Emperor Move-Up

[MJ_Halevi]

Hi All,

I decided I'd try to move on up to Emperor.
I've been playing Civ since the original when I was in gradeschool. Now I'm in gradschool and Civ4 is just way more fun than Civ5 (to me at least).

I'm a 'meh' monarch player, generally winning there, but no great shakes.
I tend to crush the game at lower levels.

I figured, WTH, I'd try and move up to Emperor.
Game Settings: Snaky Continent Archipeligo, no vil, no events, epic speed (I like slower speeds)
Playing Wang Kon of the Ottomans.

I'm a meh CE person, but I figured to give it a try (norm I go with Org and Hybrid or SE). I wanted Pro to fend off the rougher AI (expected).

I'd liked the Ottomans in my 1 excursion with them; Hammans are great... and I figured Pro could help those Jannisarries really crush the AI.

Wang of Ottoman seemed like a strong mix.... SO:


Wake up to a map with 3 free food right in the BFC. I sit right down, and am rewarded with a 4th bonus chow. (Map Attached). I should've moved my War first, but after exploring I would've still SIP.

In my past Emp excursions (and sometimes at Mon with the wrong map), Barbs are a problem. Especially given I often play at Marathon.
Given my map and starting techs, I opt for:
Animal Husb-->Fishing-->Hunting-->Arch
-->Mining-->BW

I build:
Worker-->Warrior-->Workboat-->Settler-->Archer-->Archer

I have attached a map after my 2nd city.


Thoughts on things I could've done differently?
--Explored better?
--Build better?
--Tech differently?
--Diff second city?


My plan from here:
--build cities all the way to the east coast on the map (starting with right next to the pig on the water, followed by the gold)
--What placement should I use to pickup the gold?
--research granary and library, and build them in my cities in short order
--Start cottaging around my capital

All critiques welcome

 

[Keilah]

screenshots plz

I can't possibly imagine an archipelago map where TGLH is off the menu, unless you're purposefully playing sub-optimally just for fun.

 

[obsolete]

no barb, epic speed (I like slower speeds)

So what you're saying is, you can't beat the level you were playing at, but am trying to move up anyway?

 

[lymond]

No barbs, yet you tech Archery? I would not tech Archery on Emp even with barbs on.

edit: and what obs said

 

[GenerallyGreat]

Epic/normal difference is wildly overrated but yeah barbs off is cheat mode.

 

[Shirastro]

.... but yeah barbs off is cheat mode.

No not really. They are just a nuisance that can be easily dealt with, if handled properly.

My barbs have been off ever since vanilla, are still off today and will continue to be off for the rest of my Civ 4 life

 

[MJ_Halevi]

So what you're saying is, you can't beat the level you were playing at, but am trying to move up anyway?

Sorry guys; bad post. I fixed it.
I left barbs on, turned events off (see the game).
I agree with OBS that barbs off is basically cheating (no barbs, advanced start, and you can run Monarch over like its chieftain)

I teched archery b/c barbs have crushed me on a number of emp excursions. And archers, esp Pro Archers, are an awesome unit that will be filling my empire for a long time.

Now that is cleared up, I look forward to hearing the responses.

 

[MJ_Halevi]

Also, excuse my technological lameness; but how do I get those nice-looking screenshots?

 

[barbertje]

I can see a barb warrior in the 2225 BC save, so barbs are on. There's a lot of empty terrain to the north, so fogbusting with warriors could be hard.

I wouldn't make so much roads at the start, there's no need to connect health resources yet, and you work an unimproved tile in the capital. Chopping and mining another hill would be better.

 

[GenerallyGreat]

No not really. They are just a nuisance that can be easily dealt with, if handled properly.

My barbs have been off ever since vanilla, are still off today and will continue to be off for the rest of my Civ 4 life

Not sure I'll take that much barb advice from someone that never plays with them on.

 

[vranasm]

if someone really thinks that "barbs are just a nuissance", just go and check my post in the IU 65 Shaka thread how many barbs I had to kill in first 100 turns with selfteched archery.

(I admit that the 2nd attempt with going BW and Impis was better by 1/3 of units though)

 

[mtr12]

Depending on the game, Barbs either totally hamper your expansion (lot of open land), or are ignorable (closely packed civs).

Either way, I would get used to them being on, unless you really hate them.

 

[dimatud]

I can't see the save because I'm not home but to answer specifically your questions with some general tips:

1st point-> I would settle only where I have a food resrouce (exception if I want to grab a strategic resource or block AI)
-> don't over expand if you don't have to(i mean watch your maintanece, it changes with dif. level), usually you can tech your way out with 6 or even less cities. You can just take over the land from the AIs after when your economy will be better
-> cottage your capital but don't forget to work the cottages as they need to grow fast for a quick return
-> build granaries in all your cities but check where you actually need a library as some of them might not be worth to build (8 base commerce for example would return 2 beakers for 90 hammers)

in the long term:
-> Go for monopoly techs and try to get a militaristic tech advantadge over your next target
-> forget about jannisarries, by that time you'll have trebs and any melee unit will do if you're planning medieval war
-> watch for diplo, make yourself some trading partners otherwise the Ais will just trade between them and then it's just a pain to try and get a tech advantage by yourself

These should be enough for emperor i think but in addition, try to specilize your cities and micro your workers/tiles/whipping etc...

