Abegweit
Anarchist trader
That's not the explanation either. Cracking the game won't slow it down.
Emperor Cookbook V: Saladin
- Thread starter ChromiumL
- Start date
IPEX-731BA5DD06
Deity
Emperor's CookBook V
Saladin, the Sprititual, and away we go to 1500 BC
Spoiler :
dirtyparrot
Upholding Brannigan's Law
- Joined
- Oct 6, 2005
- Messages
- 1,841
Spoiler :
Spoiler :
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
General comments:
It seems that the popular 1E spot runs into city placement problems that the minority of us who chose other locations didnt have. This is, of course, completely a matter of luck but it remains true. It makes it awkward to bring the copper online and devalues the other gold site. I think that helemaalnicks and MLH found the best solution to the copper problem but even that it not ideal. RRR, shyuhe and I (among others) will have a powerful clam-fish village to the west. This location is far less valuable in the 1E games because the fish is lost.
This game also illustrates the importance of bringing rare metals online. Every game which is making more than 20 BPT has Mecca and Medina located at the two gold sites.
Comments on the individual saves:
Man we have a lot of them!
IPEX 16 bpt Stoney Barracks 2 cities 7 pop, 2 cities 9 techs. Not close to either Bronze or Archery and the barbs are on the prowl. Quite honestly, we are in serious danger.
ChromiumL 26 bpt Monastery Monument 8 pop, 3 cities. 12 techs. Buddhism. Good overall development. No sign of getting metal online. Has archery (AKA two useless techs) to compensate.
Perplexity 11 bpt Stony Madrassa 9 pop. 8 techs. 4 cities. Very nice! Only game with this many. Disagree strongly with placement of Damascus, however. It will never to able to work the gold as it lacks food. It should have been on the plains hill 4 west. It should also have been called Medina
Abegweit 27 bpt Stony Madrassa 9 pop 3 cities. 11 techs. Oracle on the way. Woody III warrior. Powerful production capital and Medina will be very nice too.
RRR 33 bpt 9 pop 3 cities. 11 techs, although I have to disagree with the choices. Best tech rate of all. Vive les cottages!
Dirtyparrot 23 bpt Granary, 6 pop, 2 cities + settler, 10 techs, only one worker. Good placement of cities.
Champ82 16 bpt Barracks, Monument, 6 pop, 2 cities + settler, 11 techs, Oracle on the way.
Gumbolt 24 bpt 9 pop, 3 cities, 10 techs, Buddhism, Oracle nearly finished. Lost the fish and crab
Soirana 24 bpt Madrassa 8 pop, 3 cities, Oracle on the way. 15 techs incl Alpha and IW. The Alpha gambit obviously worked out very well!
King Morgan 16 bpt 10 pop, 3 cities, 8 techs, Hinduism, Oracle on the way. Only one worker. Working too many undeveloped tiles.
Shyuhe 19 bpt Granary, 9 pop, 3 cities, 10 techs, Oracle on the way, Hinduism. I disagree with the placement of all three cities. Possibly the positions were chosen to avoid having to pop borders? Nice to see three workers and a fourth almost finished.
RJM 24 bpt Madrassa 5 pop 3 cities, 10 techs. I have to disagree with the builds. Damascus and Mecca need Granaries and the civ needs workers.
Hele 18 bpt Barracks Monument * 2, 8 pop 3 cities, 9 techs. May well get a Woody III on the next round.
Why does Mecca have an irrigated FP when both corn arent 
MLH 20 bpt Madrassa Stony, 11 pop 3 cities, 10 techs. Having barb problems but nothing serious as he has an axe. This game should turn around real quick. Medina should be building a workboat. One axe is enough for now.
Assass1n 16 bpt Stony, 7 pop 3 cities, 10 techs. I have to disagree with city placement. Heles Medina is better-placed.
Leventis 13 bpt Madrassa 8 pop 3 cities, 9 techs. Once again, city placement issues.
