RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
RR Klaslnakov
Ras ... kol... ni... kov... not kalashnikov!!! (too much CS perhaps IPEX
)
Emperor Cookbook II: Mehmed II
- Thread starter ChromiumL
- Start date
Ras ... kol... ni... kov... not kalashnikov!!! (too much CS perhaps IPEX
)
carl corey
Deity
Yeah, that copper city doesn't have any longtime potential, that's for sure. I'm almost inclined to vote for saves who haven't founded that city. If we go for archery, there will be time later to put a city there to get copper and marble. I doubt that anyone will beat us to that superb location!
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
Yeah, that copper city doesn't have any longtime potential, that's for sure. I'm almost inclined to vote for saves who haven't founded that city. If we go for archery, there will be time later to put a city there to get copper and marble. I doubt that anyone will beat us to that superb location!
+ we know now that the empty tile in Istanbull is not horses or copper ... iron please
pigswill
fly (one day)
On the other hand marble saves 225 hammers towards Glib and its a lot easier to capture barb cities with axes than archers. "Not all cities have to be built for their long term potential. Sometimes it can be worthwhile building a city to secure a vital resource".
Medium term copper city can run two scientists with a library contributing one or two GS towards ye bogge standarde liberalism race. Long term it will still pay its way as a fishing village.
Medium term copper city can run two scientists with a library contributing one or two GS towards ye bogge standarde liberalism race. Long term it will still pay its way as a fishing village.
I think there's plenty of time to get a Settler up to settle the city and connect the resource before then. Could always settle the city nearer the Marble. Real cost of that city is immediate access to Ivory and a better intermediate city site.
And boosts to the Oracle, I suppose.
And boosts to the Oracle, I suppose.
carl corey
Deity
pigswill: True. If Iron shows up somewhere more convenient we're ok, even if barbs spawn some cities. Otherwise, it's a bit of trouble unless we fogbust the Copper city location in the meantime. Then again, spending hammers for archers to fogbust might be less useful than simply having a city there. I hate being able to argue with myself... 
I hate being able to argue with myself... 
Bleys
Deity
Unless we were planning to rush Toku, getting the Copper a few turns later doenst hurt us that much, especially since most saves have Hunting at least, or even Archery already. Copper gives us the ability to take barb cities.
My next settler isnt even headed North of Istanbul, its headed to the Pigs-Ivory by Eridine. Both in the first ring and access to more of those lake tiles that will be nicer with a Lighthouse.
Why do we even want to Fogbust? Barbs are where we are going to get XP for our units (cities and roamers). I see absolutely no need for an early war of any kind here, we should focus on Settlers, Galleys, Workers and Garrisons.
My next settler isnt even headed North of Istanbul, its headed to the Pigs-Ivory by Eridine. Both in the first ring and access to more of those lake tiles that will be nicer with a Lighthouse.
Why do we even want to Fogbust? Barbs are where we are going to get XP for our units (cities and roamers). I see absolutely no need for an early war of any kind here, we should focus on Settlers, Galleys, Workers and Garrisons.
carl corey
Deity
In case we choose a save in which we haven't settled near the copper, we need to fog-bust if we want to be sure of getting at least one source of metal. Sure, we could wait for Elephants and Catapults to take eventual barb cities, or simply hope for Iron to pop out somewhere convenient. I'm not inclined to do either on such a map.
After we have copper fogbusting isn't that useful, unless we're already building the settler for a city in that place, of course.
After we have copper fogbusting isn't that useful, unless we're already building the settler for a city in that place, of course.
Bleys
Deity
Oh, one other thing. ANY city has excellent medium-long term potential as long as it has food and is on the coast. I settle 1-tile islands with only 1 seafood if I get the GLH. I settle pure-iceflow cities if there is a seafood and a Whale, Silver, or Fur to grab as well. Having the Marble in the 3rd ring may be a problem when its time for the GLibrary. Now, I have faced similar situations (marble in an unpopped 3rd ring, ready to start GL), and the work-around is to pre-chop until the border pops, then whack it all down and get 200 hammers in one "whack".
Obviously, a lot of my frustration is related to my save. It has no votes, while saves with the 1S of copper are near the top, and thats basically the ONLY difference. How is "Copper city in the better spot" not a "Plus"?
Obviously, a lot of my frustration is related to my save. It has no votes, while saves with the 1S of copper are near the top, and thats basically the ONLY difference. How is "Copper city in the better spot" not a "Plus"?
Bleys
Deity
Ah I see, yes, thats a very valid point. We cant let the Barbs drop a city on that Copper, it will be very difficult to take if we dont score Iron.
But once again, I think that makes the Copper city that much "better" than the Ivory city saves. That Ivory isnt going anywhere, no other AIs can settle it before us, and having Copper means we allow the Barbs to build as many cities as they wish.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
@Pigswill: yeah I agree that city has to be settled anyways... as you said, hard to take barb cities with archers... in my save I began building them to fog bust and to put a few in the Toku blocking city.
@Abegweit: about IW and AH... I was thinking that we could trade for it (going for alpha or aesthetics) but you can be right... only Cyrus is a decent trader, might aswell tech that myself...