 

[Shirastro]

Not sure I'll take that much barb advice from someone that never plays with them on.

Well actually i can give you the best advice possible on how to deal with them.......turn them off

 

[Unconventional]

Hi All,




My plan from here:
--build cities all the way to the east coast on the map (starting with right next to the pig on the water, followed by the gold)

I am also in the process of moving from Monarch to Emperor, and one advice I can give you is this: It has more maintenance cost than monarch so over expansion early is not the best idea I think. Of course I didn't see how much land you have in the east coast but just bear in mind that expansion far away from your capital-until you have access to courthouses- cripples your economy badly on emperor.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

if someone really thinks that "barbs are just a nuissance", just go and check my post in the IU 65 Shaka thread how many barbs I had to kill in first 100 turns with selfteched archery.

(I admit that the 2nd attempt with going BW and Impis was better by 1/3 of units though)

That had roughly deity timings though (I don't recall killing anywhere near those #'s either). On archipelago with spawn bust rule abuse they really are more nuisance than true threat.

I personally think barbs are a bad mechanic though I often still use them. The reason they are crappy is that they are the ONE time where bad RNG outcomes at long odds can completely screw you even if you plan for more than reasonable risk assessment in terms of outcome. Twice this year I've lose a city to barbs on-video, and in each case it was some crap like 2 archers beating 2 archers in a city. Ludicrous, but completely crippling when it happens too.

Anyway, it's a slightly easier game to play with those settings, but who cares? No serious MP game uses barbs or tech trades, and yet standard settings allow both.

 

[obsolete]

No not really. They are just a nuisance that can be easily dealt with, if handled properly.

My barbs have been off ever since vanilla, are still off today and will continue to be off for the rest of my Civ 4 life

I am soooooooooooo confused.

In your first line you claim how easy it is for you to deal with barbs...

Then you pull a 180 on us and tell us you can't deal with barbs, and will never ever risk turning them on again for the rest of your life. At least, that's how me and I'm certain many others interpret that.

 

[MarigoldRan]

The Hunting -> Archery tech was odd. I'm ok with archery now, but normally it's not something I'd get UNLESS I started with Hunting.

For about the same amount of time, you can go Mining-> BW. You're bound to find some strategic resource near your capital. If you didn't find horse, it's probably copper.

And I'd stick to Mehmed of the Ottomans. Org + Exp is REALLY strong. Fast granaries, workers, and courthouses- three things you'll build pretty extensively in your empire.

 

[MJ_Halevi]

[[Picture Note: I have a pretty screenshot, but it tells me I need a URL when I try to paste/upload it? How do I turn a pic into a URL?]]

Anyways, I had a chance to play a couple more rounds, and here I am. I've hit that part of the early game before happiness techs/resources come online, and no religion to speak of. So I have some tech choices to remedy this: Mathematics/Masonry... for the lovely Hammans (yay Ottoman).
Or Beeline to Monarchy for the delicious hereditary. Or both (Hamman, then Monarchy?) Thoughts/suggestions?

My scouting attempts have been patently crappy, having had my warrior keel over deads very quickly when trying to see what was SW of me. Other than that, kindof going to plan.

I'm purposely starving Edirne; as the only dude who will die is the rioting one (if this causes a happiness problem for many turns, someone please tell me).

My diagnosis:
I need some happiness, and I need some culture.

My considered solution:
Beat some people into building libraries, then fill them with scientists until I have Hamman online, or maybe both Monarchy and Hamman.

What do y'all think is the path from here?

 

[Seraiel]

Ok, here are some thoughts I had when seeing your save. Never work unimproved tiles, if you have excellent tiles like food + mined hills available, and run in Slavery. You can just grow more into unhappiness and then do some big time whips like whipping libraries, more Workers or dual Axeman.

Next problem of yours is, that you research to much, and your city placement needs more work. You could have skipped pottery imho, as you get formidable commerce on the financial cost and have so much food, you don't need early granaries, you could have skipped Hunting + Archery completely if you placed the City directly next to the Horses at the coast, if you want to capture a strategic ressource, you normally don't want to have to wait for border popup if you don't have SH and are non creative. Getting Sailing would have been better instead, as you could have gone GLH (3 of 4 Cities would have been coastal then) and would have had instant TR's available. Also the western City should have been 1 NE imho, as you could have worked more hills than, and you don't get the bananas or even don't need them, the city with the elephants will though. Don't worry about the overlap with the capital. Same thing for the City not getting the copper, this one could have been more in the south to capture the corn + the copper, you would not have gotten the gold then, but again, you could have settled another city for the gold, you want that strategic ressource early as you could have skipped Hunting + Archery.

Anyway, that's some pretty ed up start, not conscidering what you did, in the north you have desert, in the south jungle, make sure to block the AI in the west at the chokepoint between the seas and expand to the East and South. Make your Capital or the western City GP Farm, though western city morely is an awesome city for Slavery production now. Go for Archers now, as southeastern citiy doesn't even get the horses after borderpop and northeaster city is to small to get a fast library for the copper, and build some more units, you are paying 0 on upkeep, don't forget a workboat to explore the coast and hope GLH gets built soon so you can get Sailing by techtrade, make big time whips like sacrificing 2-4 pop with every whip, as you got tons of food and even granaries now.