Emperor Cookbook V: Saladin

[Lansky]

bleh too many saves

#1 RJM
#2 Leventis
#3 Chrom

 

[assass1n]

My votes

1. king morgan
2. lansky
3. ChromiumL

 

[Perplexity]

Humph well I'm a little bitter that nobody liked mine. I thought 4 cities + stonehenge was pretty nice. But I'll get over it and vote anyway. I'm going to choose among the saves with an early religion, since I basically never get one and I'm curious to play something different.

So I think that's just ChromiumL, Gumbolt, and King Morgan (since Shyuhe withdrew his).

King Morgan -- don't like the expansion away from opponents rather than towards
ChromiumL and Gumbolt look very similar indeed to me. I'll go with Chromium, slightly better city placement imo.

So:

1) ChromiumL
2) Gumbolt
3) King Morgan

 

[KingMorgan]

Sorry for the slow voting.

1. RRRash
2. MKLh
3. Gumbolt

(I wish i could withdraw my game because it is too good)

 

[RJM]

Humph well I'm a little bitter that nobody liked mine. I thought 4 cities + stonehenge was pretty nice. But I'll get over it and vote anyway.

This is my take on your save:

Having built four cities is a good, although 2 of them are not yet contributing much, and even Medina doesn't have a great deal going for it. You have blocked off a good expanse of territory. However, as a result of your expansion, your research rate is rather low and by the time you finish alphabet, you may not have too much to trade. It will be quite a while before you have access to copper or iron and another city to hook up the horses will hit your economy. Archery is 10 turns away, even if you switched now. You could end up having to defend against barbs with just warriors. Stonehenge is a goodish wonder. The culture will help secure your territory, but you are a long way from a great prophet. It is by no means a bad save (I certainly rated it better than mine because of the expansion), but there were a lot of others to choos from.

RJM

 

[RJM]

Sorry for the slow voting.

1. RRRash
2. MKLh
3. Gumbolt

(I wish i could withdraw my game because it is too good)

I thought RRRaskolnikov withdrew his save; if he didn't, I would have voted for it.

RJM

 

[ChromiumL]

If you request, I will do. No votes for my save please.

I probably should have made it more clear about who had withdrawn their saves. Sorry about that.

 

[Perplexity]

When are you going to close voting?

 

[ChromiumL]

Right now .

Here are my votes:
3rd - MkLh - Oracle would be better than stonehenge, but not building monuments is nice. I really like the city placement, especially the copper city (i'm not sure how I missed that!). Barb is annoying, but not a real issue in the long run.
2nd- King Morgan - Good save overall. I would prefer to see Medina in the fish/copper spot. Great exploration, and I am curious about how a feudalism slingshot would work out--never seen it before.
3rd - Lansky - Probably a bit too good. It would definitely be too good if you already had 3 cities!

So that brings the vote to:

11 points - MkLh
9 points - King Morgan
8 points - Lansky
7 points - Chromium
3 points - RJM
3 points - Gumbolt
2 points - Timmy
2 points - Leventis

Congratulations MkLh!! We will be continuing with his save.

The next round is through 400 AD, and will end on Sunday. Good luck on the next round everyone .

 

[Gumbolt]

Right now .

Here are my votes:
3rd - MkLh - Oracle would be better than stonehenge, but not building monuments is nice. I really like the city placement, especially the copper city (i'm not sure how I missed that!). Barb is annoying, but not a real issue in the long run.
2nd- King Morgan - Good save overall. I would prefer to see Medina in the fish/copper spot. Great exploration, and I am curious about how a feudalism slingshot would work out--never seen it before.
3rd - Lansky - Probably a bit too good. It would definitely be too good if you already had 3 cities!

So that brings the vote to:

11 points - MkLh
9 points - King Morgan
8 points - Lansky
7 points - Chromium
3 points - RJM
3 points - Gumbolt
2 points - Timmy
2 points - Leventis

Congratulations MkLh!! We will be continuing with his save.

The next round is through 400 AD, and will end on Sunday. Good luck on the next round everyone .

Thats a very short round! I will need to submit tonight as I am off line come tomorrow. Will try to post a round if I can.

 

[KingMorgan]

Ah, wasn't sure if RRR's save was in or out, so thought i'd have a vote for it anyhow, i wasn't the only one not paying attention

Well done to MkLh, good save which i will play right now!