Timmy82 19 bpt Monument, 3 cities, + settler, 11 techs
Votes:
The best game clearly belongs to Soirana with the brilliant alphabet gambit that paid off handsomely. Other games may be better in other respects but this overshadows them. Unfortunately this game is not in the running so .
3 pts MLH Copper is online and has an axe. Has Stonehenge and a Madrassa. I like the scientists in the capital. The barb problems are temporary and soon will be over. The second gold will soon be online. Its late but its soon.
2 pts RRR Nice capital with cottages well under way. Copper is online and Medina is coming along as well. Has the best tech rate of all. There is a lack of productive capability however.
1 pt ChromiumL Nice overall development. Medina is much further developed than in other two games due undoubtedly to his having snatched Buddhism. The lack of metal is a serious drawback however. I do not like defending against barbs with archers. Nor do I like researching hunting when I have nothing to camp.
Honourable mention to Gumbolt for a good solid game but loosing the fish and crab, while understandable, simply devalues the save too much.
It seems that the popular 1E spot runs into city placement problems that the minority of us who chose other locations didnt have. This is, of course, completely a matter of luck but it remains true. It makes it awkward to bring the copper online and devalues the other gold site. I think that helemaalnicks and MLH found the best solution to the copper problem but even that it not ideal. RRR, shyuhe and I (among others) will have a powerful clam-fish village to the west. This location is far less valuable in the 1E games because the fish is lost.
This game also illustrates the importance of bringing rare metals online. Every game which is making more than 20 BPT has Mecca and Medina located at the two gold sites.
Comments on the individual saves:
Man we have a lot of them!
IPEX 16 bpt Stoney Barracks 2 cities 7 pop, 2 cities 9 techs. Not close to either Bronze or Archery and the barbs are on the prowl. Quite honestly, we are in serious danger.
ChromiumL 26 bpt Monastery Monument 8 pop, 3 cities. 12 techs. Buddhism. Good overall development. No sign of getting metal online. Has archery (AKA two useless techs) to compensate.
Perplexity 11 bpt Stony Madrassa 9 pop. 8 techs. 4 cities. Very nice! Only game with this many. Disagree strongly with placement of Damascus, however. It will never to able to work the gold as it lacks food. It should have been on the plains hill 4 west. It should also have been called Medina
Abegweit 27 bpt Stony Madrassa 9 pop 3 cities. 11 techs. Oracle on the way. Woody III warrior. Powerful production capital and Medina will be very nice too.
RRR 33 bpt 9 pop 3 cities. 11 techs, although I have to disagree with the choices. Best tech rate of all. Vive les cottages!
Dirtyparrot 23 bpt Granary, 6 pop, 2 cities + settler, 10 techs, only one worker. Good placement of cities.
Champ82 16 bpt Barracks, Monument, 6 pop, 2 cities + settler, 11 techs, Oracle on the way.
Gumbolt 24 bpt 9 pop, 3 cities, 10 techs, Buddhism, Oracle nearly finished. Lost the fish and crab
Soirana 24 bpt Madrassa 8 pop, 3 cities, Oracle on the way. 15 techs incl Alpha and IW. The Alpha gambit obviously worked out very well!
King Morgan 16 bpt 10 pop, 3 cities, 8 techs, Hinduism, Oracle on the way. Only one worker. Working too many undeveloped tiles.
Shyuhe 19 bpt Granary, 9 pop, 3 cities, 10 techs, Oracle on the way, Hinduism. I disagree with the placement of all three cities. Possibly the positions were chosen to avoid having to pop borders? Nice to see three workers and a fourth almost finished.
RJM 24 bpt Madrassa 5 pop 3 cities, 10 techs. I have to disagree with the builds. Damascus and Mecca need Granaries and the civ needs workers.
Hele 18 bpt Barracks Monument * 2, 8 pop 3 cities, 9 techs. May well get a Woody III on the next round.
Why does Mecca have an irrigated FP when both corn arent MLH 20 bpt Madrassa Stony, 11 pop 3 cities, 10 techs. Having barb problems but nothing serious as he has an axe. This game should turn around real quick. Medina should be building a workboat. One axe is enough for now.
