[BNW] Enjoyable Deity Games

[Nizef]

#128 Egypt - T219 CV

Spoiler :

That was a strange game that took longer than it should have. I had all the ingredients for victory before turn 200, but World Congress had been founded really early, so I only managed to propose International Games on the third session.

Egypt has a great Temple UB, so I wanted to do a Piety game. The initial plan was to go wide with Collective Rule into Reformation and see where that leads me. I opened with Scout x2 - Monument - Shrine - Granary - Archers - Settlers. Ruins and CSs gave me enough gold to buy a worker on turn 20 to improve all that Salt. I also left two ruins for turn 20 and got the first pantheon (Earth Mother) from one of them.

Early aggression:
Valletta - stole two workers then made peace
Netherlands - stole a settler and a worker, Salt <> 218g peace
Portugal - 100g trade route pillage, Salt and embassy <> 275g peace

This gives me enough gold to buy a settler, which should help compensate for a somewhat slow start with no culture ruins.

Spoiler T50 :

View attachment 583220

Pretty standard stuff so far, but then I notice that it's turn 50 and I'm still the only one with a pantheon! Not sure why the AIs all ignored religion for so long in this game. Check this out:

View attachment 583222

I meet La Venta on turn 78, and the leader of their faith quest has made a whopping 4 faith in 30 turns. What is this nonsense? I don't win this quest though. I suppose the CS's turn 78 is processed and the quest ends before my +22 fpt from turn 78 is added.

Anyway, I research Construction and get ready to attack the Netherlands. My military advisor tells me Gustavus has a pretty strong army ("his army can wipe me off the planet" Sweden vs "about the same strength" Netherlands), so I bribe him to attack William a few turns before I join the fight myself. I was planning to take the capital, but then this happens:

View attachment 583231

I'll take that. I can't hold the city for long against Dutch units, so I make peace with the intention to take Amsterdam 10 turns later. Now Gustavus doesn't like that I'm "building new cities too aggressively," but fortunately taking the city also gives me a bright green "fought against a common foe" buff.

I move some of my units over to Rotterdam, build a couple of extra War Chariots and declare war on the Netherlands for the third time in this game. After I take Amsterdam, William is left with just one city, so naturally I bribe Monty to eliminate him. The world needs someone to hate, and it better not be me.

Meanwhile I build the Pyramids, Mausoleum, Oracle and Great Mosque. I get Pagodas and Mosques completely uncontested, so I decide to go for Sacred Sites here. I reach Education and Reformation both on turn 111.

Spoiler :

View attachment 583240

World Congress is founded on turn 117 by Rome. Augustus engineers LToP and 6-turns Globe Theatre. No chance to get those wonders and no chance to reach Radio in time for the second Congress session either. Augustus and Gajah are both doing really well, I have top crop yield but otherwise they're leading all the demos.

Since I know there's no point in researching Printing Press, I go for Acoustics and Architecture instead. I do get Sistine, Taj Mahal and Uffizi, although I have to delay Secularism to open Aesthetics. In hindsight, I didn't really need to take the 20% discount policy in Piety so early - that should've been Aesthetics opener instead.

Spoiler T150 :

View attachment 583241

Architecture -> Sci Theory -> Electricity (GS bulb) -> Radio (Oxford) for a turn 163 ideology. I pick Order because I'm not planning to invest much culture into ideology and instead focus on finishing Aesthetics, Liberty and Piety. I use the Liberty finisher GE for Broadway while hard-building Eiffel Tower. By T200 I also have all my museums filled and I've got 5000 faith stored for GMus, but the third congress vote is still 6 turns away.

This is garbage time, I'm building labs and teching towards Radar, but none of this really matters. In reality I'm just waiting for International Games. Eventually the project does get passed, and it gets built remarkably quickly.

View attachment 583244

I bet Augustus really wanted that.

Anyway, IG is completed on turn 214 and the game is over 5 turns later. I even have one spare GMu in the end.

Spoiler T219 :

View attachment 583245

Nice write up and interesting reading. How much science are you generating around t160 (I saw that you had 355 on t150)?

Very odd that the AIs didn´t take any interest in faith and religion. Both Gajah and William tend to love a good religion and sometimes even Monty goes for it. Augustus is the only one that seems to be indifferent to spiritual affairs.

