Emperor Cookbook II: Mehmed II

Bleys:

I agree that the GLH wins this map, and it was done relatively early and with good efficiency. In an early comment pigswill has concurred with your placement of the Marble-Copper city. I had supposed that your reason for not prioritizing BW even without Archery so early was because in this type of map, chokepoints are more powerful, and there's a lot less land to generate land-based barbarians.

Using that extrapolation, I reasoned that your early lack of military was based on a more thorough experience of the map generated, and also pointed to greater generation of water-based barbarians, which Soirana above seems to attest to.

Frankly, I expected more Galleys to come along and pillage my water resources, so I was expecting to build Triremes earlier.

My purpose for building the Pyramids is kinda obscure I suppose. It's to pursue an SE-type TRE en route to a Culture win, which is my preferred win condition. To that end, I built a WB to find other AIs to facilitate the TRE and to acquire religions through OB and trade routes. The Pyramids boost my research through early Rep later being supplemented with Sistine Culture for the baseline. I only needed 9 cities for this win, so I wasn't too keen on taking out Toku or claiming much land early on. Nabbing the Triple-Ivory site was key in keeping other AI off the islands southeast of Istanbul (and Toku protected islands west of Pig/Fur so there was no hurry).

Indeed, I was kind of thinking about keeping Toku around for as long as Shaka didn't declare on him, because Shaka is harder to deal with than Toku - much more likely to declare war with an appreciable effect.

After Ellies come online, Toku will be a nonissue - he'll get left behind in the tech dust and won't have any troops worth mentioning. I was thinking of gifting him Feudalism later on if he doesn't tech it himself so as to prop him up against Shaka on the other side.

In retrospect, it's probable that my experience on Continents and Hemispheres maps is giving me a greater sense of value in Mids for this situation than it warrants. Colossus could probably turn out to be its equal or better, since we expect to run more water tiles. The production is piss-poor though. I have barely any stacks to speak of!

Spoiler :

Using an early WB to scout out AI, I was able to contact Cyrus, Shaka, Toku, Pacal, and Justinian shortly after 1500 BC. Having Justinian and Cyrus to pull up my research rates probably helped a bunch, too. And I didn't have to scout much after the initial contact. And I had nice TRs. It was an enjoyable game, but easier for me than playing Emperor with Sitting Bull on Hemispheres. I really need to learn SB play more.
 
400 AD

Spoiler :
After all this endless discussion about the importance of getting copper, I only trained one axe in the next thousand years and he never saw any action :lol: Bleys was right that you don't see many barbs. Despite this, I still think it was right to place the city by the metal, although obviously not for the reasons we claimed.

The simple fact is that the tundra marble is a piss-poor tile. It also takes a long time to get the quarry up. Pigswill was right. We need to get the Marble on line for the appropriate wonders, not to work the tile. In contrast with Marble, the copper helped enormously to get the Monument up and a work boat out. Even that is marginal though. Through most of my game, I worked the sea tiles instead of the metal. This all makes that the decision to go after the Ivory spot first look even better. I am starting to believe that that was the right move.

Anyway. My game. I started by chopping everything in sight around the capital in order to get the wonder out ASAP and finished it in 1100BC. After Writing, I decided to tech MC (with a side-step to Hunting at some point). We have copper and the wonder is great on this map. The tech is great trade bait. And there's triremes too, although I never did see any barb gallerys. What's not to like?

I next went up the Math line to Calendar and Construction. When Cyrus finally discovered Alphabet I backfilled for some stuff and continued on towards CS. I built the Colossus in the capital and, aside from that I rexed like mad. Edirne whipped a lot of settlers. Istanbul was hit for a couple too. I'm don't remember if there was another cities that trained settlers but they sure whipped everything in sight. Granaries, Lighthouses, Courthouses, workboats, axes. You name it. Those cheap buildings are just fun to pop. :cool: Some of my people are pretty annoyed with me over this (there's 53 unhappies out there somewhere :D ). Still... I now have thirteen cities and have claimed every food resource south of the Japanese border.