Assass1n 16 bpt Stony, 7 pop 3 cities, 10 techs. I have to disagree with city placement. Heles Medina is better-placed.
Leventis 13 bpt Madrassa 8 pop 3 cities, 9 techs. Once again, city placement issues.
Timmy82 19 bpt Monument, 3 cities, + settler, 11 techs
Votes:
The best game clearly belongs to Soirana with the brilliant alphabet gambit that paid off handsomely. Other games may be better in other respects but this overshadows them. Unfortunately this game is not in the running so .
3 pts MLH Copper is online and has an axe. Has Stonehenge and a Madrassa. I like the scientists in the capital. The barb problems are temporary and soon will be over. The second gold will soon be online. Its late but its soon.
2 pts RRR Nice capital with cottages well under way. Copper is online and Medina is coming along as well. Has the best tech rate of all. There is a lack of productive capability however.
1 pt ChromiumL Nice overall development. Medina is much further developed than in other two games due undoubtedly to his having snatched Buddhism. The lack of metal is a serious drawback however. I do not like defending against barbs with archers. Nor do I like researching hunting when I have nothing to camp.
Honourable mention to Gumbolt for a good solid game but loosing the fish and crab, while understandable, simply devalues the save too much.
There's nothing to stop us choosing Soirana's save is there?
BTW, a number of saves have not adopted slavery. As a spiritual civ, this is not an issue, but since events are turned off, I wonder why not.
RJM
IIRC, slavery is tad more expensive...
And i think we went through the policy of shadows at time Dave showed how to use Keshiks properly. If that causes any problems I will simply delete my save and make few screenshots instead.
And i think we went through the policy of shadows at time Dave showed how to use Keshiks properly. If that causes any problems I will simply delete my save and make few screenshots instead.
Slavery is a tad more expensive, and as a spiritual civ I can understand waiting until your ready for your first whip before switching. On the other hand, I would have expected the benefit of whipping to outweigh the small increase in civic cost.
I don't remember the "policy of shadows" discussion. (I'm afraid there are an increasing number of things I don't remember. Actually, I don't remember how a shadow differs from a regular save either - perhaps you can remind me.)
RJM
To be fair i could of traded Alphabet for 2 techs so counting techs isnt a great guide here. I think anyone with alphabet or on way to monarchy will have done well. Oracle in itself is another tech. If you want to value techs perhaps you should add a weighting to them. Alpabet is over 700 hammers. mining is 120ish. So I might value fishing/mining/hunting/agr as 1pt. AH/BW/Sailing/Writing as 2/3. Then monarchy /alphbet 5-7 with IW as 4. You can normally judge by the overall civ score how techs have advanced anyway. You might also grade them on importance although this will differ map to map.
I saved the alphabet trade for mansa to get IW! Also it leaves options open for others if the save went through! The 2 sea resources were a shame but i did get the religion. If I take COL one of my three cities will have 2 religions and this will bode well for spreading them. Its not clear yet if any other religion has been found on my continent. In terms of barbs the mountain ranges help as a nice border and the coastline protects my rear.
It could be in my interest to delay the Oracle but not sure how far down tech tree i could reach. I might even be able to bulb theology with a GP. The Madrassa will speed this up. One of the big advantages of my saves over others is I have not chopped a single forest to date. As maths comes in this will yield greater hammers.
In terms of soirana saves. I respect fact he wants to shadow. Its always interesting to see what him and Shuhe can do on these games. Keep posting the saves.
Its about learning a higher level right?? The more saves to compare the better. The Alphabet gambit was good on his.
Not sure on the voting side yet.
Its almost a shame you didnt go for a religion too. A religion offers the same culture as a monument. The plus side is an early spread religion can yield 20-30 base gold a turn with a holy city. That being said with your production city and HE with lots of units you can probably capture a holy city anyway. Sh would offer 16 culture and 2 GPTS too.
