Embassy with Anarchie
- Thread starter CharlemagneXLII
- Start date
Calis
on time
And do you think we should disclose our research capability? alternatively, we could tell them: In about 7-8 turns.
What do you think?
What do you think?
I'm not sure how soon we should get it - I've had research set at maximum just because we could always turn it down later. I'd like to know what is happening on the other continent - we don't want either side to win the war decisively, and if Anarchie is really winning as the Kuche and Anarchie seem to think, then we don't want to give them Feudalism anytime soon.
I'm reluctant to distribute our world map, but maybe we could buy Anarchie's or Brotherhood's world map for gold? Or maybe trade our territory map for each of their territory maps?
Without more information about the war, I'd say we will complete it around turn 101
.
I'm reluctant to distribute our world map, but maybe we could buy Anarchie's or Brotherhood's world map for gold? Or maybe trade our territory map for each of their territory maps?
Without more information about the war, I'd say we will complete it around turn 101
.
Calis
on time
It seems you sent the wrong file to Anarchie...
Calis
on time
Letter to Anarchie: (Just slightly adjusted the one for Kueche)
In the last (bold) sentence I gave them a rough estimation of our research time. Telling them another 10 turns seems not very believable to me.
What do you think?
In the last (bold) sentence I gave them a rough estimation of our research time. Telling them another 10 turns seems not very believable to me.
What do you think?
I don't know if they have that good an idea of our research ability. They are taking 15 turns for Theology, and they don't have unit support issues and can still use MPs . If we researched at the maximum rate while keeping positive cash flow, then it would honestly be 9 more turns.
I think we are better off telling them 9 turns instead of giving them a range and coming in at the slower end of the range. If we are going to make them wait 9 turns, then let's just tell them that's when it will be.
. If we researched at the maximum rate while keeping positive cash flow, then it would honestly be 9 more turns. I think we are better off telling them 9 turns instead of giving them a range and coming in at the slower end of the range. If we are going to make them wait 9 turns, then let's just tell them that's when it will be.
Calis
on time
Adjusted...
Calis
on time
From Anarchie:
Calis
on time
My answer:
Interesting indeed. As of the last save, BH still lacked Mysticism (and Polytheism), Horseback Riding, and Construction. I don't remember what they had before, but it seems unlikely that Kuche is providing them techs.
I am very curious why Kuche is at all interested in Chivalry. That struck me as odd before.
We can certainly tell Anarchie that we have had no contact with the Brotherhood in months.
I am very curious why Kuche is at all interested in Chivalry. That struck me as odd before.
We can certainly tell Anarchie that we have had no contact with the Brotherhood in months.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Because we just promised confidentiality of this conversation, we can not confront the Kitchen for verification of these claims. Again we're in the dark unless we can find a work-around for getting information from others.
We must start getting more gold out of the Kitchen. If we give them Chivalry and then decide to hold back techs for payment, they will send their Knights to war with us. Let's get some cash up front and then go to gpt later.
Funny that the Kitchen has not told us about their conversation with the Anarchy.
We must start getting more gold out of the Kitchen. If we give them Chivalry and then decide to hold back techs for payment, they will send their Knights to war with us. Let's get some cash up front and then go to gpt later.
Funny that the Kitchen has not told us about their conversation with the Anarchy.
It can't be a bad thing to have Anarchie mad at Kuche 
.
I think Kuche may be insisting on Chivarly simply to slow the tech pace down. As a non-scientific tribe, they don't want a fast pace, and making us research an optional tech is good for them.
Incidentally, if Anarchie has an extra luxury as everyone else seems to, we could consider buying it from them. Right now, it would save us 10 gpt in luxury spending. However, when our cities are size 7 (the first one will be in about 6-7 turns), it is unlikely to save us any cash again as we will likely need 10% luxury spending regardless. When our cities are size 12 and have marketplaces, then the luxury will certainly be helpful again, but that will probably not be for another 15-20 turns.
.I think Kuche may be insisting on Chivarly simply to slow the tech pace down. As a non-scientific tribe, they don't want a fast pace, and making us research an optional tech is good for them.