 

[Tiberiu]

Guys, please help me out with something. Instead of creating a separate thread I wanted to ask you a question about a start. @vadalaz @Nizef @Shark Diver @TMNTurtle. Please put spoiler tag for your answers. Thank you in advance.

Spoiler :

please comment your thoughts about this start, somebody found lake victoria with morocco in desert, before settling his capital. how would you evaluate this start? this screenshot is turn 2

 

[Nizef]

Guys, please help me out with something. Instead of creating a separate thread I wanted to ask you a question about a start. @vadalaz @Nizef @Shark Diver @TMNTurtle. Please put spoiler tag for your answers. Thank you in advance.

Spoiler :

please comment your thoughts about this start, somebody found lake victoria with morocco in desert, before settling his capital. how would you evaluate this start? this screenshot is turn 2

View attachment 583258

Spoiler :

Growth = reasonable
Production = somewhere between utter garbage and a nightmare
Religion = easy pick
Military and Defense = dangerzone

When I get a start like this it is an easy decision to reroll. I value production very (too?) much.

 

[Shark Diver]

#128 Egypt - T219 CV

Spoiler :

That was a strange game that took longer than it should have. I had all the ingredients for victory before turn 200, but World Congress had been founded really early, so I only managed to propose International Games on the third session.

Egypt has a great Temple UB, so I wanted to do a Piety game. The initial plan was to go wide with Collective Rule into Reformation and see where that leads me. I opened with Scout x2 - Monument - Shrine - Granary - Archers - Settlers. Ruins and CSs gave me enough gold to buy a worker on turn 20 to improve all that Salt. I also left two ruins for turn 20 and got the first pantheon (Earth Mother) from one of them.

Early aggression:
Valletta - stole two workers then made peace
Netherlands - stole a settler and a worker, Salt <> 218g peace
Portugal - 100g trade route pillage, Salt and embassy <> 275g peace

This gives me enough gold to buy a settler, which should help compensate for a somewhat slow start with no culture ruins.

Spoiler T50 :

View attachment 583220

Pretty standard stuff so far, but then I notice that it's turn 50 and I'm still the only one with a pantheon! Not sure why the AIs all ignored religion for so long in this game. Check this out:

View attachment 583222

I meet La Venta on turn 78, and the leader of their faith quest has made a whopping 4 faith in 30 turns. What is this nonsense? I don't win this quest though. I suppose the CS's turn 78 is processed and the quest ends before my +22 fpt from turn 78 is added.

Anyway, I research Construction and get ready to attack the Netherlands. My military advisor tells me Gustavus has a pretty strong army ("his army can wipe me off the planet" Sweden vs "about the same strength" Netherlands), so I bribe him to attack William a few turns before I join the fight myself. I was planning to take the capital, but then this happens:

View attachment 583231

I'll take that. I can't hold the city for long against Dutch units, so I make peace with the intention to take Amsterdam 10 turns later. Now Gustavus doesn't like that I'm "building new cities too aggressively," but fortunately taking the city also gives me a bright green "fought against a common foe" buff.

I move some of my units over to Rotterdam, build a couple of extra War Chariots and declare war on the Netherlands for the third time in this game. After I take Amsterdam, William is left with just one city, so naturally I bribe Monty to eliminate him. The world needs someone to hate, and it better not be me.

Meanwhile I build the Pyramids, Mausoleum, Oracle and Great Mosque. I get Pagodas and Mosques completely uncontested, so I decide to go for Sacred Sites here. I reach Education and Reformation both on turn 111.

Spoiler :

View attachment 583240

World Congress is founded on turn 117 by Rome. Augustus engineers LToP and 6-turns Globe Theatre. No chance to get those wonders and no chance to reach Radio in time for the second Congress session either. Augustus and Gajah are both doing really well, I have top crop yield but otherwise they're leading all the demos.

Since I know there's no point in researching Printing Press, I go for Acoustics and Architecture instead. I do get Sistine, Taj Mahal and Uffizi, although I have to delay Secularism to open Aesthetics. In hindsight, I didn't really need to take the 20% discount policy in Piety so early - that should've been Aesthetics opener instead.

Spoiler T150 :

View attachment 583241

Architecture -> Sci Theory -> Electricity (GS bulb) -> Radio (Oxford) for a turn 163 ideology. I pick Order because I'm not planning to invest much culture into ideology and instead focus on finishing Aesthetics, Liberty and Piety. I use the Liberty finisher GE for Broadway while hard-building Eiffel Tower. By T200 I also have all my museums filled and I've got 5000 faith stored for GMus, but the third congress vote is still 6 turns away.