You are of course relying on the religion spreading to all your cities. I had no problem there.
I guess this would of slowed down the forest chopping you had planned. Its all plains and simple now. hehe.
as spiritual tou might switch off it again if not planing to whip in next five turns. Playing spiritual properly is good juggling with civics, actually things like Paya or Mids are becoming more powerfull
IIRC, that was due to some players clearly not being learning emperor... Offline I am playing immortal only. I'd guees Raskolnikov, shyuhe and Abegweit are at very least solid immortal players.
Nobody says these cannot participate, but they are left with right to take their saves out of voting. Call it "shadow" or whatever you like.
I actually liked reading last EC. No imagine doing that from my saves
- round one - GLH
-round tow solid foothold on other island
-round three - no more Gilgamesh...
There is of course playstyle question - I am at best if generating early advantgae and using that to get more advantage and... oops, I am over domination limit
Put me in tight space race and i will probably loose horribly, so i need to take of things bit earlier.
I started round while trying out oracle bulb for Currency. Never done that before and had no idea how good it is... [answer is good enough].
Loving your take on the previous cookbook and taking down Gilga. It certainly needed to be done. I do think early wars when you start on a island isolated are hard to do. If you wait for the Ai to have LB/CB and Mace he will be far too developed come castles. Although i had some success with my LB/cat rush on him. It did Kill my economy a bit. That being said the Ai with galleys early on are weak.
How often does the Ai pop up with 10 galleys and escort ships to dump 10 units? 2 galleys and 4 units maybe. By which time the Ai has lost most of the units and is awaiting for the ship to make a round trip back to base. In this time peace is declared.
Come galleons and transports the AI plays this game a lot better. I dont think the Ai is well suit to naval combat on big and small maps.
Leventis
Warlord
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2006
- Messages
- 262
Just quickly before I get to my votes, @Abegweit's summary: Very nice getting all that tabulated but obiously it can't tell the full story. Two critical things I considered that weren't mentioned were 1) who had the copper online and 2) what was the military presence like. On the face of it some games looked quite playable until you open the save and see 2 warriors guarding 3 cities 
. It's important also because in the next round we will look to ReX, and people who have a few axes already will be able to start that very swiftly. Anyway, on to the voting...
Votes:
3. RRRaskolnikov -- For a few reasons: Firstly, I think this save would be a great platform for the next round because it could be played in a lot different ways which would be interesting to explore. I think it's clearly the best game out of those who didn't settle 1E and I'd like to think I'd have played it in a similar manner had I settled in place myself. There is also potential for quick ReX and getting a few axes out to kill some barbs, and economically the position is very strong. 2 goldmines and 3 cottages up already is more than handy. As I said in a previous post, the only issue I have with this save was the choice of Sailing over AH. I understand why he chose it, but I still think AH would have been even better. It's no big deal though, as we can pick up AH next to get cows and pigs up. All in all, I think it's a job well done.
2. Shyuhe -- This save is far from perfect in my eyes, but nothing really damning. I'd definitely change the Damascus build to a monument, and crank out some more axes. Speaking of which, there are 2 axes sitting in pretty passive positions when they could be out fogbusting and getting some XP. Oracle will be done in under 14 turns with some chops, and there are a few options as to what tech to take. I'd probably be moving the capital at some point as well; Mecca is a very nice city but it just doesn't look like a capital to me with all that cottageable land around the place. Again, in a good position to expand in the next round.
1. Abegweit -- I really want to make Medina the capital in this game! Seriously, that city could be a beast by the mid game. I have a few issues with the builds (granaries), and would like to have more units. Hopefully that copper can come online before any barbs start pillaging the lands.
