pre-release info New Civ Game Guide: Prussia

[Boris Gudenuf]

I actually was for this for getting representation for related civs in VI, so doing now would probably be okay.

Like Smash Bros "echo fighters."

Although as a personal preference, I don't need Germany in the game. I am happy with us ending somewhere around 1900 for several reasons, the most recent being no desire to dredge up existential dread over current politics.

Germany/Prussia was just announced, so it is fresh in everybody's (well, in My) mind. Antiquity and Exploration Age Civs could easily get the same treatment.

In fact, the 'de-centralized' pre-nation-state Civs might be even more flavorful:

Antiquity Greece divided into Civs representing a Spartan led, an Athens led, a Corinth (Economic) led Greece, each with different Abilities, Attributes and Uniques.

Exploration Age Normans matched with Valois France and Anglo-Saxon England in the same way.

Same Age, Tang and Song-inspired Chinese Dynastic Civs.

Antiquity Rome as either Republican or Imperial versions.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Germany/Prussia was just announced, so it is fresh in everybody's (well, in My) mind. Antiquity and Exploration Age Civs could easily get the same treatment.

In fact, the 'de-centralized' pre-nation-state Civs might be even more flavorful:

Antiquity Greece divided into Civs representing a Spartan led, an Athens led, a Corinth (Economic) led Greece, each with different Abilities, Attributes and Uniques.

Exploration Age Normans matched with Valois France and Anglo-Saxon England in the same way.

Same Age, Tang and Song-inspired Chinese Dynastic Civs.

Antiquity Rome as either Republican or Imperial versions.

Yeah that's all very doable. Although I would advocate even further stretching, like sharing of common units or buildings between civs that aren't variations on the same civs.

Like, say, Mali being a hybridization of Songhai and Garamantes uniques. Or Timurids being a mix of Abbasids and Mongolia. Just a way of getting certain "less distinct" civs into the game somehow in an interesting way that encourages connections.

 

[ThERat]

As a southern German I have to laugh about this design of 'Prussia'. It's as if someone from the outside had copy pasted the warmonger Huns into the game. Stereotypes much.

Also, why is the Ruhr part of Prussia? Cities like Munich and Stuttgart? Try telling a person from Munich that they are Prussians, the reply will be full of four letter words.

I now wonder how accurate other Nations or Leaders are, those that I have hardly ever heard of.

 

[Baudshaw]

I wonder if they wanted to call it Germany, but couldn’t because:

a. They’re planning an exploration age Germany

b. They didn’t want associations with more modern German states

 

[Siptah]

As a southern German I have to laugh about this design of 'Prussia'. It's as if someone from the outside had copy pasted the warmonger Huns into the game. Stereotypes much.

Also, why is the Ruhr part of Prussia? Cities like Munich and Stuttgart? Try telling a person from Munich that they are Prussians, the reply will be full of four letter words.

I now wonder how accurate other Nations or Leaders are, those that I have hardly ever heard of.

The Ruhr was part of Prussia during the time of the industrialization. As was most of the Rhineland. Prussia wasn‘t just modern Brandenburg, Berlin, and eastwards. They controlled a significant part of the northern half of modern Germany, including cities like Cologne. Never Hamburg, Stuttgart or Munich though. That‘s just super lazy on FXSs part who seemed to have copied a German city list of an earlier title.

Stereotypes: most civs are. In 7 and earlier as well. A civilization/culture isn‘t well described with a bunch of uniques, especially in a game that avoids cultural history almost completely.

 

[Lord Lakely]

The Ruhr was part of Prussia during the time of the industrialization. As was most of the Rhineland. Prussia wasn‘t just modern Brandenburg, Berlin, and eastwards. They controlled a significant part of the northern half of modern Germany, including cities like Cologne. Never Hamburg, Stuttgart or Munich though. That‘s just super lazy on FXSs part who seemed to have copied a German city list of an earlier title.

Stereotypes: most civs are. In 7 and earlier as well. A civilization/culture isn‘t well described with a bunch of uniques, especially in a game that avoids cultural history almost completely.

Prussia inherited the areas around NRW a bit later in its history, so it's a weird name for the first Civic in their tree. And it's not like Prussia has good alternative names for Civics and Traditions. Prussia's heartlands around the Elbe and Oder rivers can easily take on similar roles as the Ruhr valley did.

The devs were going for a design of Prussia that can *also* be Germany, and I think that is where they erred. It comes across too much like "Prussia right before they became Germany" and less like "Prussia on their way to become Germany". It's almost as if 17th Century Prussia doesn't exist. The only way this could have been more on the nose is if Bismarck had been the token German leader over Fritz.

