[BNW] Enjoyable Deity Games

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#127 - T153 Update

Spoiler Smooth Sailing so far. :

I got to Education on t107 and all 4 cities got their Unis up quickly (3 before Workshops). Right as I was hitting Workshops, Pedro gets Printing Press and quickly builds Globe and Pisa. This simply won't do, so I paid him to war Monte, and hopefully slow both of them. I beelined for Acoustics and hard built Sistine.

From there, I'm just beelining to Radio. I had enough production that I detoured to build Angkor Wat and Great Mosque. I'm currently building Porcelain Tower and might use a GE on Taj Majal after I hit my natural GA. That'll give me 20 turns of GA for WF, but it'll expire shortly after, so I'm really pumping out happiness buildings and Merc CS so I can get back into GA for the rest of the game.

I got Guilds up quickly, and have finally been able to work all Scientist and Guild slots. I'm running 5 internal Trade Routes and that will go to 6 shortly.

Pedro has a decent Tourism start, but I'll be taking Sacred Sites next and will be theming soon so I'm not too worried about future ideological pressure. I did get Cathedrals and Religious Texts, and all 4 other Religions have already reformed and none took SS, so I'm golden there and could get into Rationalism quickly.


The world is a bit feisty, but everyone seems to like me. I've got DoF with Kammy, Monte, and Napolian. RA's are in place with 2, but Monte is broke. Kammy had a very odd game. He looks good in Demos, but that's mostly because he built weak Wonders and spread his silly Faith to France. I got my Grand Temple up early and converted a few nearby CS, so his religion isn't a risk to my cities and I'm enjoying his Plantation Culture. The Incas are still a bit antagonistic, only giving me 6 GPT in lux trades, but they haven't attacked even though they have top army. Here you can see my picket line of gifted Horse units. I've got plenty of Gold to upgrade if needed.


Demos are pretty tight, but I actually can take the hammer lead anytime I like. WF should be a breeze. The first Congress took about 20 turns after Pedro's early Printing Press due to him not exploring, and I was worried about not being able to propose WF, but I lucked out. I've already got 6 CS allies, so I should control the Congress from here on out.


The Cap built both Artist and Writer's Guilds, so growth is slowing for now, which is a shame because I've got a ton of good tiles to work. It'll be getting a 3rf Food trade routs soon and I'll be able to start working more 4-Food tiles shortly.


The expos are all big enough to work Science slots early and all have produced all of the necessary buildings, and even a couple of extra buildings.


At this point, I'm not sure which will be faster; CV or SV. Because this game was intended to be SV, I'll focus on that and save my Scientists as much as possible, but the CV might just hit by accident earlier.

Spoiler Edit to add: :

I decided to hold off on teching for Minutemen. I can always grab it it 2-3 turns by burning a Scientist if I'm threatened.

 

[Nizef]

Here is a recap of all games in the Enjoyable Deity Games Experience (EDGE) series so far:

1. Korea (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 1
2. the Shoshone (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Really Advanced Setup (RAS)), Page 1
3. America (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
4. Denmark (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
5. Byzantium (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS). Page 3
6. Germany (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 3
7. Polynesia (Small Continents Plus, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 4
8. Brazil (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS), Page 4
9. Mongolia (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 4
10. Spain (Terra, Standard speed, Large size, Modded with RAS), Page 5
11. Carthage (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 5
12. the Aztecs (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 5
13. England (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
14. Korea 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
15. Venice (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
16. Egypt (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
17. the Huns (Oval, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 6
18. Japan (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 6
19. China (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
20. Babylon (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
21. Polynesia 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
22. Korea 3 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
23. Russia (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded both with RAS and Hellblazers map script), Page 7
24. Portugal (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
25. France (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
26. Germany 2 (Lakes, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
27. England 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 7
28. Sweden (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 7
29. Arabia (Sandstorm, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
30. the Mayans (Tectonics map, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with both RAS and the Tectonics map template), Page 8
31. Ethiopia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
32. Assyria (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
33. Poland (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with RAS), Page 8
34. India (Pangaea, Standard speed, Small size, Modded with RAS), Page 8
35. the Aztecs 2 (Hellblazers Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazers map script), Page 8
36. Morocco (Sandstorm, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
37. Babylon 2 (Large Islands, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
38. Spain 2 (Inland Sea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
39. Greece (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
40. Carthage 2 (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
41. Indonesia (Archipelago, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 8
42. the Mayans 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety challenge, Page 9
43. Siam (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Patronage partial challenge, Page 9
44. the Shoshone 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 9
45. Poland 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Honor challenge, Page 9
46. the Netherlands (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Liberty challenge, Page 10
47. the Aztecs 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 10
48. the Celts (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 10
49. the Zulus (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge, Page 11
50. Austria (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
51. Persia (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
52. the Ottomans (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 11
53. Rome (Fractal, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
54. Songhai (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
55. the Incas (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
56. Russia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
57. India 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 11
58. Germany 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 11
59. Byzantium 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 11
60. the Iroquois (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Aesthetics challenge, Page 12
61. America 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 12
62. Sweden 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Petra challenge, Page 12
63. Morocco 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial Commerce challenge, Page 12
64. England 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial UN challenge, Page 12
65. Portugal 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), partial elimination challenge, Page 12
66. Egypt 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 12
67. Polynesia 3 (Archipelago, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 13
68. Sweden 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 13
69. Germany 4 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), War academy, part 1, DomV challenge, Page 13
70. the Huns 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 2, Page 13
71. Spain 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Page 13
72. Denmark 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 13
73. Venice 2 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DipV challenge, Page 13
74. Carthage 3 (Hellblazer´s Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Modded with Hellblazer´s map script), CV challenge, Page 13
75. China 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 3, DomV challenge, Page 14
76. Mongolia 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), War academy, part 4, Page 14
77. Brazil 2 (Pangaea, Epic speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 15
78. the Shoshone 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 15
79. Assyria 2 (Terra Incognita, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 15
80. Indonesia 2 (Small Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Liberty challenge, Page 16
81. Portugal 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 16
82. Japan 2 (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), No Order challenge, Page 16
83. Persia 2 (Random map, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 16
84. the Netherlands 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 17
85. Denmark 3 (Tiny Islands, Standard speed, Large size, Raging Barbarians, Otherwise unmodded but Rotate Starting Position was used), Page 17
86. America 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), No Tradition challenge, Page 18
87. the Incas 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 18
88. Korea 4 (Pangaea, Quick speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 19
89. the Ottomans 2 (Continents, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 20
90. Arabia 2 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 20
91. Ethiopia 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Pantheon challenge, Page 21
92. Greece 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 21
93. France 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 21
94. Siam 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded),Incense challenge, Page 22
95. Byzantium 3 (Continents, Epic speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 22
96. England 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 23
97. Sweden 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 24
98. Babylon 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 24
99. the Zulus 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 24
100. Germany 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 25
101. Brazil 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 25
102. Austria 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 26
103. England 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, modded with RAS and Acken´s balance mod), Page 27
104. the Celts 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 27
105. Rome 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Large size, Unmodded), Page 28
106. Songhai 2 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 28
107. Poland 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 29
108. Russia 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 29
109. China 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 30
110. the Aztecs 4 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 30
111. the Shoshone 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
112. Korea 5 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
113. the Mayans 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 32
114. Assyria 3 (Continents, Standard speed, Huge size, Unmodded), Partial domination challenge, Page 33
115. Japan 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 33
116. Egypt 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 33
117. India 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Religion challenge, Page 33
118. Germany 6 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 34
119. the Zulus 3 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), DomV challenge, Page 34
120. Carthage 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 34
121. Ethiopia 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Piety and CV challenge, Page 34
122. the Mayans 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 35
123. the Ottomans 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 37
124. the Aztecs 5 (Lakes, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), CV challenge, Page 38
125. Mongolia 3 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 39
126. Spain 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 40
127. America 4 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), SV challenge, Page 40
128. Egypt 4 (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 40
129. Morocco 3 (Fractal, Standard speed, Standard size, Unmodded), Page 40

The subseries MIDGE consists of:
1. Finland (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Finland), Page 26
2. The Papal States (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is The Papal States. You also need Austria-Hungary.), Page 27
3. Phoenisia (Continents, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is the Phoenician civilization.), Page 27
4. Norway (Ice Age, Standard speed, Standard size. Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Norway. You also need the modded civs Finland, Iceland and Scotland.), Page 29
5. Belgium (Pangaea, Standard speed, Standard size, Otherwise unmodded but the civ to play is Belgium), Page 30

 

[Shark Diver]

Spoiler I [B]Finally Found Ur[/B] :

I finally found Ur on t208. It's always the last place you look, and now I don't have the gold to immediately buy them as an ally. Sending a spy straight over so it'll be t213 before my Cap finally gets its original King Day Request of sweet sweet Sugar. My cap is still very strong, but some King days would have made it a monster. That's about 170 turns of potential King Days lost due to bad luck.