About Cyrus, I think that it will be important to befriend him... he is a good ally and the other two are jerks... better to have at least one AI on our side... (@Bleys: that's also the reason why I think wonders won't be a priority after the GL, we just can't let live those two agressive AIs)
it could be nice to find someone else too
@Abegweit: about IW and AH... I was thinking that we could trade for it (going for alpha or aesthetics) but you can be right... only Cyrus is a decent trader, might aswell tech that myself...
About Cyrus, I think that it will be important to befriend him... he is a good ally and the other two are jerks... better to have at least one AI on our side... (@Bleys: that's also the reason why I think wonders won't be a priority after the GL, we just can't let live those two agressive AIs)
it could be nice to find someone else too
carl corey
Deity
Bleys: True.
As for the votes, I'll try to take a look at them tonight, but there are quite a few of them so I'm not sure I'm going to make it as I have a volleyball match too.
As for the votes, I'll try to take a look at them tonight, but there are quite a few of them so I'm not sure I'm going to make it as I have a volleyball match too.
Bleys:
about copper city - calculate how long it tooks to get copper from being near marble.
In most saves that is >20 turns untill it hits culture zone. +mining (if preroaded.) Yopu need extensive fogbust (which none settled there (including myself) did) and cross fingers RNG does not drop early barb axe. Problem it has very crappy tiles to start with (unless you improve marble early on (but quarry in tundra will take that 10+turns? ) no two food tile. no two hammer tile. I wished i would have hit Ctrl+Y before settling. Probably wasting that forest would have been not that bad idea.
Honestly best place for that city would be on that ice
Raskolnikov: Depends how much land these jerks got to work with. I believe Shaka expands quickly so Toku might be boxed in very badly. In such case he could serve as a nice shield (especially as he might not open borders to Shaka for ever.) I do not believe shaka can pull galley based invasion in reasonable time.
about copper city - calculate how long it tooks to get copper from being near marble.
In most saves that is >20 turns untill it hits culture zone. +mining (if preroaded.) Yopu need extensive fogbust (which none settled there (including myself) did) and cross fingers RNG does not drop early barb axe. Problem it has very crappy tiles to start with (unless you improve marble early on (but quarry in tundra will take that 10+turns? ) no two food tile. no two hammer tile. I wished i would have hit Ctrl+Y before settling. Probably wasting that forest would have been not that bad idea.
Honestly best place for that city would be on that ice
Raskolnikov: Depends how much land these jerks got to work with. I believe Shaka expands quickly so Toku might be boxed in very badly. In such case he could serve as a nice shield (especially as he might not open borders to Shaka for ever.) I do not believe shaka can pull galley based invasion in reasonable time.
Bleys
Deity
I agree, actually. Even with Marble, I think the next logical World Wonder after the GL is either UofS if we manage to get Stone, or the Taj. But Marble means we get HE and NE dirt cheap. Letting the barbs settle cities not only gives us cash when we take them, but much needed XP to open up the HE. Pretty sure we want those wonders.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
They are both techs you need now. The cow is a very valuable tile and AH is a prereq for writing anyway. In your case, IW is more important than it is for most because you have already settled the ivory. It's a minor point. Nice game. Different from most.
Bleys
Deity
If we have archery, who cares how long? Its going to be a reasonable time-frame, 20 turns isnt death. Its 100+ turns to pop the Marble from that spot, and personally, I am gunning for the GL, and cheap HE and NE because of it.Bleys:
about copper city - calculate how long it tooks to get copper from being near marble.
In most saves that is >20 turns untill it hits culture zone. +mining (if preroaded.) Yopu need extensive fogbust (which none settled there (including myself) did) and cross fingers RNG does not drop early barb axe. Problem it has very crappy tiles to start with (unless you improve marble early on (but quarry in tundra will take that 10+turns? ) no two food tile. no two hammer tile. I wished i would have hit Ctrl+Y before settling. Probably wasting that forest would have been not that bad idea.
Honestly best place for that city would be on that ice
And believe it or not, Tundra cities dont suck too bad if there is a river. Watermills and Cottages are buildable. A lighthouse makes the coast tiles food-neutral, and makes the fish +4. The Copper and the Marble are reasonable production tiles. I think people will be surprised at how useful that city will be.
The location of your copper city was not influential in my vote. The most important of the factors that influenced me is the lack of military units in your save. Compared with Carl Corey, there is a lot of unit building required. And I find that undefended city very worrying.
RJM
I almost voted for you. I thought your save was pretty solid. To be honest a lot of the saves are very close in goodness.
Bleys
Deity
Dude, we are talking about a couple warriors, less than 50 total hammers. I have 2, and will whip the Monument into a Warrior where there is no Garrison. I think the Copper city is a factor. Those who didnt build it at all are more likely to have Barb Axes coming from that area. Those who built it with the Marble in the 3rd ring may be forced to delay the GL, and will slow the HE and NE, 2 very important early game Wonders. Getting those 3 Wonders early will almost make this game a blowout.
carl corey
Deity
DHeisman: Indeed, the closeness of the saves might result in some pretty similar saves not receiving nearly the same number of points. On the other hand, if a save that is closely similar to mine is chosen for the next round I don't think I'm going to mind.
Similar threads