This is garbage time, I'm building labs and teching towards Radar, but none of this really matters. In reality I'm just waiting for International Games. Eventually the project does get passed, and it gets built remarkably quickly.

View attachment 583244

I bet Augustus really wanted that.

Anyway, IG is completed on turn 214 and the game is over 5 turns later. I even have one spare GMu in the end.

Spoiler T219 :

View attachment 583245

Spoiler Great write-up and very good game. :

Our games were pretty similar in some ways and completely opposite in others.

Your AI behavior was beyond bizarre and very different than my game. Indonesia was a Faith beast and I didn't win my first Faith quest until I was over 100 FPT. I'll be finishing up my game this evening and have a decent chance to beat your finishing time, mostly because I did get IG on the 2nd go-round. However, I'm facing a strong Culture AI and don't have direct access for GMU's. We shall see.

Netherlands - stole a settler and a worker, Salt <> 218g peace
Portugal - 100g trade route pillage, Salt and embassy <> 275g peace

I need to start doing more of this.

I'm still the only one with a pantheon! Not sure why the AIs all ignored religion for so long in this game. Check this out:

Bizarre and something I've never seen before.

I meet La Venta on turn 78, and the leader of their faith quest has made a whopping 4 faith in 30 turns. What is this nonsense?

I've never seen this either.

I was planning to take the capital, but then this happens:

This is freakin hilarious. Any thoughts of selling the city?

After I take Amsterdam, William is left with just one city, so naturally I bribe Monty to eliminate him. The world needs someone to hate, and it better not be me.

I didn't have this luxury and paid the Diplo price. Thankfully I had the same "fighting common enemy" thing with my 2 neighbors.

In hindsight, I didn't really need to take the 20% discount policy in Piety so early - that should've been Aesthetics opener instead.

I absolutely needed this as I had a ton of buildings to buy and 110 Faith Missionaries and Inquisitors just prior to Renaissance allowed me to convert all of my cities back and forth. It was my first Policy in Piety after finishing Tradition. I also didn't get Uffizi as it went pretty early.

Eventually the project does get passed, and it gets built remarkably quickly.

That's one of the more competitive IG's I've ever seen. I might have lost this one as I tend to stop working it once I get past 2200 Hammers. That would have been disastrous and might even justify a reload.

Very well done.

 

[Shark Diver]

Guys, please help me out with something. Instead of creating a separate thread I wanted to ask you a question about a start. @vadalaz @Nizef @Shark Diver @TMNTurtle. Please put spoiler tag for your answers. Thank you in advance.

Spoiler :

please comment your thoughts about this start, somebody found lake victoria with morocco in desert, before settling his capital. how would you evaluate this start? this screenshot is turn 2

View attachment 583258

Spoiler :

My initial thoughts are that I'd take the Settler South and go for a Petra Cap (2 tiles SW of the Marble looks good).

Put your first Expo north of Lake Victoria where there's hopefully better production tiles. If there is, you'll have the equivalent of 2 Caps.

I wouldn't mind playing this game if you have the t0 save.

 

[Nizef]

Here is a recap of all games in the Enjoyable Deity Games Experience (EDGE) series so far:

1. Korea (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 1
2. the Shoshone (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Really Advanced Setup (RAS)), Page 1
3. America (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
4. Denmark (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
5. Byzantium (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS). Page 3
6. Germany (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
7. Polynesia (Small Continents Plus, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 4
8. Brazil (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS), Page 4
9. Mongolia (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 4
10. Spain (Terra, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS), Page 5
11. Carthage (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 5
12. the Aztecs (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 5
13. England (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
14. Korea 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
15. Venice (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
16. Egypt (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
17. the Huns (Oval, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
18. Japan (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 6
19. China (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
20. Babylon (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
21. Polynesia 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
22. Korea 3 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
23. Russia (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
24. Portugal (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
25. France (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
26. Germany 2 (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
27. England 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
28. Sweden (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
29. Arabia (Sandstorm, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
30. the Mayans (Tectonics map, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with both RAS and the Tectonics map template), Page 8
31. Ethiopia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
32. Assyria (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
33. Poland (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 8
34. India (Pangaea, Standard speed, Small size, Modded with RAS), Page 8
35. the Aztecs 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazers map script), Page 8
36. Morocco (Sandstorm, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
37. Babylon 2 (Large Islands, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
38. Spain 2 (Inland Sea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
39. Greece (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
40. Carthage 2 (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
41. Indonesia (Archipelago, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
42. the Mayans 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety challenge, Page 9
43. Siam (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Patronage partial challenge, Page 9
44. the Shoshone 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 9
45. Poland 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Honor challenge, Page 9
46. the Netherlands (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Liberty challenge, Page 10
47. the Aztecs 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 10
48. the Celts (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 10
49. the Zulus (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge, Page 11
50. Austria (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
51. Persia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
52. the Ottomans (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 11
53. Rome (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
54. Songhai (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
55. the Incas (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
56. Russia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
57. India 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 11
58. Germany 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
59. Byzantium 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 11
60. the Iroquois (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge, Page 12
61. America 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 12
62. Sweden 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Petra challenge, Page 12
63. Morocco 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial Commerce challenge, Page 12
64. England 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial UN challenge, Page 12
65. Portugal 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial elimination challenge, Page 12
66. Egypt 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 12
67. Polynesia 3 (Archipelago, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 13
68. Sweden 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 13
69. Germany 4 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), War academy, part 1, DomV challenge, Page 13
70. the Huns 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 2, Page 13
71. Spain 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Page 13
72. Denmark 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 13
73. Venice 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DipV challenge, Page 13
74. Carthage 3 (Hellblazer´s Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazer´s map script), CV challenge, Page 13
75. China 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 3, DomV challenge, Page 14
76. Mongolia 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 4, Page 14
77. Brazil 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 15
78. the Shoshone 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 15
79. Assyria 2 (Terra Incognita, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 15
80. Indonesia 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Liberty challenge, Page 16
81. Portugal 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 16
82. Japan 2 (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Order challenge, Page 16
83. Persia 2 (Random map, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 16
84. the Netherlands 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 17
85. Denmark 3 (Tiny Islands, Standard speed, Large size, Raging Barbarians, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 17
86. America 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), No Tradition challenge, Page 18
87. the Incas 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 18
88. Korea 4 (Pangaea, Quick speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 19
89. the Ottomans 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 20
90. Arabia 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 20
91. Ethiopia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Pantheon challenge, Page 21
92. Greece 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 21
93. France 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 21
94. Siam 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded),Incense challenge, Page 22
95. Byzantium 3 (Continents, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 22
96. England 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 23
97. Sweden 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 24
98. Babylon 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 24
99. the Zulus 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 24
100. Germany 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 25
101. Brazil 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 25
102. Austria 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 26
103. England 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, modded with RAS and Acken´s balance mod), Page 27
104. the Celts 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 27
105. Rome 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 28
106. Songhai 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 28
107. Poland 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 29
108. Russia 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 29
109. China 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 30
110. the Aztecs 4 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 30
111. the Shoshone 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
112. Korea 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
113. the Mayans 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
114. Assyria 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Partial domination challenge, Page 33
115. Japan 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 33
116. Egypt 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 33
117. India 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 33
118. Germany 6 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 34
119. the Zulus 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 34
120. Carthage 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 34
121. Ethiopia 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety and CV challenge, Page 34
122. the Mayans 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 35
123. the Ottomans 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 37
124. the Aztecs 5 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 38
125. Mongolia 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 39
126. Spain 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 40
127. America 4 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), SV challenge, Page 40
128. Egypt 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 40
129. Morocco 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 40
130. the Huns 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 42

The subseries MIDGE consists of:
1. Finland (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Finland), Page 26
2. The Papal States (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is The Papal States. You also need Austria-Hungary.), Page 27
3. Phoenisia (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is the Phoenician civilization.), Page 27
4. Norway (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Norway. You also need the modded civs Finland, Iceland and Scotland.), Page 29
5. Belgium (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Belgium), Page 30

 

[Shark Diver]

Nizef, what do you think about putting together a spreadsheet with finishing times for each of these games?

Someone did something like this for the old Deity Challenge Series, and it was fun comparing in one place. It's also fun to watch as player's finishing times keep improving.

"That which is measured grows"

 

[Nizef]

Nizef, what do you think about putting together a spreadsheet with finishing times for each of these games?

