Embassy to Team Sirius

Sirius just sent us a PM, checking to see if we got mail from them.
AlphaShard said:
You should have some mail from us, wanted to check if you had gotten it.
I checked to see if we had new mail... we don't, so he is probably referring to their last message.

This note might have been prompted by them having spotted our settlers, so we should send them some kind of a response, but we should not disclose our plans to them. This is what I will send:

To Alphashard via PM:
Checked our inbox, did not see any new mail from Sirius. If you are referring to a message sent last week, then we will reply soon.

Thanks for checking
To all of Sirius via Gmail:
Sirian Allies,

We recieved your last message as well as your gracious trade of Marble for Sheep. We offered this trade to you previously, when we were constructing our Heroic Epic, but you were not interested in such a trade at the time. We have been using the Marble to complete Versailes palace, and anticipate completion in 9 turns. If you wish to resume your work with Marble at that time, we will happily accept some other reasonable trade for Sheep as per Section 5 of the SAP.

We apologize for the delay in responding to your last message, as you intimated that you were contemplating some resolution to the Mirza incident. Consequently, we were waiting for your proposal to rectify the situation over the Sirian occupation of Mirza which you so accurately referred to as "poaching." Again, we can imagine no solution that would satisfy us, save the Sirians simply transferring the city to us, however, as we have indicated previously, we have resigned ourselves to leaving this matter within the discretion of the wise Sirians.

On a related topic, we were somewhat confused by your implication that this incident was caused by a "lack of co-ordination between teams" as we responded to your General Blubmuz's communiques with a direct inquiry regarding Sirius' desires concerning the proposed cooperation. There was a delay on our part, which was due to the absence of our Special Envoy to Sirius, causing a delay in us recieving the messages. However, as soon as we recieved the letters from General Blubmuz, we responded. This took place the same year that our armies sieged and captured Option B.

In fact, we laid out two distinct plans of co-ordination for capturing the enemy home islands, and invited the wise Sirians to choose the strategy they favored. We got no response from your General, or any other Sirian following this communique. We did not hear from you again until we contacted you following the occupation of Mirza. We look forward with great anticipation to your response to our proposals, including any possible plans your Generals may have developed.

Sommerswerd, Captian of the Zenobian Matriarchy
My goal here is to put the ball back in their court, giving us time to settle the rest of Comet while they discuss their response. I also wanted to remind them that we still consider Mirza our city, and gently imply that any land-sharing agreements would require them giving Mirza to us unconditionally. Another thing I wanted to alert them to is that we consider Sheep a trade for Marble, despite their attempt to structure the deal as a gift. Finally, I wanted to swat down their BS allegation that the loss of Mirza was "our fault" because we "failed to co-ordinate with Blubmuz"... I remind them that in reality, it was they who failed to communicate, not us.

Anyway, given these developments, I think it would be best to settle the cities closest to Option B first, in order to capture the center of Comet before they accelerate their culture to block us.
 
Most recent PMs with AlphaShard of Sirius... mostly confirming that they got our proposals on taking MHI before Mavs home island.
AlphaShard said:
Sommerswerd said:
AlphaShard said:
Sommerswerd said:
AlphaShard said:
Sommerswerd said:
Checked our inbox, did not see any new mail from Sirius. If you are referring to a message sent last week, then we will reply soon.

Thanks for checking

Thanks for letting us know. :)
response sent
Just a note of clarification when you say you sent messages to Bulbmuz, was that in game?
We sent a letter to you, the same day we captured Option B, along with PMs to 5 prominent Sirians, notifying you to look for mail from us, to be sure the letter was recieved. I believe the PMs went to Blubmuz, Hush, Trystero, Irgy and yourself. Are you saying that no one got these messages or the letter?


No I found it, there was some confusion on which message you meant. I apologize for the subject being overlooked, we'll answer this in our next missive to you.
 
When I contacted the Allies about Sistine Chapel, this was in our Mailbox. As expected, Sirius is freaked at our flash settlement of Comet... I guess its good to be an IMP civ;)
On a related topic, we were somewhat confused by your implication that this incident was caused by a "lack of co-ordination between teams" as we responded to your General Blubmuz's communiques with a direct inquiry regarding Sirius' desires concerning the proposed cooperation. There was a delay on our part, which was due to the absence of our Special Envoy to Sirius, causing a delay in us recieving the messages. However, as soon as we recieved the letters form General Blubmuz, we responded. This took place the same year that our armies sieged and captured Oprion B.