It's time to claim those to the north of the border. :mischief: To that end, I have constructed a reasonably decent army of axes and cats. Some war elephants are being trained to add to the mix. The strike will come soon. I am already first on the power graph. I started with a little trial expedition against a barb city at the corn/pigs/ivory north of the capital, taken at the cost of a cat.

In other news, my first GP was a Merchant and he went off to Persepolis on a trade mission which came in a few turns before Bureaucracy. I kinda went a bit crazy on the tech side after this jumping all over the map taking HB, Aesthetics and Lit. Then on to Philo for Daoism. Riight. Look at the religion screen first, buddy. There's a techer out there somewhere.

While careless, it may not have been a bad decision. There's still more than a thousand bucks in the kitty and the tech rate is 299BPT. Just got my second GP, a GS out of Ankara which had been running two scientists through most of the round. Not sure what to do with him. Blubing seems wrong at this point. Probably an academy in the capital. Speaking of which, it is almost finished building the MoM. Music coming next for the GA. In view of my mixup about Philo, I think would be good to switch immediately.

On the subject of the Pyramids. It went around 200AD in my game so I assume it would have been easy enough to land. Just never seemed to be the right move. After I finished the Colossus, I went looking another wonder to build and noticed that the Mids was still out there. In the end I trained another settler instead.
 

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A little bit of AI stupidity to gawk at in astonishment. Take a look at a shot of Persepolis in the far north. You can see it in my game and Pigswill's but presumably it's the same even when the city is in the FoW. What is wrong with this picture?
 
To 400AD
Spoiler :

10 cities, core with courthouse,granary,library, monument etc.
GL and GLight built.

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Land

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View attachment KingMorgan e_AD-0400.CivBeyondSwordSave
 
My 400 AD report:

Spoiler :


This will be mostly pictures and few words since I played really fast (for me!) with few notes. I edited the game in WB to normal speed and played both the first rounds in one go, this is just a shadow and non-participatory.

So I built the GLH of course, 1240 I think. First expansion:

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Food, Gold, Blocking Toku, what's not to like?

Second expansion:

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I decided to get the GL in city #2 and for that I want to hook up marble fast. I don't need copper asap because there's few barbs on this kind of map. I went archery anyhow to protect against the few that do spawn.

City number four.

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Good food tile and fur to increase happy caps with 1. I prefer getting the grassland, plains and plainshill tiles over being able to work second fur here. This city will have good production for this kind of map and it will need all the food it can get. Also I want it to grow large with the GLH active. Working pigs + furs is only 2 food surplus so I put it in 3rd ring and can still trade it later.

Random shot:

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WB explored east to meet the rest, met Pacal this way.

5th city.

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Settle food and you will go far. Also blocking of another venue to my land and claiming ivory. As you can see a barb city spawned up north otherwise I would have settled there with my 4th but now I wait for better city-taking units.

6th.

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An argument can be made for 2s of corn but I want less overlap in this case so I can grow more.

City number 7, I don't know what I was smoking. :lol:

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Wow that's the most ******** city placement I've done in a long while. Well better here than in a deity game! I guess I was pretty much playing on autopilot without thinking here. :)
What happened to 2 offshore cities to get the most of GLH or getting a great food-farm on the hills?
Oh well this game was won in 1240 bc anyhow when GLH was completed.

Techshot:

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Some trades were done with Pacal and Cyrus. I'm midway to CS and have completed the GL and the NE in Edirne. Going for lib.
I got a GM first (mis-timed by 1 turn getting GS in Edirne) and he was settled in capital. Second GP was a GS that made an academy in Edirne.


 

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Spoiler :
Well, so far I think Abegweit has the best save. I thought mine was pretty strong but he basically did what I did only much better :) It's odd though. Japan built north of us in everyone's game except mine. I wonder why that is? Susa, a holy city, looks like an appetizing target off on an island by itself -- or at the very least a different island than its capital. :drool:

(That's supposed to be drooling. It looks more like a smiley with an electric tongue.)
 