Someone did something like this for the old Deity Challenge Series, and it was fun comparing in one place. It's also fun to watch as player's finishing times keep improving.

"That which is measured grows"

I am all for it, but I would rather not take the lead on it myself. But I am definitely ready to help out.

 

[vadalaz]

Guys, please help me out with something. Instead of creating a separate thread I wanted to ask you a question about a start. @vadalaz @Nizef @Shark Diver @TMNTurtle. Please put spoiler tag for your answers. Thank you in advance.

Spoiler :

Looks like coast to the north, so there's likely nothing good next to Lake Vic. The double river system in the south looks great though with tons of growth potential. There are some hills for production there as well, although you'd have to buy most of them, because borders never grow to desert hills for whatever reason. I'd probably settle one of the riverside desert hills, depending on what's hidden in the fog of war.

How much science are you generating around t160 (I saw that you had 355 on t150)?

I was building the World's Fair from turn 150 to 160, so my science stayed pretty much the same. I got a boost after I finished schools around turn 170, this pushed my beakers to ~600 per turn.

This is freakin hilarious. Any thoughts of selling the city?

Yeah, I did consider selling it, but Gustavus didn't really have the gold to make a good enough offer, and noone else would want it. It's a pretty good city anyway, the main concerns were happiness and Sweden getting annoyed by my reckless expansion. Luckily Egypt has tons of free happiness, and I immediately gifted Gustavus an excess lux to please him. Sent him a trade route a bit later as well, and eventually got a DoF.

 

[Shark Diver]

I was building the World's Fair from turn 150 to 160, so my science stayed pretty much the same. I got a boost after I finished schools around turn 170, this pushed my beakers to ~600 per turn.

You've shared a couple of screenshots where all of your cities are working Science instead of building stuff and things. Is that something you do just late game or do you mix it in and ignore non-essential buildings?

I've often admitted that I don't play 100% "optimal" Civ 5, as I like to have a bit of fun and experiment. It seems to me that an "optimal" game in the pure sense of the word would ignore all "non-essential" buildings and/or units. Is that really the key to the best finishing times? And is the sacrifice worth it? Is the likelihood of winning vs the efficiency of win time balancing act affected by working just science? I haven't tried this, so I'm wondering how much you've explored these mechanics?

I hope I properly explained those questions. Tonight is Martini Night.

Yeah, I did consider selling it, but Gustavus didn't really have the gold to make a good enough offer, and noone else would want it.

I was asking because in a non-DomV game, I usually don't keep expos as they rarely keep up and the added costs is an issue.

OK, you just inspired an interesting game concept question. In my game, Monte had taken out the 1 Pop city a few turns before I took the Cap, so I got all of the Warmonger penalties (which I dealt with, but they still sucked).

What if I had jumped into the war earlier and taken that city instead of letting Monte do so? Is there a mechanic where I could have sold that city or resurrected the woeful Dutch to offset those Warmongering Penalties?

I'm thinking I give the City back to the Dutch the exact moment I'm going to take their capital, that Monte or the Swedes will then kill him off the next turn or two? Is this possible?

I just turned a really good game into a kinda good game because of the Diplo hits of this situation.

 

[vadalaz]

You've shared a couple of screenshots where all of your cities are working Science instead of building stuff and things. Is that something you do just late game or do you mix it in and ignore non-essential buildings?

I've often admitted that I don't play 100% "optimal" Civ 5, as I like to have a bit of fun and experiment. It seems to me that an "optimal" game in the pure sense of the word would ignore all "non-essential" buildings and/or units. Is that really the key to the best finishing times? And is the sacrifice worth it? Is the likelihood of winning vs the efficiency of win time balancing act affected by working just science? I haven't tried this, so I'm wondering how much you've explored these mechanics?

Building science raises your GS bulb value, so if you know you're going to be bulbing in ~8 turns and there's nothing essential to build, it can be a good idea to have your cities work Research. This is mostly relevant for the very late game, e.g. at the end of a typical Freedom science game I usually have one city building Hubble, another one building Apollo and the rest working Research. Sometimes I try to raise the value of my mid-game bulbs as well, but that usually just means working some extra specialist slots.

And yes, going for a fast finish forces you to ignore some buildings. A bit of an extreme example, but in the Fastest Science Victory thread, there was a discussion about optimizing science victories on Settler difficulty under very specific settings. If I remember correctly, a conclusion was made for such games that Workshops, normally a staple building, should be treated like Factories in "normal" games - sort of a luxury building that not every city can afford to build. The game is won before the building has the time to pay for itself.