The more correct design would have involved a design centered around military diplomacy, like a reduction in the Influence cost to increase War Support, scaling with every specialist in the capital. That I think that nails the Prussian idea more - a quality army backed by the military theorists in Friedrich's court. Also gives some really good synergy with several of the leaders in the game (Kong, Tubman, Emperor Napoleon) that aren't just outright warmongers.

The Blood and Iron ability should be a tradition, unlocked somewhere at the back of their Civic tree.

I will also say that this design, alongside Meiji and Russia, makes me with all Modern Civs just had three unique Units instead of two. A Civilian unit on Russia/Meiji and a third military unit for Prussia would have been cool flavour options for those Civs.

 

[P_S_]

Ultra happy to actually see Prussia as a Civ!

...yet...

I gotta say, this civ certainly screams "this should have been called Germany"

...rings true to me as well. City names, from what I've seen, are just the 'generic' German city names (Dresden, in Saxony, Hamburg, an independent city state, Stuttgart, in Baden-Württemberg.) Where's actually Prussian cities like Königsberg, Breslau, Danzig, Kolberg, Posen etc. etc.? I know many of them would 'conflict' with the inevitable later Polish Civ release, but that never stopped the Devs from giving Byzantium and the Ottomans both Constantinopel/Istanbul as their capital, so that's not really an issue.

I'm stoked to see Friedrich/Frederick return after 20 years of absence, and I like that they gave him two personas to represent his different interests and projects. But since leaders and Civs are almost completely decoupeled in VII, it's kinda sad to see that Germany is still the 'militaristic' Civ that it is in multiple games. Many others already stated this point, but I wanted to reiterate it. Also, according to the logic of 'well they were quite militaristic in real history', most modern/industrial era european Civs should be depicted in the game as such since they scrambled to subjugate like three quarters of the world.

All in all, I am still positive and rather pleased.

 

[local_hero]

Tbh I think Germany in civ6 was first and foremost industrious and could translate that into nearly everything. And civ 5 Germany eventually was a production civ too (though the militaristic impression was still there with Barbarossa/uboat and Bismarck/panzer respectively, but all civs had a UU).

For Prussia, I think the production adjacency for all buildings next to navigable rivers will be impactful.

Though I can see why people would like to see a bigger nod to scientific and cultural achievements more explicitly in the civ designs. But I think it's unlikely to change, just as France will continue to be cultural and militaristic.

 

[untitledjuan]

As a southern German I have to laugh about this design of 'Prussia'. It's as if someone from the outside had copy pasted the warmonger Huns into the game. Stereotypes much.

Also, why is the Ruhr part of Prussia? Cities like Munich and Stuttgart? Try telling a person from Munich that they are Prussians, the reply will be full of four letter words.

I now wonder how accurate other Nations or Leaders are, those that I have hardly ever heard of.

I think that the civ was originally meant to be Germany and, for some reason, they changed its name to Prussia at the last minute. Also, their in-game symbol looks more like the Reichsadler (specifically the one of the German Empire and the Weimer Republic) than the Prussian eagle of the Prussian coat of arms.

 

[untitledjuan]

The devs were going for a design of Prussia that can *also* be Germany, and I think that is where they erred. It comes across too much like "Prussia right before they became Germany" and less like "Prussia on their way to become Germany". It's almost as if 17th Century Prussia doesn't exist.

They did the same error with the Normans, trying to pass them as England, with more references to England than to the actual Normans. It would have been better to have had England and Germany, instead of a Normandy that pretends to be England but ends up being neither of them, or a Prussia that pretends to be Germany and fails in the same way.

 

[Siptah]

They did the same error with the Normans, trying to pass them as England, with more references to England than to the actual Normans. It would have been better to have had England and Germany, instead of a Normandy that pretends to be England but ends up being neither of them, or a Prussia that pretends to be Germany and fails in the same way.

The two are clearly stand-ins instead of living up to their name. It‘s different with Qing/China, however, which gives me hope that the Mughals will be more properly modeled after the actual Mughals instead of India.

 

[Lord Lakely]

They did the same error with the Normans, trying to pass them as England, with more references to England than to the actual Normans. It would have been better to have had England and Germany, instead of a Normandy that pretends to be England but ends up being neither of them, or a Prussia that pretends to be Germany and fails in the same way.

Yeah, the irony of "Normandy is better English representation if they had made them LESS English" isn't lost to me either. But at least they have an appropriate city list that sells the illusion of English/French duality.

I'm just going to tag dr Johnson & Sarah here so the devs know about this minor quibble: @FXS_Sar @Andrew Johnson [FXS]: it's not the highest priority, but we would appreciate it if the Prussian list of foundable Cities was made more Prussian, and less German in one of the future patches. Kind regards, my OCD.

