Encampments over Industrial Zone?

[Electryx]

As Industrial Zone generally gives:
Average (+3 production from adjacency + 2 from workshop +3 Factory +4 Powerplant= ) 12 production
Citizen Yield =3(*2Production)= 6Production
Total: 18 Production +3 Great Engineer point per turn; 4 Gold

If one is having his cities within a 6 tile range of Industrial Zone, is it efficient to make Encampments in other cities over Industrial Zone?

As Industrial Zone generally gives:
Average (+3 production from adjacency + 2 from workshop=) 5 production
Citizen Yield (without factory; Powerplant)=1(*2Production)= 2Production
Total: 7 Production +1 Great Engineer point per turn

As Encampment generally gives:
(+0 production from adjacency + 1 from Barrack; +2 Armory; +3 Military Academy=) 6 production
Citizen Yield =3(*1Production)= 3Production
Total: 9 Production; 9 Culture; 2 Housing; 1 Science; 4 Gold; +3 Great general point per turn; +75% Combat Exp Land Units; ZoC+ City Defense


What is the priority of the district?
CommerceHub\Harbour > Campus > IndustrialZone > TheaterSquare/Encampment/HolySite


I am new and learning, your playstyle method and suggestion will help me understand this game better )

 

[Leyrann]

I would say that it is not worth it. First of all, your comparision is not straight, as you did not calculate in the production cost for the Armory and Military Academy. On top of that, while an Encampent does beat an additional Industrial Zone if both are fully built, the question is wheter it beats a Campus or Theater Square (assuming you already have a Commercial Hub of course), and I would argue that the answer to that is no. It does cost you a bit of production, but in return you get quite a bit of science or culture. Lastly, it may not be fair to calculate in specialists, as you will typically not have a lot of them, both because cities tend to not get as big as in IV or V (at least, in my experience) and because specialists aren't really as good, and you'll probably get more worth out of a citizen that just works a tile as long as you got tiles available.

Of course, if you're planning on any late wars (or simply preparing for them), it is good to have at least one or two Encampments with a Military Academy to crank out those fast Armies.

 

[EpicWestern]

Depends on a lot on what victory type you're going for.

Here's generally what it is for me:

religious: neither in any city
cultural: generally neither, sometimes may build 1 IZ in capital
domination: almost certainly will have 2-3 encampments, very rarely will build an IZ at all
science: IZ mandatory for capital, will almost always have an encampment or harbor as well

Note that my non-domination games are generally peaceful. Non-domination victories via domination should also involve at least one encampment.

 

[Leyrann]

Depends on a lot on what victory type you're going for.

Here's generally what it is for me:

religious: neither in any city
cultural: generally neither, sometimes may build 1 IZ in capital
domination: almost certainly will have 2-3 encampments, very rarely will build an IZ at all
science: IZ mandatory for capital, will almost always have an encampment or harbor as well

Note that my non-domination games are generally peaceful. Non-domination victories via domination should also involve at least one encampment.

What is your thought process behind not building IZ for a domination victory, considering most people consider IZ to be the second best district (after CH), and considering you will have to build units for your wars?

 

[Electryx]

Thank you EpicWestern for districts needed in victory conditions tips
and Laeyrann for pointing out citizens working on tiles is better than specialists....

 

[rschissler]

I usually play domination. For me, commercial hub or harbor in every city first, then IZ in every city. Then, pick and choose the others. Even though I'm going domination, I'll only build 2-3 encampments total, because the AI always builds encampments--too many I think. I like to go Theocracy and buy units with faith, so don't need many encampments.

 

[Victoria]

suggestion will help me understand this game better

1 encampment early for 2 early civic eurekas and 2 midgame tech eurekas... or is it 3?

Factories.... good for 1 eureka

The early great general is incredibly powerful, you just cannot compare to engineers really.

Industrial zone is useful in a space bound city but only if you can get back the cogs it took to build it. You are forgetting that it takes cogs to make cogs and the later you make one, the less value it will be.

Comparing it to a campus is quite hard... it may be on par with a theatre but not a campus in my opinion.

The better SP players in GOTM will go encampment 3 commercial, then campus everywhere and only after campus more commercial.