What if I had jumped into the war earlier and taken that city instead of letting Monte do so? Is there a mechanic where I could have sold that city or resurrected the woeful Dutch to offset those Warmongering Penalties?

I can't really think of a good solution here. Peace has to last 10 turns, so taking Utrecht, selling it back to the Dutch and then taking Amsterdam would slow things down considerably, plus you're getting a diplo hit for taking the city as well as an almost guaranteed denounce from William. There might've been the option to bribe Monte to make peace with William, so that Utrecht would stay alive a bit longer. Or perhaps you could settle some awful snow city and gift that to William before taking Amsterdam, then get Sweden to go after that snow city and eliminate the Dutch.

 

[Shark Diver]

Or perhaps you could settle some awful snow city and gift that to William before taking Amsterdam, then get Sweden to go after that snow city and eliminate the Dutch.

This would have worked. I went back and tested it. Live and learn.

 

[raider980]

Edge 127 America T332 SV

This is my fourth (or fifth) deity win! Strangely all my Deity wins have been with Korea or America (two wins each plus one more I think, that I can’t remember who it was with). Korea makes sense since they are one of the best science Civs in the game. But America is just mediocre and don’t really have anything for science, except tile buying early does help. In my victories, the reason I was able to win, I think, was great starting location. In addition to good starting land, I was semi-isolated in each game. I was either on the edge or in a corner but with plenty of room for expos. This allowed me to get started without worrying about being attacked from multiple directions.

Spoiler :

In this game, I did get attacked twice, but due to the land and location (and help from Napoleon) I was able to defend.

To start, my settler moved to the gems to the SE of the starting location and founded my capital there. In fact, all three of my cities were settled on gems.

• T40 NY up north to get Kilimanjaro. I was trying to settle next to the mountains but 3 Polynesian Maori warriors were blocking me.
• T57 Boston on the gems on the SW coast.

It was smooth sailing until Pachacuti attacked out of nowhere on T110. I was expecting an attack from Napoleon but not Pachacuti, so at least I was prepared with defense. I was holding my own but was not able to counterattack until Napoleon joined the war against the Inca. I took the city closest to me and then headed for the coastal city where I had intended to build my own city anyway. As I was attacking that city, Napoleon was attacking the capital, Cusco. And he was doing too well; before I realized it, he had gotten it way down into the red. Luckily I had units in range and just before he captured it I was able to snipe it from him. I was then able to take coastal the city. Whew, this was a long war, but the Inca were now crippled and I had two more good cities (I burned down the first city because it was no good).

Spoiler Map T123, the early part of the war with the Inca :

After that war it was smooth sailing again – until Harold attacked me at Cusco around T215. I was in trouble because he attacked with many Norwegian ski inventory and I only had Pikemen and Musketmen. Luckily, no one liked Harold because of his previous warmongering – he had taken out the Inca a few turns earlier. So I was able to bribe Napoleon to go to war on my side and he took out half of the Danish army. Strangely, Napoleon and I were best buddies the entire game. He’s usually a punk but in this game he was friendly even after we took different ideologies.

A few turns later every civ in the game had joined in on the war against Denmark. He had taken out a couple of CS as well as the Inca so everyone hated Harold. I ended up liberating one CS and bringing the Inca back to life. After that Harold was no longer a threat and was basically out of the game. One funny thing did happen in this war. Never seen this before but when I liberated the CS, my ship got thrown into the nearest city - but it was a Polynesian city, not mine.

Spoiler Thanks for the repairs :

The rest of the game was peaceful for me – other wars raged throughout the world but I stayed out of them. For my religion I had desert folklore, tithe and Pagodas which was awesome. I was able to finish Rationalism and get to the 3rd level tenet of Freedom which doesn’t happen all the time for me.

I’ve been trying to use some of the wisdom from this thread to improve my game and with some success. I started running food trade routes and that did help my game. But I still fail to pay enough attention to micromanagement; I’ll look at a city and the governor will be working an engineer slot and have three unassigned workers. I don’t think I will ever get good at this part of the game since I don’t really enjoy micromanagement. I did play the end game better this time though, I concentrated on science and the run to the finish. . Often, I’m left with extra scientists because I missed timing my bulbing. But this time I bulbed them early enough and also started building spaceship parts, not waiting for Freedom’s tenet where you can buy them. I did end up buying the last three parts and launched. It wasn’t really that close even though Polynesia, France, and the Aztecs had built about three parts each.