. It's important also because in the next round we will look to ReX, and people who have a few axes already will be able to start that very swiftly. Anyway, on to the voting...Votes:
3. RRRaskolnikov -- For a few reasons: Firstly, I think this save would be a great platform for the next round because it could be played in a lot different ways which would be interesting to explore. I think it's clearly the best game out of those who didn't settle 1E and I'd like to think I'd have played it in a similar manner had I settled in place myself. There is also potential for quick ReX and getting a few axes out to kill some barbs, and economically the position is very strong. 2 goldmines and 3 cottages up already is more than handy. As I said in a previous post, the only issue I have with this save was the choice of Sailing over AH. I understand why he chose it, but I still think AH would have been even better. It's no big deal though, as we can pick up AH next to get cows and pigs up. All in all, I think it's a job well done
.2. Shyuhe -- This save is far from perfect in my eyes, but nothing really damning. I'd definitely change the Damascus build to a monument, and crank out some more axes. Speaking of which, there are 2 axes sitting in pretty passive positions when they could be out fogbusting and getting some XP. Oracle will be done in under 14 turns with some chops, and there are a few options as to what tech to take. I'd probably be moving the capital at some point as well; Mecca is a very nice city but it just doesn't look like a capital to me with all that cottageable land around the place. Again, in a good position to expand in the next round.
1. Abegweit -- I really want to make Medina the capital in this game! Seriously, that city could be a beast by the mid game. I have a few issues with the builds (granaries), and would like to have more units. Hopefully that copper can come online before any barbs start pillaging the lands.
RRRaskolnikov
Goldfish
@Abegweit: I didn't mean I know the # of AIs on the continent (even if I have already read some spoilers after playing ), but just that when you know you are not alone, focus on getting those TRs is a good habit (on my game, I planned to grab that city fast anyway asa I have 4 axes). You are right that perhaps going straight for alpha and trading for sailing could have been another option.
and now I will check thousands of good saves
Cheers
), but just that when you know you are not alone, focus on getting those TRs is a good habit (on my game, I planned to grab that city fast anyway asa I have 4 axes). You are right that perhaps going straight for alpha and trading for sailing could have been another option.and now I will check thousands of good saves
Cheers
Is the fact that I only linked my save and did not properly attach it going to prevent my participation in the series? If so I can try to go fix that just got lazy about it. Would really like feedback on my games as occasionally my games just fall apart and figured this was a good place for that.
Abegweit
Anarchist trader
I missed this. Sorry.
I totally agree this is important but I had thought that Soirana was the only one with expensive techs. Too many saves to go through. Had I realized I might have voted differently but I'm not changing it now. Sorry again.Gumbolt I mean that I linked my save like so-
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attach...1&d=1237499047
but for some reason I could not get the forum to attach it to the post properly. I'm not at home right now to play with it but there is probably just some button I'm missing to get it to work. I got lazy and hoped that the link would suffice.
Edit - okay now trying to click on that link it doesn't work so I can see the issue. Argh
http://forums.civfanatics.com/attach...1&d=1237499047
but for some reason I could not get the forum to attach it to the post properly. I'm not at home right now to play with it but there is probably just some button I'm missing to get it to work. I got lazy and hoped that the link would suffice.
Edit - okay now trying to click on that link it doesn't work so I can see the issue. Argh
carl corey
Deity
How did you upload it? The way to include it in a post is to click on "Go Advanced" (for advanced reply options), look under the posting window and click on "Manage Attachments", then upload the file in the pop-up window.
gspchamp999
Warlord
shyuhe
Deity
@abeg:
Yes my city placement is not very long-term. I'm more used to immortal/deity needing copper in the second city without a border pop. Hence Medina's location. Little did I know that barbs don't bother you before 1500 BC
@soirana:
Yes, I'm not exactly learning emperor. I just wanted to see if I could throw in a save with Hinduism for fun. Saladin can run a very powerful religion economy and I may try to show that in this game. I don't think my save is overpowering by any means so I'm going to leave it in for now.
And now some comments on games (in no particular order):
IPEX: Your expansion is a little slow - I think this is the cost of the early stonehenge. Madrasa + gold is good, but Mecca should 1) have the second corn farmed and 2) get the cows pastured. Not really sure why you farmed the FP first as it's less food than the corn for one coin, and it also takes 1.5 times longer to farm (wasted worker turns). Your lack of a strategic resource and/or archery is a little worrying as well.