 

[Archon_Wing]

It depends on how much you value the -1 resource requiirement and the extra defense. Personally I think there are many reasons to build a encampent over an industrial zone, but that has more to do if the place has a lack of good adjacency bonuses because I have found sinking lots of productions just to get production bad hasn't been too good. For example, sometimes I think of building a wonder or a power plant. But if I can build the wonder in 20 turns, and the power plant in 10 it makes little sense.

The most important district is always going to be science. So I try to make sure to have most cities build a campus. You always need science regardless and because there is no % and only flat values for the most part, the more the better. You need science for all victories besides religion, and even in cases of religious victory, you need to be able to defend yourself and science helps you by getting more advanced. And you can run projects when not doing anything else.

Industrial Districts are good when you have the adjacency bonuses. Building them in city that can't build them in the first place quickly would be quite counterintuitive. So maybe that city should just run campus projects perpetually.

Commercial Districts are good for gold, obviously, and trade routes. Often times my cities that have nothing better to do build them. I care more for the great merchants.

Harbors are built in coastal cities where I need boats. If it's a landlocked city and I really need boats, I will build a harbor over a commercial zone. The reduced resource requirements are good.

Encampments are great for any city that will see combat, duh! If it looks like I won't have resources, one will definitely get build. It is with a strange bit of irony that peaceful players get more mileage out of an encampment due to the boost in defense as well as their empires more likely to have strategic resource issues as they haven't covered as much land through conquest.

Holy Sites I rarely build unless I am going for a religous victory. It does have some utility if you need to counter someone else's rebellious spread and thus you wish to create a buffer. Plus you might want something to do with your faith.

Theater Squares I never build unless I am going for a culture victory. The adjacency bonuses are horrific and tourism only does anything with culture victory. You're paying an awful lot of hammers and maintenance just to generate some culture. And even when I do, they still are secondary before campuses. Yes, i think science > culture in a culture victory. Why? Because you still need military either to defend yourself or take out rivals and being ahead in culture doesn't mean you'lll have the pointiest stick. Also, the real killing blow is computers and seaside resorts (with radio), which means a lot more than a few extra works. So what if someone has more tourism than you? You just take their cities and now their tourism is yours!

There's also the option of simply not building them at all. Remember most districts and buildings cost maintenance and if they're not doing anything useful with it, you're just wasting both production and hammers. So besides science and maybe commercial (since that doesn't cost you money), you really should consider if building a district is worth it. In these cases you just wonder if you're just better off building another settler, builder, or military unit. Or project. Especially true later in the game where the increased district costs means they probably won't get anything online soon enough for it to help.

 

[Electryx]

@rschissler

So in domination victory gameplay, how many holy sites do you make after getting CommerceHub, IZ and 2-3 Encampments?
Do you make IZ in every city or choose to make encampments if the cities are within 6 tiles of capital?

thanks Victoria for insight
and Archon_Wing for detailed info, it really helped

 

[rschissler]

@rschissler

So in domination victory gameplay, how many holy sites do you make after getting CommerceHub, IZ and 2-3 Encampments?
Do you make IZ in every city or choose to make encampments if the cities are within 6 tiles of capital?

I make an IZ in every city and try to have them in the 6 tile range, but it's not a requirement. Some people forget that factories, etc., have their own production boost that doesn't get put into the adjacency bonus.

I can't really say how many holy sites I make. I don't care about a religion victory, but the faith is good to buy units when I get to Theocracy.

 

[Victoria]

One thing on theaters. Most districts give +2/+3/+4 for buildings within while a theater is a bit different.

No adjacency but you may get some City State (CS) benefit... its what happens with buildings that make it "different"

Amphitheater - +2 culture but when it has 2 writings and printing is discovered it is +10 culture
Museum - +2 culture but when it has artifacts or works it is +8 culture

you do not need many theaters to make a difference. Their value is in having one or two if not going culturally. Why?... well for a start you would want them in a large city where you want to grow the borders without spending a few thousand gold. The culture boost is good for getting those civics earlier, its not just about tourism.