 

[dirtyparrot]

I meant to do this sooner, but write down my ranking. I can't remember who has withdrawn their games, so if I include an invalid game ignore that selection.

1. Raskolnilov
2. MkLh
3. Can't come up with a 3rd, it's between helemaalnicks, leventis, ChromiumL.

I just realized that the voting was completed. Nevermind what I just wrote. I might continue with my save and shadow or might do both. In the interest of fairness, if I do both, I'll play the public save 1st. I'll probably wait a few days (hopefully by then I forgot most of the details) and then play my own save.

 

[Perplexity]

My report, heh. Logging and just one screenshot at end.

Spoiler :

Logging by BUG Mod 3.6 [Build 1696] (BtS 3.13-3.17)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 100/750 (1500 BC) [25-Mar-2009 18:17:03]
Hope that the barb archer will attack and lose to mecca axeman.

Unqueue medina barracks.

Shuffle workers around.

Note that we're not in Slavery. Don't understand why we're researching CoL so switch to Fishing for Medina.
Research begun: Fishing (7 Turns)

Turn 101/750 (1475 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:04:27]
60% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 4 per turn, 1 in the bank

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Arabian territory at Mecca, Axeman 1 (Medina) (2.75/5) defeats Barbarian Archer (Prob Victory: 94.8%)

Good.

Turn 102/750 (1450 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:06:33]
60% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 4 per turn, 5 in the bank

Turn 103/750 (1425 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:08:20]
60% Research: 18 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 4 per turn, 9 in the bank
While attacking in Arabian territory near Medina, Axeman 1 (Medina) (0.80/5) defeats Barbarian Warrior (Prob Victory: 87.3%)

After End Turn:
Mecca finishes: Granary
Medina finishes: Axeman
Damascus grows to size 3
Damascus's borders expand

Turn 104/750 (1400 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:08:49]
60% Research: 19 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
40% Gold: 3 per turn, 13 in the bank
Mecca begins: Settler (10 turns)
Medina begins: Granary (12 turns)
One turn of granary then will switch to WB when fishing comes in.
Axeman 1 (Medina) (Axeman) promoted: Combat I



After End Turn:
Tech research finished: Fishing

Turn 105/750 (1375 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:11:10]
70% Research: 22 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
30% Gold: 1 per turn, 14 in the bank
Research begun: Masonry (6 Turns)
Medina begins: Work Boat (6 turns)

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Arabian territory near Mecca, Axeman 1 (Medina) loses to Barbarian Archer (3.00/3) (Prob Victory: 90.8%)

Lose as a 90.8% favorite.

Turn 106/750 (1350 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:12:07]
70% Research: 22 per turn
0% Espionage: 4 per turn
30% Gold: 1 per turn, 15 in the bank

Logging by BUG Mod 3.6 [Build 1696] (BtS 3.13-3.17)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 106/750 (1350 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:12:32]

Logging by BUG Mod 3.6 [Build 1696] (BtS 3.13-3.17)
------------------------------------------------
Turn 106/750 (1350 BC) [25-Mar-2009 19:12:35]

After End Turn:

Other Player Actions:
While defending in Arabian territory at Mecca, Warrior 2 (Mecca) loses to Barbarian Archer (1.11/3) (Prob Victory: 67.2%)
Mecca lost

Lose as a 67.2% favorite.

Sigh.

 

[Gumbolt]

@ Perplex. Chrom said he wanted a challenge. You could of chopped an axe in another city once you have slavery. Not sure why you lost medina. (hardly a spoiler)

Going forward it does seem attack is the most obvious option. The other Ai are plain nasty!!! Most of the city locations eastwards will probably have barb cities sooner or later. Plus Shaka will attack someone sooner or later. The current game set up is geared for that approach.

Just called up BT. Helpful as ever. I now have no phoneline till 3rd April. So no broadband till least the 6/7th. That rules me out of this round. Although i could view screenshots at another house.

I think it would be unfair really to post a save if i am unlikely to vote on them. I may join the next round.

 

[ChromiumL]

If the round is too short, we can make it a little longer--the 1500 BC to 400 AD is always long anyways. Why don't we give one more day and go 'till Monday.