Chromium: 3 cities is good, but again there's a lack of strategic resource. But you have archery so it's not that worrisome. I would move the fobgusting warriors on to hills so that you can clear more fog. I like the city locations. The buddhist monastery is a curious build. I'd think a library is better at this point since you're not really going to have time to build missionaries?
Perplexity: Nice aggressive settling taking advantage of stonehenge. I'm not a huge fan of where Baghdad is - I think 1W on the river is stronger as it picks up fresh water. I'm guessing you put it there for the third wine? Also, settling on the hills/plains/wine gives the city center 2/2/2, which isn't bad. You need a lot more workers if you're going to expand this aggressively though. And a strategic resource or archery so that you can protect your cities
Abegweit: That's some crazy scouting! Also, I think Mecca is better 1W as it gets freshwater and remains coastal. Either way, it's probably better to move the capital to Medina for bureaucracy, and workshop over Mecca - it'll make a good grassland production city. And I would actually change techs to monotheism and try to oracle theology. It'd make for an interesting game
Not much to criticize in this game.
Raskolnikov: Your little scouting WB is amusing Not sure if teching fishing was worth it so early, especially since you don't have any cities to grab the fish/clam yet. Mecca is strong, but may run into some hammer issues in the midgame. It'll make a good bureau capital though. And I don't get why people keep on building cities on the marble, unless you're going to build the oracle. It's a great tile to work, and 1SE of its current location picks up grassland cows (making 15 base hammers with the two plains hills, cows, marble, and wheat at size 5).
Dirtryparrot: You need more workers! Mecca should build another worker, not a madrassa. Unpastured pigs is a big nono. Especially since you're pasturing cows first. Plus a second worker will help you chop those forests around Mecca for some good early production. Your fogbusting is good, although archery + copper is a little redundant.
champ82: I think Medina should have been built south for the gold/pigs. The marble is good but you probably didn't need it so early. I'm also not sure why Mecca is working the wine. You can always whip the Oracle to completion so that you get it just as writing is completed. Also, Medina should probably build a settler or worker - not a barracks. You shouldn't need a barracks so early in the game when there's still lots of land to settle.
Gumbolt: I don't like where Mecca is. It blocks off the fish and the clams Although you probably couldn't see it before you settled, settling one off the coast like that seems a bad idea. You also need more workers - I'm not sure why you spent so many worker turns building those roads. You could have built farms etc. Your cities are great for commerce but you're going to have to settle a few production cities soon.
RJM: Damascus should be building a monument before a lighthouse. And I'm not sure why you haven't scouted more (even if your starting warrior was eaten early). You have an axe sitting idle who can go explore east. Also, why are you teching polytheism? It's a little late for a oracle run - are you gearing up for literature already? You also need more workers - 1 isn't going to cut it.
helemaalnicks: Your worker is farming the wrong corn. The irrigated one should get farmed first, even if it means the worker has to travel an extra turn or two. The extra food is crucial. I would also try to fogbust a little more - especially since your Damascus has no garrison. I'm also not sure why you have a barracks in Mecca already. Those hammers would have been better spent on a worker or settler, or a fogbuster.
timmy: You didn't need to road those horses - you have access to them as they're on a river in your culture already. I'd also hop into slavery to whip out a few buildings. You can always switch out after 5 turns if you're worried about slave revolts. I would also move your fogbusters to hills so that they can clear more fog - especially the north.
Phew that's a lot of saves to look at. I won't be voting - I think any of these saves can win this map given the land available.
Yes my city placement is not very long-term. I'm more used to immortal/deity needing copper in the second city without a border pop. Hence Medina's location. Little did I know that barbs don't bother you before 1500 BC
@soirana:
Yes, I'm not exactly learning emperor. I just wanted to see if I could throw in a save with Hinduism for fun. Saladin can run a very powerful religion economy and I may try to show that in this game. I don't think my save is overpowering by any means so I'm going to leave it in for now.