Spoiler Launch! :

It is nice when everything comes together and I’m able to pull out a win and that’s what happened this game. A good mixture of city building and battles. A fun game!

P.S. One thing I'm always amazed at is the military strength - and how much I lag behind. I thought I had a lot of units, then this pops up...

Spoiler Military strength :

 

[Shark Diver]

Congrats on your win.

A couple comments on your statistics: your GPT and SPT are both solid. Your culture is lacking. In a game that lasts this long you should have no problem completing 4 Policy Trees. Maybe focus more on Culture in your upcoming games and see if it helps.

One funny thing did happen in this war. Never seen this before but when I liberated the CS, my ship got thrown into the nearest city - but it was a Polynesian city, not mine.

Long ago, I had a ship teleported to an inland city, but I think the game has fixed that flaw. I've never seen your scenario. Did you keep control of the ship?

But I still fail to pay enough attention to micromanagement; I’ll look at a city and the governor will be working an engineer slot and have three unassigned workers.

I never use the governor. You will always make better decisions than the game. Try to enjoy the micromanagement and you'll reap the rewards of snowballing.

Glad to see another Diety level player contributing on here.

 

[raider980]

Congrats on your win. A couple comments on your statistics: your GPT and SPT are both solid. Your culture is lacking. In a game that lasts this long you should have no problem completing 4 Policy Trees. Maybe focus more on Culture in your upcoming games and see if it helps.

Thanks. Yes, my culture is always low. There seems to be not as many ways to get culture has other things. The only ways I can see are those buildings, which it seems like there's always something else that needs to be built instead, plus they take a lot of hammers. And cultural city states, which because I'm always low on happiness I go for the mercantile city states. (I hate the happiness mechanic in Civ 5. It so crippling so I feel like I have to deal with it right away so culture gets pushed down the list of needs.) . As for the cultural wonders, I can never get those.

Long ago, I had a ship teleported to an inland city, but I think the game has fixed that flaw. I've never seen your scenario. Did you keep control of the ship?

Yep, I kept control and was able to just sail it out of the city as if nothing had happened.

I never use the governor. You will always make better decisions than the game. Try to enjoy the micromanagement and you'll reap the rewards of snowballing.

Yea, I don't intentionally use the governor. I start out and set my city to production and then lock the tiles I want, prioritizing food usually. I can keep up when the city is small but then as the city grows I forget to look at it for a while and so the governor does some wacky things.

 

[Shark Diver]

There seems to be not as many ways to get culture has other things. The only ways I can see are those buildings, which it seems like there's always something else that needs to be built instead, plus they take a lot of hammers. And cultural city states, which because I'm always low on happiness I go for the mercantile city states. (I hate the happiness mechanic in Civ 5. It so crippling so I feel like I have to deal with it right away so culture gets pushed down the list of needs.) . As for the cultural wonders, I can never get those.

Like other things in this game, Culture snowballs. I'm suggesting you prioritize it over what you are currently prioritizing. Example: I sometimes don't get to markets until very late in the game in some expos, but I always get my Hermitage up very quickly and that pays huge dividends for getting through Ideology.

Also, I prioritize Cultural CS over just about everything else. I almost never worker steal from them, and they almost always get my first spy. You'll get better at managing your happiness over time. It just takes practice.

Getting the midgame Cultural Wonders is more a function of good early science and a bit of AI luck. If your National College is up before t100, you should have a chance at Sistine, at the very least. If you get it up earlier, you can make a run at the Printing Press Wonders. NC is one of the most important buildings in the game and needs to be your main focus when getting your expos out.

I start out and set my city to production and then lock the tiles I want, prioritizing food usually.

This is the right way to go. Food is a huge priority, but always have the city set for Production for the spillover. One of the easier ways to manage this is to do a quick check for which cities are about to grow prior to hitting Next Turn. I literally put a reminder sticky note next to my laptop so I don't forget to check which tiles I'm working.

 

[raider980]

Like other things in this game, Culture snowballs. I'm suggesting you prioritize it over what you are currently prioritizing. Example: I sometimes don't get to markets until very late in the game in some expos, but I always get my Hermitage up very quickly and that pays huge dividends for getting through Ideology.