 

[assass1n]

Second Round

Spoiler :

Shaka captured Barb city and wasted exactly zero troops on it and as soon as I got city next to barb he went WHEOOHRN I started building axes but he declared immediately and took Baghdad I spammed axes took back Baghdad and bribed Musa into war I haven't met Genghis but I think he dogpiled MM as MM is still in WHEOOHRN
I got pissed with Shaka's DoW and just didn't bother with screenshots
I have 3 religion (Confu , Tao , Christianity) no Hindu spread to lands and it won't as all my cities are Confu/Tao/Christian and I have the Confu shrine
Bulbed Philosophy and researching Currency now
Have 8 cities though Bulawayo might face cultural pressure
Tried cycle but Shaka forced me into Slavery
Here's the save

View attachment Emperor Cookbook assass1n AD-0400.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[Lansky]

Round Two!

Long Version-

Spoiler :

Immediately swap to slavery and begin to whip away all of these silly population points. The archer was of no consequence at all as it runs off the hill then suicides into the axe I put onto the hill the next turn. Shaka immediately grabs the eastern barb city. He is much more powerful in this save. So I devote this round to a few goals.

1. Killing Shaka
2. Bending over backwards for Gilgamesh – Want him Friendly
3. Keeping Mansa Musa alive and yet more hated than me by Ghengis.

Decide to stop research on CoL and start in on Metal Casting. It’s a large tech but the extra production and happiness will pay off when the war with Shaka starts. This early it is also immensely popular with the AI’s as trade bait. Mecca begins on the Oracle once the granary is done, which leads to something I’ve certainly never done before: The Machinery Slingshot.

The only city I found is next- Baghdad. Settle it the same place I had a city in my game. Shares corn/hills with Mecca and gains marble/cows while being riverside. Every city gets a forge (probably stupid for Damascus, but it never hurts I guess), granary, and barracks. Then units are put in queue. Shaka founds a city right where I want the next one (Ondini) and once it hits size two I declare and capture it. No clue what his army is like but crossbows this early has to be superior, and well they are. As the round ends I am in the middle of fleecing Shaka. So far catapults have only been to bombard as the crossbows and swords have had 70%+ odds in every battle. The best unit Shaka has had so far have been catapults. Might see an elephant before its all over, but even then it should be too little too late. The only casualty as of yet is an axe to a barb. Baghdad has a Great General sitting in it. I was going to settle as I already have a level 4 medic2 axe from barbs/war, but figured I’d let everyone potentially make their own decision about what to do with him seeing as how he spawned 4 turns before the end of the round.

The Army:

Tech wise it has slowed down a lot due to the war – duh eh? Mecca has produced two Great Scientists, which I used to give Mecca and Damascus academies. Mecca is getting 4 or 5 villages ready for when Bureaucracy is done being researched. By then the economy will surely need it. At the current rate the next great person will come in 40 turns and will have very high odds of being either an Engineer or Scientist. Due to really high barb activity and some bad luck with an axe scout no foreign trade is open with Gilgamesh due to a lack of scouting. A trireme is currently on the way to remedy that and a spy is heading off towards Shaka and then to hopefully map out the rest of the continent. The current tech picture looks like so.

Diplomacy went fairly well. The entire continent is Jewish and until the previous turn when Bulawayo was captured I didn’t have a Jewish city so the empire is still in paganism. Despite that Gilgamesh will be friendly in a few turns and Ghengis certainly hates Mansa a lot more than he hates me.

Ghengis has a large Kheshik army but is so backwards that he will not be a long term threat. Mansa is decent tech wise but is Genghis’’ punching bag. He’ll likely declare on Mansa in a few turns in which a few free diplomacy points could be nabbed if really needed. Cannot trade with Mansa anyway because he is Genghis’ worst enemy and until recently Gilgamesh’s as well so we agreed to end trade relations. Mansa is still sore over that one.

And of course a screenshot of the current empire.

Short version-

Spoiler :

Downsides: Only 7 cities and even after acquiring Shaka distance penalties will need to be overcome and while at tech parity the tech pace is rapidly declining. Third GP not due for a bit. Scouting is lackluster at best.

Upsides: The 7 cities will turn into 10+ once Shaka has been dealt with, which involves moving an army already good to go. Gilgamesh will be friendly in a few turns once the religion and civic modifiers tick up or he asks for some sort of help.

 

[KingMorgan]

Ding,Ding - Round 2

Spoiler :

Not a bad round, headed up the CS route to Lib, had to reconsider my religion as Shaka wasn't too happy, SPI is useful

Missed MoM by a few turns, still nice pile of gold. Unfortunate border pop from manus killed my trades with Gilaga, hence the slight unhappiness. A swift road will allow the deals to be remade. Drama could be cancelled although you may want to shoot for Music.