In fact, we laid out two distinct plans of co-ordination for capturing the enemy home islands, and invited the wise Sirians to choose the strategy they favored. We got no response from your General, or any other Sirian following this communique. We did not hear from you again until we contacted you following the occupation of Mirza. We look forward with great anticipation to your response to our proposals, including any possible plans your Generals may have developed.

Let me first just explain what happened here.

It's clear to me that our intentions with regard to this co-ordination were poorly communicated. Our intention was to set up a much more involved and detailed planning than what seems to have been understood. It was not simply a request for alignment of our broader strategic plans. Instead it would have involved arranging times for generals to directly chat. Not just occasionally, but each turn. And to co-ordinate individual moves in detail. Such an idea however clearly requires a more active and immediate response.

So, after receiving no response for a number of turns, our general became frustrated with the idea. When a response finally did arrive, with no explanation for the delay and only some suggestions of broad strategic plans, our general simply gave up on the idea completely. It's increasingly clear to me however that you were simply entirely unaware of what it was that we were trying to arrange. Our general personally took it as a complete lack of interest in close co-operation and has had a petulant attitude ever since. However I think his response was thoroughly unwarrented, as his intent was simply never conveyed to you in a way that might have made clear the response he was after. This misunderstanding is part of what's lead to the greater breakdown in the diplomatic situation.

Agreeing on the broader plan before narrowing in to the details may well have been a good approach to lead into the sort of co-ordination we desired. So your message was perfectly fine in that regard. It just clashed with what we were hoping for at the time, and the whole process seemed destined to be too slow to acheive anything worthwhile.

A detailed, turn by turn active discussion as we intended would certainly have avoided the confusion that lead to the poaching in question, and that was the only point I was making there. Who's fault it is that this did not occur is a separate issue, and I am willing to conceed it was at least partly our own bad communication. We should also have at least responded to the message you did send. Like I said, this was at the peak of my own absence, our general had given up in despair, and no-one else thought to step in. We intend to avoid such a situation in the future.

We apologize for the delay in responding to your last message, as you intimated that you were contemplating some resolution to the Mirza incident. Consequently, we were waiting for your proposal to rectify the situation over the Sirian occupation of Mirza which you so accurately referred to as "poaching." Again, we can imagine no solution that would satisfy us, save the Sirians simply transferring the city to us, however, as we have indicated previously, we have resigned ourselves to leaving this matter within the discretion of the wise Sirians.

To be frank, we are in a state of universal disagreement on the matter over here. It seems both teams were waiting for each other to some extent, as we were hoping your response might shed some light on the debate over here.

Instead it seems some light has been shed, but not through diplomatic channels. A number of settlers have appeared in the area, and it seems reasonably clear that your intent is to settle the all or most of the remaining available spaces on this spoke. While this highlights further the breakdown in the diplomatic situation, and has some members of the team a little concerned, personally I think it is a perfectly reasonable, legitimate and justified reaction to the situation. It's not a co-operative reaction, but our own city poaching, however unintentional at the time, was no a co-operative action to begin with, so it's understandable.


My goal at this stage is simply to find a resolution to the situation with which we can agree to call it even and move on. Although we'd, on balance, prefer to avoid a pointless culture war and over-settling of the spoke, we respect your right to settle the available locations. However, it's no use if you still feel wronged, and the ensuing culture war then only serves to damage relations further. So, I have a number of suggestions and questions as to what you would find an acceptable resolution to the situation.

Firstly, with regard to conceeding Mirza, the team is still divided on whether we ought to or not. However, I can say a couple of things with confidence. There is no way I will be able to convince people to vote in favour of gifting the city if this is to be followed by your continuing to settle aggressively in the area. On the other hand, if gifting the city would give us an agreement that you will avoid any further settlements in the area, then people here would at least feel like they are getting something out of it and be more willing to conceed Mirza. This leads to a couple of potentially viable options:
* Gifting the city in exchange for a no settlement agreement, or,
* Keeping the city in exchange for allowing you to settle the area as you please.