Incidentally, if Anarchie has an extra luxury as everyone else seems to, we could consider buying it from them. Right now, it would save us 10 gpt in luxury spending. However, when our cities are size 7 (the first one will be in about 6-7 turns), it is unlikely to save us any cash again as we will likely need 10% luxury spending regardless. When our cities are size 12 and have marketplaces, then the luxury will certainly be helpful again, but that will probably not be for another 15-20 turns.
Calis
on time
I also thought it's not too bad. Also that Kueche tries to balance the powers on the other continent.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
From d7 ~
Dear Eagles,
some of us think that it is critically important for both the Eagles and the free people to come to a close cooperation very soon. We have been thinking about what the Küche is planning, and I personally believe they are planning a surprise attack against either you or us.
It is crucial to find out what civilization the Küche is playing. From watching F11 we are quite sure that they are industrious. We also know that they are neither agricultural (rules), seafaring (slow ships), religious (long phase of anarchy) nor scientific (no free tech). So only three civilizations remain:
* Americans (ridiculous, no usable UU and useless trait, you _would_ have seen their scout),
* French (very well possible),
* Chinese.
That the Küche keeps repeating that _we_ need Chivalry and never talk about Invention may be a clue that their unique unit needs Chivalry, i.e. that they are Chinese, and nobody plays a militaristic civilization without planning war.
Together we can make a simple test as to what their intentions are: You can suggest to remove Chivalry from the research pact because "nobody needs or wants it". Jus tell them that you talked to us and that we did not really want Chivalry, and that two peacefull peoples like the Eagles and the Küche have no need whatsoever for that dead end tech that just costs everybody money and has no practical use. If they still insist on Chivalry, they must have a _very_ good reason to do so.
Please do keep in mind that if the Küche plays the Chinese, they are bound to attack _you_ shortly after Chivalry is researched. Here is some of the evidence:
* The Küche has horses connected.
* We are currently in a discussion with the Küche because we want them to pay some of the 308 1/3 Gold pieces they currently owe us before we get Feudalism. And know what? They outright _refuse_ to pay their debts, inventing lots of fake reasons why they can't pay and that they are not obliged to pay anything because of some calculation where they research the same amount of beakers as everybody else does - but actually they have not been researching anything for more than ten turns.
* We are now in our golden age in despotism. We know how much money _we_ make per turn. Speaking of _commerce_, the golden age in despotism is weaker than just being in the republic. So they must make considerably _more_ money than we do. We have a net profit of 77 coins per turn. The Küche told us they are sending you 50 gold per turn, so this leaves at least a gain of 27 gold per turn plus the money they received from the Knights. Yet they told us that they are not hoarding money, which is quite clearly a lie.
Given that, saving 480 or 600 gold coins to upgrade four to five horsemen is not too difficult for the Küche. Also, five horsemen wont show as a noticeable military service of F11 or F3. But five Ansar warriors are enough to conquer your whole realm if you don't have a solid defense.
--
This scenario is not proven, but if that's what they are planning and they pull it off, it will be the end for you and for us.
--
So to better judge the situation, we have given you some information and want to ask you some questions. Honest answers may help us to pin down the plans of the Küche:
1. How strong is your military compared to the Küche (F3 and F11)? Were there any recent changes (in which turns)?
2. Did you swap maps with the Küche? Did they sell _your_ maps to the Knights?
3. Do you know which civilization they play? Finding that out is _crucial_ for us.
--
We are thinking about offering you a close cooperation, because at the moment we are hard pressed by the Knights who enjoy the Küche's support. Without a strong partner, we are destined to perish soon. If you are interested in intensifying our relations, we will offer some deals that should strengthen both of us.
A voice of the free people
P.S.: As time for diplomacy seems to be somewhat scarce for you Eagles: Would you prefer shorter messages with less text and just a few topics, or long ones with all things to negotiate in one message?
Dear Eagles,
some of us think that it is critically important for both the Eagles and the free people to come to a close cooperation very soon. We have been thinking about what the Küche is planning, and I personally believe they are planning a surprise attack against either you or us.