 

[Archon_Wing]

That does sound interesting, though I would argue its dependency on other districts or a city state makes it incredibly situational (even more so than Holy Site and Encampment which can have immediately tangible benefits). A lot of cities tend to not be able to build that many districts since housing is hard to come by early on and also it costs amenities to grow so big, and for all this when +20'ish culture can make a big difference. Though it probably does not help my biggest city tries to build the collosseum meaning after that and campus/industrial/commercial, meaning I don't get the choice until pop 13 of which I'd still considering putting an encampment and worried about things like aerodome and possibly spaceport.

It would definitely be a big boost though. But I would find it very hard to fit it in there with all the other stuff that needs to be built, plus wouldn't it be difficult to compete for great writers with only a couple of theater districts?

Maybe if I could grow really big as Kongo.

 

[Victoria]

plus wouldn't it be difficult to compete for great writers with only a couple of theater districts?

War/trade are easy options. I'll be honest... it's like going to the gymn, you know it's good for you but you do not always go.

 

[Archon_Wing]

War/trade are easy options. I'll be honest... it's like going to the gymn, you know it's good for you but you do not always go.

Oh, I somehow forget you can trade for works despite the AI hassling me for it constantly; have not traded any due to the recent exploits involving the matter.

As for war, well that's actually my preferred way of getting holy sites and theater districts! But I dislike bringing that up, because I know people find it boring.

It is a good idea to invade culture heavy AIs it would seem. They generally aren't as advanced and capturing enough of their stuff often allows for a backdoor culture victory as a result (as you increase your own tourism and decrease their culture) Though it can also backfire if they were serving as a counterweight to another culture fiend.

 

[Victoria]

Culture is your best defence against another cultural victory, they have 6 great works, take 4 and sell 2 on.

 

[Leyrann]

I make an IZ in every city and try to have them in the 6 tile range, but it's not a requirement. Some people forget that factories, etc., have their own production boost that doesn't get put into the adjacency bonus.

I can't really say how many holy sites I make. I don't care about a religion victory, but the faith is good to buy units when I get to Theocracy.

Factories actually do not have their own production boost; all production they give (at least in an unmodded game) is regional.

 

[rschissler]

Factories actually do not have their own production boost; all production they give (at least in an unmodded game) is regional.

The production they give is only to the city it is built in, and doesn't add to the adjacency bonus.

 

[iammaxhailme]

I find holy sites to be quite useful for every victory except scientific.
For Cultural, national parks are extremely powerful, and if you get the relic tourism belief, that is a surprisingly large help.
For Domination, units are really cheap once you get Theocracy.
For Religion it's obvious.

Science doesn't have much use except for Arabia, as purchasing great people with faith is too expensive to happen much. There are some small boosts you can get like +2 science from one of the religious buildings, getting more population through some beliefs, but they don't seem large enough to make me prioritize holy sites over other districts.

 

[kaspergm]

I make an IZ in every city and try to have them in the 6 tile range, but it's not a requirement. Some people forget that factories, etc., have their own production boost that doesn't get put into the adjacency bonus.

The production they give is only to the city it is built in, and doesn't add to the adjacency bonus.

Either your wording here is bad, or you've misunderstood something. The adjacency bonus and the regional bonus are two different things. The adjacency bonus is the local bonus that the city that has the district gains based on improvements next to the district. For instance IZ gains +1 production for every adjacent mine and quarry.

The regional bonus comes from buildings and applies to all cities within 6 hexes of the district. The factory provides a regional bonus which can only be applied once. The factory has no additional local bonus, nor does it have any adjacency bonus, as that applies to the district itself. As such, building a factory in a city that's already within 6 hexes of a factory will not get you any additional production (in that city). It will, however, give you specialist slots (pretty worthless), great person points (valuable), potentially extent the range of your factory coverage and leave you less vulnerably to sabotage from spies.

 

[Phoenix1595]

In defense of encampments, there is also the fact that their buildings provide housing-- an important consideration to make when one needs production and tall cities. Also, for cultural players, the IZ's appeal decrease isn't something to sneeze at.

I don't argue that IZ's production bonuses are greater, but sometimes other demands warrant different strategies.