But first I need to know, would either of these options satisfy you? Or come close at least, such that we can consider some other possibilities that may make up the difference? The second option is kind of the status quo, which is what would likely happen if nothing was done, however the question remains as to whether you would consider this to make us even, or continue to hold the whole situation against us in the future.

If we can find a resolution to the situation that satisfies us both, we can then return to the better co-operation that we used to have.
My inclination is to put the choice back in their hands... either way, we get the Marble. They cant pop borders or get settlers there fast enough to stop us from settling the spire and they know it. Their only hope to get any more land on Comet is to give us Mirza and hope for a negotiation of the Spire (Whale/Oasis). Frankly, I dont care which they choose... I am fine with discontinuing settling in exchange for Mirza, And I am also OK with just settling the rest of the spire as planned. I am interested to hear others' thoughts... but we definitely got their attention, and improved their attitude a little ;)

Maybe we give them until the end of the turn to choose between us continuing to settle or giving us Mirza.:dunno:
 
Well, I am impressed how good it worked. Now they are willing to divide land and even pass Mirza to us. Good job, Captain. Our gamble is going to net us some good half a Comet.

I think we must have a stand and say our wish. Call it to show character if you wish. They are making concession to us and it will be nice we to actually use it.

I would say we need some time to actually think about the posibilities. My best guess is we to try and consolidate our territory, and make it more solid to the center of Starland. Otherwise the cities there will be always hostages.

After some 10 hours I can make a proposed land division with dotmap. What you think?
 
My main concern is that since we caught them with their pants down with our fast REX, they are trying to buy some turns to pop borders and prevent us from settling where Hippolyte-Cee-Cee is. One border pop there will effectively block us out. Also, we need to send our responding diplo quickly, to give them a full day to discuss and respond. We need to put high-pressure on them.

To protect our options, I will say:
Greetings Sirian Allies,

We appreciate the straight-forwardness of your communication and we will respond in kind as we always have in our dealings with our Sirian allies. The Sirians are wise and perceptive indeed. The AMAZON, having had our city, Mirza "poached" from us felt that the Sirians were pursuing a first-come, first-served, finders-keepers policy towards the lands on Comet. So as you suspected, our decision to rapidly settle the rest of Comet was a direct response to the Sirian occupation of Mirza. What do do going forward therefore, is a simple matter to The AMAZON.

As we have stated, we regard Mirza as our city and consequently we can not indulge any trades or agreements in exchange for it. As we have also stated, we regard the taking and continued occupation of the city to be in bad-faith, and we cannot entertain any agreements regarding the lands on the Comet penninsula until Mirza has been rightfully returned to us.

However, if the Sirians transfer ownership to Mirza before the end of the current turn, we will consider the issue of Mirza resolved, and we will happily enter into negotiations on equitably dividing the remainder of Comet. If this proposal is accepted, we will then like to negotiate on how to manage the delicate matter of cultural expansion on Comet, to avoid a costly and distracting culture war there.

In the meantime, as far as settlemnt goes, what we would favor, is to settle in place on the forest near the northwestern Clam, where our settler already is, and leave the remainder of the Spire to our wise Sirian friends. With your recently obtained special building, you can certainly make much better use of the spire than The AMAZON.

On the other hand, if we do not hear from you favorably before the end of the turn, our settlers stand poised to completely settle the remainder of the land on Comet within the next few turns, including 2 cities that will be founded next turn. Additionally, we will still consider Mirza to be our city, and we will not entertain any agreements with respect to cultural expansion, land division or anything else regarding Comet outside the terms of our existing SAP treaty, until Mirza is delivered to us.

Finally, we regard the issue of Comet to be minor, having very little effect on our great affection for our Sirian friends in the larger sense. We feel that this matter may have strained, but will by no means break our bonds of friendship. The swift, painful and firey death of our mutual enemies, the Candy-Axis remains our foremost concern.

nabaxo, Special Envoy to Sirius &
Sommerswerd, Captain of The AMAZON
 
Man, you are bargaining hard. Now I know how empty was my hopes for peace back then in the Tribal Warfare pitboss when I wanted fair (to my common sense) reparations for your attack at me :)

On the current matter, I think we are pushing too hard. If you send this and it succeed I will buy you a beer, Sommers :) If not, we will think what to do later.
 