Also, I prioritize Cultural CS over just about everything else. I almost never worker steal from them, and they almost always get my first spy. You'll get better at managing your happiness over time. It just takes practice.

Getting the midgame Cultural Wonders is more a function of good early science and a bit of AI luck. If your National College is up before t100, you should have a chance at Sistine, at the very least. If you get it up earlier, you can make a run at the Printing Press Wonders. NC is one of the most important buildings in the game and needs to be your main focus when getting your expos out.

I'll try prioritizing culture over gold in the next game. I do usually always build markets pretty much as soon as their available, so I'll try not doing that next time. And I'll set getting at least one cultural wonder as a goal.

As for National College, I do try to get it up as soon as possible, but often (most of the time) it is not before turn 100. I always get distracted, for example, in the current Game of the Month, there was so much land that I just had to build six cities before National College. And I had to block the neighboring AI settler that thousands of years to do it. Then when I did the NC, I built it in the wrong city! I built it in an expo (and not even the best expo) and not my capital by mistake, my excuse is both cities start with letter S, hahaha.

I've attempted many of these Edge games but abandon them at some point. Since someone mentioned its still valuable to post games that are abandoned, I'll do that with a few I tried recently.

I know I'll never be a great Deity player; mostly due to the fact that you need to pay a lot of attention and do specific things at specific times on Deity. But I do appreciate the knowledge, tips and tricks from this site and watching some lets plays. I wouldn't have even been able to attempt Deity without them. And I'm always learning new things so that keeps it fun.

 

[Shark Diver]

I know I'll never be a great Deity player; mostly due to the fact that you need to pay a lot of attention and do specific things at specific times on Deity. But I do appreciate the knowledge, tips and tricks from this site and watching some lets plays. I wouldn't have even been able to attempt Deity without them. And I'm always learning new things so that keeps it fun.

Don't sell yourself short. Even the very best Civ 5 players were once at the point where you are now: good enough to win on Diety some of the time, but still more concerned with whether you'll win than how quickly you can win. That will evolve.

You can go through my post history from the old Deity Challenge Series and see that I was right where you are now, and I was posting and learning from more experienced players. I'm still learning new things and strategies today. And this is a great community, as everyone is happy to share their acquired wisdom.

I'm willing to bet that you'll be posting t270 victories in the not too distant future. You've got this game mostly figured out and now just need to start questioning your normal decision making. Challenge yourself.

I'll go track down the link if you'd like, but I did a number of writeups on the DCS Rome game where I played it twice, and lost both times by 1 turn (around t300). That was the game that taught me a bunch of the lessons I needed to move to the next level of game play.

As for the National College, I think getting up as early as possible is likely the most important thing you can do to assure being competitive. Not getting killed is maybe more important, but I'd rather be stuck on 3 cities and having good early tech than getting every city spot you want. If the AI steals your intended land, just take the damn city later. Of course, all of this is moot when you're dealing with a strong war AI like a neighboring Shaka, but you still need the tech to get advanced units. When I get NC up before t80, I know it's going to be a very strong game. t100 used to be my target, but it's been awhile since I was that late.

 

[Tiberiu]

Congratulations to Raider for his victory. From your report you just have to practice the early game to become even more consistent. i.e handle early attacks better so that you don't prefer isolation.

And I'm always learning new things so that keeps it fun.

I think most of us are and indeed it's fun. Today I learned that I can enhance my religion with a stolen prophet. It sounds pretty basic but I just assumed that it is a "heretic" prophet and I can't use it for my "true" religion. So I never tried to steal one to enhance. Now that I know I will always try to be on the lookout for prophets.
Last days I discovered a few bugs including one very important during combat - ZOC is cancelled when capturing a civilian unit. This applies to barbs too. And I already started to use this in war when I get the chance.
I also learned that Barbs who visit Mt. Kilimanjaro have the promotion - I lost my settler to a barb dispite checking my movement (i don't escort settlers) so I checked his promotions and he had it.

 

[Shark Diver]

Today I learned that I can enhance my religion with a stolen prophet.

Imagine this; you can found a religion without ever building a Shrine or even having a Pantheon. Yes, there are other ways of doing this like Natural Wonders, but most of them come with an opportunity cost.

Just build a couple of horses and lurk near a strong religious Civ.