 

[RedCourtJester]

Prussia inherited the areas around NRW a bit later in its history, so it's a weird name for the first Civic in their tree. And it's not like Prussia has good alternative names for Civics and Traditions. Prussia's heartlands around the Elbe and Oder rivers can easily take on similar roles as the Ruhr valley did.

The devs were going for a design of Prussia that can *also* be Germany, and I think that is where they erred. It comes across too much like "Prussia right before they became Germany" and less like "Prussia on their way to become Germany". It's almost as if 17th Century Prussia doesn't exist. The only way this could have been more on the nose is if Bismarck had been the token German leader over Fritz.

The more correct design would have involved a design centered around military diplomacy, like a reduction in the Influence cost to increase War Support, scaling with every specialist in the capital. That I think that nails the Prussian idea more - a quality army backed by the military theorists in Friedrich's court. Also gives some really good synergy with several of the leaders in the game (Kong, Tubman, Emperor Napoleon) that aren't just outright warmongers.

The Blood and Iron ability should be a tradition, unlocked somewhere at the back of their Civic tree.

I will also say that this design, alongside Meiji and Russia, makes me with all Modern Civs just had three unique Units instead of two. A Civilian unit on Russia/Meiji and a third military unit for Prussia would have been cool flavour options for those Civs.

I agree with all of this. But especially the civilian units. A good bit of civ flavor and era dimensionality is lost when half the civs don't have civilian units. Especially when we know all three could have easily gotten great civilian units: offhandedly I feet cheated that "Prussia/Germany" doesn't have great philosophers, and Russia doesn't have great writers.

I think that is something they should fix post-launch. If they really want it to be more war-focused, at least give every modern civ three unique units: two military and one civilian.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

I agree with all of this. But especially the civilian units. A good bit of civ flavor and era dimensionality is lost when half the civs don't have civilian units. Especially when we know all three could have easily gotten great civilian units: offhandedly I feet cheated that "Prussia/Germany" doesn't have great philosophers, and Russia doesn't have great writers.

I think that is something they should fix post-launch. If they really want it to be more war-focused, at least give every modern civ three unique units: two military and one civilian.

I partially agree. I would have felt more cheated if you could get works of writing, art, and music in general in the Modern Period, but since not I don't really have a better alternative. I would of rather France have Philosophes though, than the Jacobins.

As for Prussia, I liked the Junker idea where some of them could have become commanders and gave militaristic bonuses, while others could have contributed to science and culture.

 

[RedCourtJester]

I partially agree. I would have felt more cheated if you could get works of writing, art, and music in general in the Modern Period, but since not I don't really have a better alternative. I would of rather France have Philosophes though, than the Jacobins.

If I had to give (non-Greek) philosopher to any civ, it would be the Germans, though the French come at a very close second. As it stands, neither "Prussia" nor "Imperial France" are very good recipients of the honor.

 

[Lord Lakely]

I would of rather France have Philosophes though, than the Jacobins.
.

Yes, but it did lead to this funny interaction:

CFC: *enjoying the French design*
Boris Gudenuf: JACOBINS ARE TERRORISTS.
CFC: >:-/

 

[RedCourtJester]

Yes, but it did lead to this funny interaction:

CFC: *enjoying the French design*
Boris Gudenuf: JACOBINS ARE TERRORISTS.
CFC: >:-/

A man is a traitor ... or liberator.
A rich man is a thief ... or philanthropist.
Is one a crusader? Or ruthless invader?
What matters is which label is able to persist.

 

[Boris Gudenuf]

A man is a traitor ... or liberator.
A rich man is a thief ... or philanthropist.
Is one a crusader? Or ruthless invader?
What matters is which label is able to persist.

Or which label you apply to yourselves.
To quote a member of the government of the First French Republic, Bertrand Barere, on 5 September 1793:
"Let us make Terror the order of the day."

Robespierre opposed the idea that terror should be the order of the day, rather that 'justice' should prevail, but his definition of justice was the definition of the terrorist:

"Terror is nothing more than speedy, severe and inflexible justice . . ."

To the tune of 16,594 official executions in less than a year, plus another 10-12,000 executed without trial and yet another 10,000 who simply 'died in prison'

Apply what label you like, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .

 

[RedCourtJester]

Or which label you apply to yourselves.
To quote a member of the government of the First French Republic, Bertrand Barere, on 5 September 1793:
"Let us make Terror the order of the day."

Robespierre opposed the idea that terror should be the order of the day, rather that 'justice' should prevail, but his definition of justice was the definition of the terrorist:

"Terror is nothing more than speedy, severe and inflexible justice . . ."

To the tune of 16,594 official executions in less than a year, plus another 10-12,000 executed without trial and yet another 10,000 who simply 'died in prison'

Apply what label you like, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck . . .

Vive la France.

 

[Daigotsu Max]

Does anyone know what's the unlock condition of Prussia?