practice, you must realize how absurd and damaging it is to call it "circumcision". I wasn't attacking you personally, I was attacking the way FGM is trivialized.

Why did Egypt not previously have laws against cutting off parts of people's bodies? That seems like a pretty important law to have.

You're right Lucy I've stopped thinking of this practice as circumcision over mutilation because the manner in which they are done and how aptly mutilation fits the bill for this practice.

Just because you outlaw rape and murder doesn't mean its going to magically stop. What makes you think this will end when its socially acceptable on all strata of society?

I call the OP nonsense until a linkis provided and I think FGM is already outlawed in Egypt. Regardless there will be no public outcry either way and women will continued to be butchered for some time to come.

 

[Cheezy the Wiz]

In a bold move to address a highly contentious topic, Egyptian law makers have outlawed the practice of 'Female Circumcision'. For those unfamiliar, this is a ritualized genital mutilation practice in which the clitoris is cut off and there by reduces or eliminates the possibility of sexual pleasure. It is often claimed that such practices have valid medical justification, the World Health Organization has found such claims to be unsubstantiated. While it is a cultural practice in cultures world wide, it is most heavily used in Eastern and sub-Saharan African countries.

While far from eliminating the practice, this is a great stride for the cause. It is estimated that in most of Egypt 90-100% of the female population have been the victim of this barbaric and senseless practice. With such prevelance, one can only imagine the amount of public resistance.

Egyptian leaders should be commended for taking such a bold stand and encouraged to impress into the minds of their people the importance of this law and it's medical justification.

It was already outlawed in 2007 thanks to Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch pressure. This isn't going to stop a practice that >90% of the country participates in, though, it's just going to make the procedure even more dangerous, and we'll see even more deaths and medical tragedies resulting from this, rather than an actual solution to the problem of genital mutilation.

So in conclusion, this is not a good thing at all, rather, it is a very bad thing for Egyptian women.

When the conservative clerics of Al-Azhar, or the leaders of organizations like al-Gama'a al-Islamiyya come out and say that genital mutilation is un-Islamic and wrong, will we see a decrease in the numbers of female genital mutilations.

 

[LucyDuke]

F***ing report me, then.

I did. I mean, I'm over it. But it's against the rules. We gotta play by the rules, y'know? Keeps things civil.

There is a difference <snip> further the cause.

Wow. Did I really upset you that much? You should probably relax. There's no fight to be had here.

God forbid anyone be any different than you and damn them if they try to be.

Yup, that's it! DAMN those people who are different than me!

 

[Ecofarm]

FBut I am also aware that there some in this world that believe there is justification in doing so, and they have every right to believe whatever they want.

So noone is ever wrong?

 

[brennan]

1. Circumcision is a terrible term for this! It's not circumcision, it's mutilation. Knock it off with the euphemism.

Er, male circumcision involves chopping a bit off too. How is this a euphemism?

Personally I find both practices repellant.

 

[CheScott]

So noone is ever wrong?

Everyone is free to believe whatever they want. If you want to believe that means, 'no one is ever wrong', then you are free to believe that.

While I am free to assume that you are either completely unfamiliar with the English language or are stretching to interpret my words as meaning something they clearly do not.

People have the right to believe that Black people are inferior. I don't know if that's right or wrong, but I know I don't agree with it and am glad that there are laws to protect people from those beliefs being acted on. I disagree with things from an intellectual stand-point, not because I choose to arbitrarily assign good or evil traits to them.

Whatever the case, if you are going to attempt to manipulate my words to mean whatever is most convenient to your argument, I recommend you do a better job.

 

[CheScott]

I did. I mean, I'm over it. But it's against the rules. We gotta play by the rules, y'know? Keeps things civil.

Wow. Did I really upset you that much? You should probably relax. There's no fight to be had here.

Yup, that's it! DAMN those people who are different than me!

I am very careful in the way I use my words

It upsets me when someone comes in and imbecilicly infers that, despite the fact that I posted this topic, I lack some kind of comprehension of just how vulgar and cruel this practice is. I am sorry that women's rights is a hot-button issue, with me, but I do wish you'd take it more seriously.

Now see? It isn't very nice when someone suggests that you do not take something seriously, when you clearly do, is it? It sort of smacks of arrogance and self-righteousness, doesn't it? I'm willing to bet you'd prefer if others didn't behave that way towards you and, to be sure, I'd prefer if you didn't.