And now some comments on games (in no particular order):
IPEX: Your expansion is a little slow - I think this is the cost of the early stonehenge. Madrasa + gold is good, but Mecca should 1) have the second corn farmed and 2) get the cows pastured. Not really sure why you farmed the FP first as it's less food than the corn for one coin, and it also takes 1.5 times longer to farm (wasted worker turns). Your lack of a strategic resource and/or archery is a little worrying as well.
Chromium: 3 cities is good, but again there's a lack of strategic resource. But you have archery so it's not that worrisome. I would move the fobgusting warriors on to hills so that you can clear more fog. I like the city locations. The buddhist monastery is a curious build. I'd think a library is better at this point since you're not really going to have time to build missionaries?
Perplexity: Nice aggressive settling taking advantage of stonehenge. I'm not a huge fan of where Baghdad is - I think 1W on the river is stronger as it picks up fresh water. I'm guessing you put it there for the third wine? Also, settling on the hills/plains/wine gives the city center 2/2/2, which isn't bad. You need a lot more workers if you're going to expand this aggressively though. And a strategic resource or archery so that you can protect your cities
Abegweit: That's some crazy scouting! Also, I think Mecca is better 1W as it gets freshwater and remains coastal. Either way, it's probably better to move the capital to Medina for bureaucracy, and workshop over Mecca - it'll make a good grassland production city. And I would actually change techs to monotheism and try to oracle theology. It'd make for an interesting game
Not much to criticize in this game.Raskolnikov: Your little scouting WB is amusing
Not sure if teching fishing was worth it so early, especially since you don't have any cities to grab the fish/clam yet. Mecca is strong, but may run into some hammer issues in the midgame. It'll make a good bureau capital though. And I don't get why people keep on building cities on the marble, unless you're going to build the oracle. It's a great tile to work, and 1SE of its current location picks up grassland cows (making 15 base hammers with the two plains hills, cows, marble, and wheat at size 5).Dirtryparrot: You need more workers! Mecca should build another worker, not a madrassa. Unpastured pigs is a big nono. Especially since you're pasturing cows first. Plus a second worker will help you chop those forests around Mecca for some good early production. Your fogbusting is good, although archery + copper is a little redundant.
champ82: I think Medina should have been built south for the gold/pigs. The marble is good but you probably didn't need it so early. I'm also not sure why Mecca is working the wine. You can always whip the Oracle to completion so that you get it just as writing is completed. Also, Medina should probably build a settler or worker - not a barracks. You shouldn't need a barracks so early in the game when there's still lots of land to settle.
Gumbolt: I don't like where Mecca is. It blocks off the fish and the clams
Although you probably couldn't see it before you settled, settling one off the coast like that seems a bad idea. You also need more workers - I'm not sure why you spent so many worker turns building those roads. You could have built farms etc. Your cities are great for commerce but you're going to have to settle a few production cities soon.RJM: Damascus should be building a monument before a lighthouse. And I'm not sure why you haven't scouted more (even if your starting warrior was eaten early). You have an axe sitting idle who can go explore east. Also, why are you teching polytheism? It's a little late for a oracle run - are you gearing up for literature already? You also need more workers - 1 isn't going to cut it.
helemaalnicks: Your worker is farming the wrong corn. The irrigated one should get farmed first, even if it means the worker has to travel an extra turn or two. The extra food is crucial. I would also try to fogbust a little more - especially since your Damascus has no garrison. I'm also not sure why you have a barracks in Mecca already. Those hammers would have been better spent on a worker or settler, or a fogbuster.
timmy: You didn't need to road those horses - you have access to them as they're on a river in your culture already. I'd also hop into slavery to whip out a few buildings. You can always switch out after 5 turns if you're worried about slave revolts. I would also move your fogbusters to hills so that they can clear more fog - especially the north.
Phew that's a lot of saves to look at. I won't be voting - I think any of these saves can win this map given the land available.
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