Round 2 report:

Spoiler :

Writing in, Open Borders with Shaka and Cyrus.

Research set to Math for "super chopping" in Edirne and Hammams. Slider to 0%, waiting for libraries.

Great Lighthouse up in 1175BC.

Cyrus founds a city on triple Ivory... Grr. I'll go with Pig and Ivory site, but that city has to go!

Bursa founded. I finally get two libraries up, gold goes back to research.

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Oops, I realize we don't have Hunting and set it up after Math. :) Finishes in time with the road on the ivory.

War with Cyrus:

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I decide to keep the city, after all, Cyrus built another one for us up North. :)

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Aesthetics->Poly->Literature next. Aiming for the Literature wonders seems a good bet. Hopefully someone will research Alphabet and I'll be able to backfill it and Iron Working.

Cyrus has Longbows already, so I take peace.

Great Merchant is born, I bulb Currency with it. Set research to Construction+Horseback riding to take out Toku next.

Cyrus asks me to convert to Confucianism and I agree. Consequently some trades open up, and I can get Open Borders with him again.

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Iron in the capital, nice! :)

Konya founded:

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Great Library finished in Edirne. Set it to build NE.

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Construction and Horseback Riding in. Set research to Code of Laws.
GS born in Edirne the turn CoL finishes. Bulb Philosophy. Set research to Compass for Harbors and switch to Pacifism. (Confucian missionary is heading for Edirne) Edirne will pump out great people like there's no tomorrow. I could build the Parthenon too, and the Pyramids haven't been built either, but I have other priorities.

Samsun founded. Final city for now.

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Meet Pacal. Sell him Aesthetics after which he opens borders and trades:

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Too bad I had just switched to Pacifism. :lol:

Plan for next round:
- Instanbul finishes monasteries, the same in Edirne
- Bursa, Ankara build units
- we could get a Taoist and a Hindu missionary to Ecbatana, and set it to build the two monasteries and temples to further boost its culture. With some luck we won't have to fight Cyrus for Tharsus at all, although I doubt that that will happen. :lol:
- Toku has no copper, iron or ivory; we have 3 cats + 3 elephants near him, plus another elephant on the way. Should take him out as soon as possible.
- at some point we should switch to Hereditary Rule and Caste System
- tech path: finish Compass->Bureaucracy. We can probably afford to build an Academy in Edirne and still get enough GSs to bulb Paper and Education. If we research Metal Casting and not Machinery we can also bulb Liberalism.
 

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I have been waiting to see how you played your game G, since it seemed you and I were on a similar wavelength concerning the medium-term plan. Faster marble = faster GL in an solid GP farm city. I also found another fringe benefit from turning Eridine into the GL city, culture. We push the culture of Toku back another tile even faster, so now, anyone that wants to attack us by land will have to come through a long stretch of open tiles in our culture. This is pretty valuable, especially since I know we share a landmass with Shaka, and he is notorious for marching an army through open borders.
Wow that's the most ******** city placement I've done in a long while. Well better here than in a deity game! I guess I was pretty much playing on autopilot without thinking here. :)
LOL, what were you smokin! 1N of that spot is actually decent, still gets the sheet, but gets a Clam to jump-start the growth out of the gate.
Oh well this game was won in 1240 bc anyhow when GLH was completed.
This is what convinces me that the GLH is just too powerful a wonder. Any map where you can place 80%+ of your cities on the coast is basically over. Simple, fundamental play, which anyone who plays Emp level possesses anyway, is all it takes. Mehmed is actually one of the slowest leaders to build the GLH with, and still, no one had even the slightest trouble getting it.

Its fun though, I LOVE playing these until very late, but the game is essentially won.

Something I found interesting, your save also has a barb city on the Northern elephants, which keeps Cyrus from settling that spot. In this particular case, fog-busting HURT our position.

I do still plan to write up my actual game, since it is a bit different from most of the others (different and clearly inferior to most of the others I have looked at, heh, no top 3 for me this round, thats for sure!)just been pretty busy the past few days, and my SG turn is late already, so thats my excuse for the delays, heh.
 
Hi emperors! :hatsoff:,

My round to 400 AD:
Spoiler :
A short report because my GF (while playing civ too at occasions) find I spend too much time with you guys :rolleyes:...
My idea was to REX as much as possible to benefit from the GL (hum, no screenshot of this). So I settled 7 cities and captured one from barbs... for a total of 11.

I Teched writing, aesthetics, part of alpha (traded from Cyrus), meditation, priesthood, COL (founded in Edirne), part of Monarchy (traded from Cyrus), Civil Service, part of paper... I also bulbed Philo in 100 AD (:smoke:, I almost forgot the scientist! He slept during more than 200 years :lol:)

In 350BC, Toku asked Aesthetics...
Mehmet: no thanks, you should tech a little Toku...
Toku: :mad: as you want, see you soon...

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Sure enough, in 230 BC:

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I invited Shaka to the party, improving status to pleased, then made a small trade:

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The fun part is that Toku was busy with Shaka during all the war, I never see one of his unit :lol:

We also met another AI during the round:

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Once CS came in, I made two trades to backfill some important techs:

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The plan from this save would be quite simple... grow the cities (I whipped quite a lot), build HE, NE and Moai (trade for litterature or research it after paper), then finaly kill everyone (or do whatever you want)...

Some more screenies:
Techs:

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Power graph:

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Global view:

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Cheers,
Raskolnikov
 

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Something I found interesting, your save also has a barb city on the Northern elephants, which keeps Cyrus from settling that spot. In this particular case, fog-busting HURT our position.

Yeah like I said I would have settled the northern ivory 3rd if it weren't for the barb city, to block Cyrus, but this actually enabled a fast marble hookup instead for an early GL+NE city. Alot of my 400 AD save is preparing my economy to skyrocket but it doesn't really take off until the following round (400-1100 AD) as I start to spam GSs going after Lib and lay of the whip for more vertical growth. I agree these maps are fun on occasion, when you want a lighter challenge than the standard fractal/continents setup.

I actually think Mehmed is very well suited for the GLH though, his traits gives him cheap lighthouses and cheap harbors which are key buildings that you want in all your cities when you build your economy around it. The UB is also great for growing your cities big.
 
Another crappy report from me. Sorry.
Spoiler :
Finished GLh and REXed. Went straight for Currency, via Maths. Did a lot of tech and resource trading, and (eventually) used a GM to bulb CS. Edit: Oh, and I built the Colossus.

I made quite a few micromanagement errors (how many times can I forget to whip Monuments in new cities?!), but I'm fairly happy with my overall strategy.

Some screenies of the current situation:

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Mines is incomplete, I got Pee'd off at what happened,and didn't finish it.

Spoiler :
Emperor's Cook Book II

1st thing I do is familiarise myself with set up, cities, builds etc.

Once the worker is finished in capital, and the unhappiness has worn off, I send that worker to chop and mine the hill by the river, with the chop going into the settler. I plan to build to 1 turn to go, and whip settler, with overflow going into an axe escort. The copper mine is now finished and with a road and sailing, we access to copper in all cities. That city if building a workboat for the 1st boarder pop, and to give it time to reach the fish, while awaiting the boarder pop.

Settler is planned to go to the Ivory site, settling on one ivory to gain max resources for city.

All 3 cities finish builds of Axeman (capital) work boat-fish(Ankara) and work boat-clams (Eridine) with gold now online, all cities start building a library, with all able to support 2 scientists.


1000BC and Cyrus has BEATEN US to the Elephant city site. Now I'm pissed, he must have small amount of land to settle off shore so quickly. I rethink my 4th city site.

I decide to move down to settle below the capital, gaining the 2 spices and the corn, on a tundra hill, completing the fog busting south, and setting up the 2 fur/marble city as 5th , Fog busting warrior is moved down to the 2 fur/marble city site to fog bust. An early war against Cyrus is on the cards, as HE SETTLED OUR CITY SITE.

CyrusSettle0000.jpg


Axes are now the build of choice, Thank's to Cyrus, he's saved us 1 settler build.

Barb warrior spotted north of Eridine, went east towards Capital, wasn't distracted by a worker while heading that way and pillages a Pasture, building an axe 3 turns remaining, will kill barb and go to attack Cyrus. Building a road to Cyrus, Library put on hold for moment in capital.

770 BC. Cyrus converts to Judaism, but he's not the founder, we have another civ. 1st barb archer spotted on mine north of Eridine, axes are now built in place of Libraries, Though Eridine has finished its, 2 scientists hired, axe scheduled to be built.

Axeman whipped for 1 scientist, dont' want to lose city AT ALL, as Archer is at city gates, on corn farm.

Barb Archer and warrior are dispatched to north of Eridine, for the cost of a pillaged farm, barb warrior to west of Capital, dispatched for cost of Pasture, mine and road, all to be rebuilt. 4 axes should more than deal with Cyrus, Eridine will build Oracle, capital the Great Lighthouse, then start on Pyramids. Teching Mathematics for 50% chopping, then onto CoL's, setting up a civil service slingshot.

Monument chopped in Busra, pop 3 in Ankara, 2 scientists hired once library is completed in 16 turns. Eridine has 1 scientist, and shall build the Oracle now.

Ecbatana Size 2, 2 axes at boarders, 1 archer, Declare war, city settled 1 SE of where I'd like, but acceptable. Cyrus whips and archer, damm, pop 1 again, puts a spanner in works, I'm too rash, await further reinforcements.

Crash to desktop, reload game, and do same actions.

2nd Crash to desktop, Oracle just been BIADL, crashes when I go to look, but not available anymore.

3rd try, 2 more axes going north, 2 archers v's 4 axes, should win, prefer 5 to make sure.

3 archers now in city, I give it up...I wont' get selected. Too rash AGAIN.
 
Hang in there IPEX, I looked at your save last round and it was only a tad slower. You are getting the hang of it. All that LHC practice is paying off, its a good strat plan for "non-isolated isolation" which is almost what we have. But for a tiny strip of land, we would be.

Here is a big tip for going up a level. Diplomacy matters more. GP matters more. This is pretty applicable no matter what jump you are making, but Emp is where you really have to be more wary and quicker to get those GP out with early Writing + Library Scientists.
 
I updated BUG and am now using the unofficial patch too. Lots of cool new features in the last BUG :goodjob: I think this was after I played my game for this cookbook though.

Maybe it's time for me to try a full re-install of civ. I don't get any crashes but I can't access the full log. For example, I'm looking at Winston's game right and I can only see back to 310AD. Also instead of having actual text, my espionage screen is full of stuff like TXT_ESPIONAGE_SCREEN_SOMETHING and is impossible to read. That's another BUG bug which was supposed to have been fixed.
 
I should have attacked even at 1 pop, just sent more axes and declared. Or what I should have done is just peacefully rex, and wait till UU.

I'm too rash, crashes didn't help, I had a couple city sites selected. OH well, I wait till round 3.

On the marble site, why not settle south of the 2 fur's with 1 border pop, it gets marble to work, and you can pre-road to it. Sucks for food, but helps other cities in production.

Yes, more peaceful rex, and more tech trading, I suck at both.

On patches, I unload all mods, bug 3.5 and bat 1.0, though its updated 3.1 core for bug?? not sure of that one.
 
A comment about an error I've seen in several games.

We build lots of fishing villages in this game. The proper build order for early infra is Granary-Lighthouse-Monument. The city is going to get whipped each time it reaches size two.