As you have already pointed out, you have an issue with people who phrase things differently than you would have. To me, this suggests you are a great deal less tolerant than your sarcasm would lead a person to believe.

The reason I said 'Female Circumcision' is because of something called 'Tact', which it seems you are sorely lacking. I recommend you try it. You will probably hear less 'F*** you's and spend less time explaining rules which people are already aware of.

EDIT: Oppsy-doodle! Double post. Never smoke in the middle of a post that you are meaning to copy and paste at some point, kids.

Here is your all-important link. I hope that makes all the pointless and unrelated things I have said valid, since they are clearly not without a link to validate my personal character. Jeez. http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/babylonbeyond/2008/06/after-weeks-of.html

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[holy king]

Er, male circumcision involves chopping a bit off too. How is this a euphemism?

Personally I find both practices repellant.

circumcision
c.1175, from L. circumcisus, pp. of circumcadere "to cut around," from circum "around" + caedere "to cut"

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=circumcision

"circum" means not just "around", but "around in a circle".

so that's technically.

practically using the term is playing down how severe the mutilation that is female "circumcision" is.

 

[Arwon]

Male circumcision sucks, hacking off 40% of someone's most sexually sensitive skin at birth is just weird. But it doesn't compare to FGM. There's a pretty good case for thinking of 'female circumcision' as a trivialising euphemism.

-----

The dodgy relativist/anti-relativist arguments on this topic are always pretty crude, they easily break down into people arguing past each other against two strawmen. We've already had "so nobody is ever wrong?" anti-relativist outrage and people implicitly saying criticising FGM is culturally imperialist, and it's only page two. Regardless, here's the simple version of why this argument is dumb:

One does not have to believe in absolute morality to oppose things in other cultures, because all cultures are heterogeneous, and opposing FGM simply means siding with certain elements within the culture against others within it. Kinda like the fact that purity balls are . .. .. .. .ing creepy doesn't mean I hate or oppose everything American.

Similarly, FGM is not the rhetorical stick for anti-relativists to bludgeon people with that anti-relativists seem to think it is.

 

[Tee Kay]

As I said earlier somewhere on these forums, outlawing FGM is likely to be counter-productive. Now those who practices FGM is going to have to operate illegally, with high risk of blunder, infection, shock and death. And there will be a lot who would want to continue FGM. Centuries-old customs don't get eradicated with a signed piece of paper.

 

[Pannonius]

This is a great news. I just hope that this decision will be rigorously implemented.
BTW. Circumcission should be banned also.

 

[holy king]

As I said earlier somewhere on these forums, outlawing FGM is likely to be counter-productive. Now those who practices FGM is going to have to operate illegally, with high risk of blunder, infection, shock and death. And there will be a lot who would want to continue FGM. Centuries-old customs don't get eradicated with a signed piece of paper.

it's usually done in secret with shards of glass or things like that anyway...

 

[Simple Simon]

Great! Now let's hope the law enforcement authorities act accordingly. Genital mutilation is one of the vilest forms of subjugation out there.

 

[Tee Kay]

it's usually done in secret with shards of glass or things like that anyway...

Well, from what I know the practitioners (forgive my euphemism) are quite experienced people. But the point is, laws will do little to really stop the practice. I know it's annoying, but real change would need to come with time and change in culture.

 

[Grisu]

It upsets me when someone comes in and imbecilicly infers that, despite the fact that I posted this topic, I lack some kind of comprehension of just how vulgar and cruel this practice is. I am sorry that women's rights is a hot-button issue, with me, but I do wish you'd take it more seriously.

the problem is not whether or not you lack comprehension, but the comprehension levels of those reading your posts. 'Circumsicion' implies to people who don't know a lot about the topic that 'female circumsicion' is similar to male circumcision when the two are completely different. As such you'll get reactions like: oh well, I'm circumcized as well, wasn't that bad....

The reason I said 'Female Circumcision' is because of something called 'Tact', which it seems you are sorely lacking. I recommend you try it. You will probably hear less 'F*** you's and spend less time explaining rules which people are already aware of.

it's rather ironic when someone who takes refuge to the F-word at the slightest cirticism tries to lecture others about 'tact', don't you think.

on topic: outlawing it is a step in the right decision, now they need to actually prosecute those that violate this law.

Circumcission should be banned also.

voluntary male circumsicion as well?