Relations are good, save manus - faux war to keep gilga and Shaka happy, not too worried as i'd like his cities on my borders - cheeky of him to capture them. GLib and Path are nearly done, looks like an easy Lib, i'd be tempted to take steel if the situation allows.

View attachment KingM AD-0400.CivBeyondSwordSave

 

[IPEX-731BA5DD06]

Round 2​

Once again, I start off by reviewing the cities, builds, troops and land.

Spoiler :

1st thing I do is adopt Slavery and whip out those Granaries. Next up will be further Settlers and axemen to take that barb city to the SE, but first I must deal with the barb archer.

Damm barb archer, moved off the gold, and went for our bronze, I moved out axeman, 1 square to stop him coming back for the warrior, and was attacked winning.

Whipped Granary, whipped barracks followed by axe, then Granary in Medina, and whipping Granary in Damascus.

I have a moment, moving the injured axeman atop the gold mine at 2 strength, I lose to the barb warrior, cleaning it up with the other warrior, 22.4% for the attacker. Archer attacked at 25% and wiped out 3 points off the axeman. 2 times in a row.

Lose a 2nd axeman now at 69% odds attacking a barb archer on a mine for extra points. Now back to 3 warriors only.

I build a road on the gold, which didn't have one. (Pillaged??) link cities via roads not crossing rivers, building Madrassers now then settler wave.

1st Great Scientist is born, settle into city for 6 Beakers recurring, as I plan on whipping some more and losing scientist. Bulb Mathematics, no stone, double chops Hmm No.

975 BC I try for the Ocacle in Medina, don't expect to get it, but gold would be nice, looks like we'll found Confucianism. Building Settler and axeman now.

850 BC We found both Confucianism and Baghdad, Confucianism was actually founded in Damascus, Spread it to Mansa to start some war's back East.

I have to research Masonry to build the marble Quarry, to build the Oracle quicker, I think about 6 turns of less on Monotheism, but wont' matter in time. Mathematics it is. Damascus grew into 1 unhappy at 5, so is now building a settler while awaiting the removal of whipping anger.

575 BC I fall 4 turns short of the Oracle, I was looking at taking Civil Service with it. Could have whipped for 2, but 2 short of Mathematics, the stop to Masonry which speed up Oracle...BAH...More failure cash, more 100% research.

Nb: In hindsight, I should have done this, Bulbed Mathematics with the great Scientist, but I REALLY didn't expect to even get close to Oracle, and for a civil Service Sling shot...NO WAY!!!!!

395 BC I make the following trade with Mansa.

Spoiler :

I now look to trade with the others.

Looks like Gilgamesh built the Oracle, 2 turns , and won't trade Metal casting, building the Colossus are you?? Khan has nothing worthwhile, so Mansa has nothing to trade CoL's for We have iron in our city, as I'm sure you know, in Mable city, which I settled. Looking to take Mansa Barbarian Acquisition from him now.

260 AD Gilgamesh has declared on Mansa, I whip swords for 2 pop in most cities, and prepare to declare myself. I've refused demands from Gilgamesh and Khan for Mathematics and writing respectively. Now I want mutual war bonuses with Gilgamesh, and Mansa's Ex-Barb city.

Next turn who comes on by, none other then Gilgamesh, asking for a war ally, 4 turns too early, but can't refuse that smiling face.

110 BC [The Battle of Teoihuacan]

The first sword rushed the battlements, swinging furishly, and WINS at 20% battle odds, our forlorn hope has made the breach in the battlements. The 2nd sword wins as well, our troops are taking objective with minimal losses.

The 3rd group doesn't reach its objective, setting back our battle plans. The next 2 swords fall attacking Skirmishers, allowing the final sword to win and the axe to win. The City is now doomed, at 1 population, with only an injured Skirmishers troops guarding the city, the war is over next turn.

95 BC The war is WON, we have achieved all objectives, and now await peace, 1 turn on Monarchy, then couple into Currency, and peace for Currency. Workers are needed to rebuild our economy, Great Library is being built in Mecca, Parthenon in Damascus our war city. 2 river side wineries are to begin construction next turn. For the loss of 3 swords, we've achieved much.

Spoiler :

I also make the following trade to Gilgamesh.

Spoiler :

115 AD I come across the city of Bantu, chasing a barb worker, I don't have enough troops to take the city, and looks like Shaka will beat me to it, if he doesn't I'll snag it our from underneath him, if not..oh well, maybe a war declaration..maybe not.