Let's say that we have a city with one Clam. This then is the tile that will be worked. Presumably (hopefully) we brought a workboat from elsewhere. The granary doubles food surplus, effectively taking you from 6 food to 10. The lighthouse only takes you from 6 to 7. And there is no need for the monument yet as we are only working one tile. Perhaps we don't need it all. After all the additional culture can easily be had with a library and that's a building which actually has some value beyond culture.

The equation changes somewhat if you are organized but not expansive or if a border pop is badly needed. In the present situation the granary is always better than the lighthouse.
 
Finally finished my round--

I won't be submitting my save for votes--

Spoiler :
I want to admit, I reloaded out of frustration because I missed the GLH by one turn when I could have whipped. I did get super lucky with beating Cyrus out on city placement--which cost me the time I needed to finish the GLH legit. I guess we all do stuff like this sometimes, especially over things that are just so stupid. But, reloading goes against the nature of the rules, so I won't be submitting this save for votes...


We will start voting tomorrow sometime.

Here is how my round went (with comment about when I re-loaded)...

Spoiler :


I just looked back at other people's rounds to get some perspective on where I stand, and I think I got super lucky because of a semi-stupid mistake...

I finished up the worker in Istanbul, and a few turns later decided--hey I want a settler so I can go up and claim that elephant and get the happiness bonus. After a turn or two I started to doubt the wisdom of this decision(especially when I realized that I didn't have camping yet!). But I was already committed, so I chopped a few forest right around Istanbul and sent my little settler on his way. When I got him to his spot, I saw Cyrus's galley which I am sure was bringing a settler... but I beat him!!

So, I was able to found Bursa on the Elephants/Pig/Corn spot. This ended up really slowing my progress on the GLH down (which ended up making me have to reload when I missed it by 1 turn and could have whipped), but I think it was worth it (though sucks that I can't honestly submit this round for a vote).

Whipped the GLH in 950 BC.

I also had some trouble with roving barb galleys destroying my fishing boats--so I ended up wasting time building several galleys trying to defend myself.

After getting Writing I started building some Libs where I could, and teched towards Literature.

Finished the GLH in 950 BC.

Also, at some point around here, Istanbul popped a great scientist and I used him to bulb math (yay chopping bonus!)

Konya (Elephant/Pig site) was settled around 350 BC.

I took poor notes so I can't tell exactly what I teched next, but it was either alphabet or iron working. Found the iron next to Istanbul--which helped me finish up the Great Library in 205 AD.

Alphabet let me backfill my tech tree a bit, which was nice.

Then I teched metal casting and used the woods around Edirne to build forge and Colossus pretty quickly, and got that done in 205 AD as well (a busy year!)

Metal casting is always great to trade, and I was able to get calendar and monarchy (and some other backfill stuff and money) in pretty even trades.

Towards the end of the round, I realized I really needed to get some new cities going. I settled Samsun (fur/pigs) in 310 AD and Giziantep (Clams/Sheep on island to SE of Istanbul) in 340 AD.

I am a little behind tech wise--I am just not all that good at figuring out when to use those library scientists and when not to use them.

I am working on the Parthenon in Istanbul since it wasn't built (11 more turns). I debated a bit about the Moai Statues, but finally decided to start building them in Edirne because of the nice lake, (18 turns).

Also, Saladin is a 'freed' colony of Cyrus.

Screenshots:

Tech situation:

Spoiler :
Civ4ScreenShot0003-1.jpg


Land situation:

Spoiler :
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Hi guys!

@Abegweit: Good point about the fishing village build order...
I was under the impression that as you whip just after the growth to size two both the lighthouse and the granary, order don't really matter as the granary WON'T BE full after its completion, thus even if you build it first, the growth rate won't be dobled while growing to size two again...
Thus I built lighthouses first too... am I wrong (about how the granary work)?
Tx to bring the subject though, as I always hesitate on this...

Cheers
 
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