I will have to agree with 2metra on this. We are driving a very hard bargain, I don't think it will make us many friends among Sirius. Alas, they poached that city from us and now they feel the wrath of our REXing abilities. xD
 
@ sommers - great response. I would also add that we will unilaterally gift them X number of our settlers. That will sweeten the deal and will be a good counter argument for those opposed to giving up Mirza.

We don't really have much use for them anyway if we are not going to grab all of Comet.
 
We just got this from Sirius about 14 hours ago
Greetings

We had in fact started on Scientific Method, however since you have requested we avoid this technology we have switched to Economics instead. If any other teams intend to do some research, it appears the only two remaining chocies are Railroad and the dead-end but still at least a little useful Military Science.

We would still question the wisdom of building the Temple of Artemis at this stage of the game, as there are very few techs available (6 in total as I understand: Military Science, Railroad, Combustion, Economics, Corporation, Assembly Line) that it is not a pre-requisite for, so we will surely wish to research it fairly soon.

Irgy, on behalf of Team Sirius
I sent this out just now:
Greetings Allies,

Perhaps you forgot, we are already teching Economics.

Team AMAZON
I will PM this to the Sirius team members
Hello Allies,

Just noticed your message that you switched to Economics this turn. I guess you forgot that we were already teching Economics.

Also, on another matter, the members of the team wanted me to remind you that we have settlers available to transfer to you if you accept our proposal to postpone settlement of Comet pending a settlement agreement between us. So you would be able to found your cities right away if you so choose.

Sommerswerd
 
I just had to doublecheck that I actually told the allies that we were getting Economics and I did... I sent Irgy & Alphashard (along with cav scout and barbu1977) this PM on Feb 26. The Subject Line said "AMAZON finished Banking, Getting Economics" :lol: so I guess they just forgot... it was a while ago:blush: we should probably finish it when the Anarchy ends... we need the Merchant :gold: for upgrades anyway.
Spoiler :
Sommerswerd said:
Hi Allies,

Just a note that we finished Banking and have it available to gift to you. We are currently pursuing Economics.

Sommerswerd
 
I calculated we will need some good 30 turns to tech Ecomonics if we dont switch to building wealth. And thats much of a time.
 
Man, you are bargaining hard... If you send this and it succeed I will buy you a beer, Sommers :)
:lol: They cant pop the border in Alterban in the middle of the turn (without a Great Artist:mischief:) so we dont have to found that city right away. We can give them all the way until the end of the next turn (starting in about 3 hours) to decide. We offered them settlers too so that should give them something to think about... but we can't agree to what they wanted (ie we promise not to settle anymore cities on Comet in exchange for Mizra)... That would be giving up 3 cities for one:(... And we cant allow them to stall our expansion while they frantically try to pop all their borders... or settle under our noses
 
I say that us building Temple of Artemis is a bad idea. We should let Sirius tech sci-meth and let them obsolete their own wonder.
 
Well, then we need another plan for getting Great Prophet soon. 20-30 GPT is a good deal, if we are making 40 at 100% slider.
 
I was thinking absolutely the same, Nabaxo, but I though Sommerswerd have something in mind about SciMeth that we will want to use once it is available...

To make the thinkgs clear, I will say that the obsoleting only ocures when the civ in question gets the tech, not when it is first discovered. It will not affect us until we actually accept the tech.
 
Are you guys thinking we should just tell Sirius to continue teching SciMeth and forget about ToA? Let me know so I can tell them... I never wanted to polute Themiscyra's :gp: pool anyway;)

If So, then should we go for Angkor Wat instead to get our Prophet? Where to build it?

We only obsolete the wonder if we accept SciMeth, but there is no way we should be without SciMeth when others have it, as this is the only way to see where Oil is. We can't let our allies know where Oil resources are while we are in the dark.

Plus, it is very dangerous for us to not take techs as soon as they are discovered... what if they discover a few SciMeth related techs and then get mad at us and/or backstab us? We will be so super screwed.
 
Back
Top Bottom