Spoiler :

145 AD I have a heart attack , as the barb axeman I saw earlier going to Bantu, is at the gates of the future Bureaucracy capital, but I've sent an axeaman to back up the sword I have there.

175 AD The barb axeman attacks and at 20% odds beats a 9/10 swordsman. ARRRGGGHHH..I clean up with the axe.

205 AD I snake out Bantu from underneath Shaka's troops.., I now need twice as many workers and to save the economy. 30 turns on civil service. Bantu's 1 off the coast, but at size 5 and saving 1 settler I elect to keep it. Developed farms/pastures and 2 workers helps as well.

235 AD I make peace with Mansa, as he had a sword at the gates of Bureaucracy capital, and I only had a warrior guarding the city, as the axe went north to Bantu to help take the city. I need more workers, axes, Archers to guard cities, and recovery of Economy.

Spoiler :

400 AD I trade Aesthetics to Genghis Khan for Horse back riding and 20 gold, as he doesn't have gold we still can build Shwedagon Paya, as I don't have Hinduism, that would be a excellent idea.

9 cities as of 400 AD, not great, but 3 taken in war, 1 from Mansa, 2 from the Barbs with 1 of those from under Shaka's nose.

Spoiler :

Overall, poorly played I feel, as I crashed economy and am still inching to Civil Service, which I was looking at getting from Oracle, but for Gilgamesh and 2 turns.

12 workers, weak army, some good cities, some average. Signified Bureaucracy Capital site. Archers x 2 coming online next turn, courthouses being built.

On tech's Shaka has Feudalism , rest seem to be not teching much at moment, about to explode I think. Mansa has Machinery as well.

Average effort, I whipped a lot, setting the stage I feel, winnable from here, really any save its winnable from UNLESS you've had some major bad luck.

Spoiler :

Build the Great Library, Parthenon, should build the Shwedagon Paya (forgot till now), 2 don't have Aesthetics as yet. 3 don't have currency. Tech in hole, economy needs to recover.

I've done a lot of whipping with overflow into either workers, forges, courthouses or even troops.

Still haven't adopted a religion, only have Confucianism and Christianity.

Enjoy.View attachment 208519

On the best selection mode, I feel we are doing ourselves a disservice, by constantly selecting the best save, we end up with a better and better position. I feel it'd be best to select a challenging or most interesting save, not to win game from, but to develop gaming skills. You learn little by having it all given to you, just to expect a silver platter lifestyle.

 

[Leventis]

Round 2: 1500BC - 400AD

Spoiler :

I decided to stick with the current tech path (CoL), figuring there was a chance of scoring an early GProphet from the wonders anyway. In the meantime, I switched to slavery and whipped The Oracle to completion.

I chose Monarchy, since I figured it would be good for trading and especially for Hereditary Rule. I intended on building a lot of units to capture barb cities/fogbust/keep my power rating up anyway. Meantime, CoL had given us Confucianism, and I promptly built the shrine courtesy of the GP from the capital.

2nd civics change, abusing the Spiritual trait:

Now diplomatically I wanted to keep Shaka off my back for a while, and I noticed he had no religion yet, so I obliged him and sent our missionary south:

And a few turns later we are both Confucian . Turned out to be a smart move, because he was getting feisty:

I indulged him and joined in -- Mansa was in no position to hurt me and Shaka would more than keep him busy. Just did it for the positive diplo with the Shaka, which soon got him to pleased. Meantime, I started using Gilgamesh as a trading partner, getting a pretty sweet trade with monarchy:

With the neighbours busy butting heads, I began expanding more, firstly taking that barb city to the south...

... and then the one out east:

By now Mansa had taken peace with me and I was at pleased with both Shaka and Gilgamesh, which was very nice indeed. I used them in a few more trades:

Continued to expand, settling Najran in the north for wine (no screenie), and by taking barb cities, opening up the HE in the process:

I adopted OR, and got yet another Great Prophet when I really wanted a GS for an academy. I settled him anyway:

And that's where things ended for the round. Great Library and Heroic Epic are all but finished:

Civil Service is 7 turns away, economy is fine and getting stronger all the time. Have a strong military, using the marble city as the main unit pump. Diplomatically, things are great -- Shaka and Genghis hate Mansa, and Gilgamesh is a bit of a fence sitter, but pleased with me also.

Finally, a look at our lands: