[Vanilla] Eliminating Air Defenses

[internetuserpi]

hi,
I’m trying to bomb an enemy city into submission, but my stealth bombers keep getting shot down by interceptors. Neither of us has a tech advantage. I’m wondering what the best way to eliminate these air defenses is. I've been trying to use overwhelming numbers of stealth bombers, but I’m running out of planes. Links to other threads would also be appreciated if there's a guide to this I've missed.
Thanks

 

[WeirdoJoker]

I've never had a serious problem with interceptors, but I'd be interested in learning more about this myself. Is there a way to defend against intercepting fighters/jet fighters/stealth fighters?

I also do not believe I've ever had a game last long enough to use stealth planes, with maybe one exception I have trouble recalling, so that hasn't really come up for me.

 

[justanick]

I’m wondering what the best way to eliminate these air defenses is.

The best approach is probably to avoid air engagement.

Simply use your land based artillery. The modern radar artillery that becomes available with robotics has 16 bombardement with frequency of 3. So they are essentially as strong as stealth bombers, but cost only 120 shields instead of 240. Land based artillery will not help against air units, but it helps taking the city and thereby destroy all air units there.

If taking the city is not an option, than lesser alternatives are possibly, but not necessarily sensible.

You can use ships to bombard the city. After destroying the coastal fortress and damaging all ships in the city to 1 HP your ships will bombard all the planes in the city and actually destroy them. Bombardement against air units is lethal. You donnot need air units to destroy air units.

Cruise Missiles are a different category. They ignore the coastal fortress and also destroy ships first and air units second.


Another but probably not adviseable approach is to use air units to bombard the city. As you have probably noticed already air units will hit air units first. For success you need to be sure of success. Use a spy to spy the city, so you know what awaits you. Only initiate engagement if you are sure of success. By initiating the bombardement you are committed to destroy every air unit before you end the turn. Your stealth fighters bombard first. The donnot do much damage, but they serve as relatively cheap damage soaks. They have the highest defence value of 6. Once every intercepter and jet fighter in the city has engaged your air force you move on to using steal bombers. They will not be attacked because each enemy plane can only attack once per turn. So now you can destroy the remaining aircrafts safely.


In 2013 i tested how bombardements against cities work. The knowledge derived then helps to assess situations like yours.

https://www.civforum.de/showthread.php?86307-Bombardierung-von-St%E4dten-in-C3C-1-22

 

[tjs282]

@justanick:

As far as I can tell from a CFC site-search, Radar Towers boost both A- and D-values. (This thread seems fairly comprehensive, but I found several others where this was stated).

And I have certainly seen AI-Civs build RTs in the late epic-game (and also put up "Garrisons" in CCM, which have the same effect) — presumably, when they have an 'excess' of Workers/Slaves, e.g. from razing cities.

But do you know if the RT A/D-bonus effect (also) applies to air-units attacking/defending within the 2-tile radius?

(Catt's Q.5 in the thread above was not conclusively answered, as far as I can tell — he[?] thought not, but his test-results were 'a bit quirky')

If so, then targeting RTs before attacking the city itself might also help...

(Would also be nice if the 'Precision bombing' ability allowed specific building to be targeted, like the 'Stealth-attack' ability allows specific units to be targeted: the SAM Battery, Civil Defence and Barracks — if present — would be prime candidates for SEAD Air-missions)

 

[Civinator]

tjs282, as you mentioned the 'garrisons' in CCM1: The AI liked them a lot. They liked them so much, that they crippled their economy and used every worker available to build them. That´s why I had to abandon the idea about era 2 'garrisons' (= radar towers) and set this feature back to era 3, when the AI infrastructures are more developed. In CCM2 now the AI civs build radar towers like mad, when they are available.

The thread you have linked too, is the only one I´m aware, that tries to answer some of the questions concerning radar towers in more depth. After having seen many testgames in Debug Mode, I have the feeling, that Catt's 'a bit quirky' tests could be right, so I haven´t done my own tests about that topic.

Another interesting question is, if there is a boost for a land unit with an AA-value (Flak, Mobile SAM) if it stands in the tile that holds a radar tower (or in the two tiles radius) and is attacked by an aircraft.

 

[internetuserpi]

The best approach is probably to avoid air engagement.

Simply use your land based artillery. The modern radar artillery that becomes available with robotics has 16 bombardement with frequency of 3. So they are essentially as strong as stealth bombers, but cost only 120 shields instead of 240. Land based artillery will not help against air units, but it helps taking the city and thereby destroy all air units there.

If taking the city is not an option, than lesser alternatives are possibly, but not necessarily sensible.

You can use ships to bombard the city. After destroying the coastal fortress and damaging all ships in the city to 1 HP your ships will bombard all the planes in the city and actually destroy them. Bombardement against air units is lethal. You donnot need air units to destroy air units.

Cruise Missiles are a different category. They ignore the coastal fortress and also destroy ships first and air units second.

That’s good to know. The reason I like having a massive air force is because bombers can destroy defending and invading armies and navies on distant points on the map, where artillery, ships, and cruise missiles have a very limited range. This makes them ideal for me because right now I’m fighting on multiple fronts.

I’ve noticed that sometimes my air forces will engage and destroy defending interceptors. Do you know if any one air unit is better than another at shooting down enemy interceptors?
thanks

 

[justanick]

That’s good to know. The reason I like having a massive air force is because bombers can destroy defending and invading armies and navies on distant points on the map, where artillery, ships, and cruise missiles have a very limited range. This makes them ideal for me because right now I’m fighting on multiple fronts.

But in this specific case they are not so great. Land based artillery is strong if used well and if you utilize railroads and ship chains, than you can use them well.

I’ve noticed that sometimes my air forces will engage and destroy defending interceptors. Do you know if any one air unit is better than another at shooting down enemy interceptors?

My knowledge on the matter is sketchy. Units with higher defence value should be better at defending against being attack. That is where stealth fighters excel. Well, at least they are better than anything else at it.

If however you are attacking the interceptors, than jet fighters will be the best choice, but does that ever become relevant? It would mean that you would need to intercept the interceptors. So i guess that this does not occur. Not unless they were ordered to bombard you.

Best is of course to destroy the interceptors at the ground.