It is crucial to find out what civilization the Küche is playing. From watching F11 we are quite sure that they are industrious. We also know that they are neither agricultural (rules), seafaring (slow ships), religious (long phase of anarchy) nor scientific (no free tech). So only three civilizations remain:
* Americans (ridiculous, no usable UU and useless trait, you _would_ have seen their scout),
* French (very well possible),
* Chinese.
That the Küche keeps repeating that _we_ need Chivalry and never talk about Invention may be a clue that their unique unit needs Chivalry, i.e. that they are Chinese, and nobody plays a militaristic civilization without planning war.
Together we can make a simple test as to what their intentions are: You can suggest to remove Chivalry from the research pact because "nobody needs or wants it". Jus tell them that you talked to us and that we did not really want Chivalry, and that two peacefull peoples like the Eagles and the Küche have no need whatsoever for that dead end tech that just costs everybody money and has no practical use. If they still insist on Chivalry, they must have a _very_ good reason to do so.
Please do keep in mind that if the Küche plays the Chinese, they are bound to attack _you_ shortly after Chivalry is researched. Here is some of the evidence:
* The Küche has horses connected.
* We are currently in a discussion with the Küche because we want them to pay some of the 308 1/3 Gold pieces they currently owe us before we get Feudalism. And know what? They outright _refuse_ to pay their debts, inventing lots of fake reasons why they can't pay and that they are not obliged to pay anything because of some calculation where they research the same amount of beakers as everybody else does - but actually they have not been researching anything for more than ten turns.
* We are now in our golden age in despotism. We know how much money _we_ make per turn. Speaking of _commerce_, the golden age in despotism is weaker than just being in the republic. So they must make considerably _more_ money than we do. We have a net profit of 77 coins per turn. The Küche told us they are sending you 50 gold per turn, so this leaves at least a gain of 27 gold per turn plus the money they received from the Knights. Yet they told us that they are not hoarding money, which is quite clearly a lie.
Given that, saving 480 or 600 gold coins to upgrade four to five horsemen is not too difficult for the Küche. Also, five horsemen wont show as a noticeable military service of F11 or F3. But five Ansar warriors are enough to conquer your whole realm if you don't have a solid defense.
--
This scenario is not proven, but if that's what they are planning and they pull it off, it will be the end for you and for us.
--
So to better judge the situation, we have given you some information and want to ask you some questions. Honest answers may help us to pin down the plans of the Küche:
1. How strong is your military compared to the Küche (F3 and F11)? Were there any recent changes (in which turns)?
2. Did you swap maps with the Küche? Did they sell _your_ maps to the Knights?
3. Do you know which civilization they play? Finding that out is _crucial_ for us.
--
We are thinking about offering you a close cooperation, because at the moment we are hard pressed by the Knights who enjoy the Küche's support. Without a strong partner, we are destined to perish soon. If you are interested in intensifying our relations, we will offer some deals that should strengthen both of us.
A voice of the free people
P.S.: As time for diplomacy seems to be somewhat scarce for you Eagles: Would you prefer shorter messages with less text and just a few topics, or long ones with all things to negotiate in one message?
More comments later, but I can confirm that Kuche is industrious. I remember being very confused by their F11 stats originally, so it is not surprising I was wrong about them. However, there recently was a worker of theirs within sight of one of our warriors:
900 BC - not in sight yet
875 BC - in sight
850 BC - roading
825 BC - road completed, worker standing still
800 BC - worker moved
900 BC - not in sight yet
875 BC - in sight
850 BC - roading
825 BC - road completed, worker standing still
800 BC - worker moved
Bowsling
Deity
This is indeed interesting. We should start building MDIs, in case of a Küche attack.
Calis
on time
They are weak towards us. Right now there is no reason for that.
Cyc
Looking for the door...
Unless they're pre-building and plan to switch to units like the BH did.
EDIT: Plus, we have what, 29 Workers? What if the Kitchen only has 10 Workers? That's a good amount of Pikes and Horsemen.
Calis
on time
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