I'm building Research Labs next turn, so should be Bulbing for Science Victory in about 15 turns. Biggest issue right now is a lack of GPT. I'll focus on that shortly. Still running 4 internal TR's, but that's going to change soon.

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#127 - T248 Cultural Victory

Before I get into my write-up, I just wanted to give a shout-out to Nizef for keeping this thread active. There are a few active participants, and I suspect more than a few lurkers. It would be great if some of you lurkers join in the festivities. I've just recently started coming to this site again, and I'm quite pleased at the reasonable and considerate discussion of this wonderful game that goes on here. It was like this when I was active here 5-6 years ago, and I do enjoy respectful conversation that is so rare in my real world life. I suspect society would be better off if the internet more resembled this forum that most others, but I digress.

Out of appreciation for Nizef, I have tried to stick to the parameters he's set down for each map. He's got a very good feel for what makes a particular game challenging and/or fun (the two are not always mutually inclusive). Trying to follow his pre-determined script with my own variation of how to best play has forced me to expand my skillset and do things I'd not normally do. This has made the game much more fun for me than my typical re-roll for a perfect map to try to beat my own records.

So thank you, Nizef. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

That said, trying to follow the pre-determined victory condition on this map cost me 20+ turns. I'm going to be b*tching about this in my write-up, so please understand that this is more complaining about my own decision making than it is about not liking the map or VC.

I had a blast this game, even if the only way I really used America was with massive tile buying and maybe stealing an extra ruin or two from Kammy. I never built a Minuteman and was just messing around putting up some B-17's when the game ended. My early game wouldn't have been anywhere near as good without being America (buying Mt. Kilo very early), but after that they were pretty plain vanilla, even though the security of their units, if needed, allowed for prioritizing areas other than defense.

A lot of the commentary below is self-criticism. I find self-analyzing post-game to really help me learn this game better. I learn a lot from that, and from when other players of all levels do the same.

Spoiler Ready....Shoot.....Aim..... :

As I said outside the Spoiler, I knew this was a better CV game than SV game pretty early on, but I wanted to see if my own game style could beat the t220 SV mark already set. For the record, let me just say that if I'd have played this game from t1 for CV, I'd have finished around t210. This is a good map with a ton of options open to us.

So, on to our story........

I made the choice to have the 2 coastal citiies' Cargo Ships be hammer ships early. In retrospect, had I made them both food ships, I think everything would have worked better. I had more production than I needed, and an additional 5 Pop in each would have mattered a lot. This circles back to a recent conversation with Vadalaz that I had about the EDGE#121 Ethiopia game. We chose similar settling spots, but he employed his Trade Routes differently (Food over Hammers) and I did the opposite. In that game, his decision was correct. I'm now suspecting that that'll be the case in more games and I am probably going to adjust my play style to reflect this new understanding. Food Ships for most of the game would have probably shaved 5-10 turns off finishing time this game.

This was a very balanced game, with nobody quite breaking away and nobody being totally useless. Diplo was great all the way through, with plenty of RA's and only the Incas to worry about. The Hammer lead bounced around quite a bit until late, and it was tightly bunched for Tech lead until around t180 when I started running away.

WF was pretty tightly contested, even with the world warring itself. No raging war with any cities going down, but constant sniping. In other words, a near perfect Diplo situation.



At this point, I'm well aware that I have an average Science game going but a pretty good Culture game going. I could have just gone full on CV and shaved 20+ points off my finishing time. Instead, I stayed somewhat true to the given instructions, but kept wavering between the two the entire endgame. CV and SV are complimentary but at some point you have to choose. I didn't. But I had fun being greedy instead of efficient. Seeing as how this whole world is insane, a bit of less reasoned game play by me seems justified.

Cultural Heritage Sites was passed in 2nd Congress, and I had control from there and of course I propose IG. I'm still pretending to be trying for SV, but I've got CV as a "backup plan" by now. I'm justifying my Culture tech/policy diversions from the efficient tech path as "defensive".

Self Conversation: "Oh look Shark_Diver, the Brazillians have 2 more Tourism points than we do. We should divert to get hotels instead of beelining SV techs."

Not very smart sometimes, am I? What I should have been doing since I hit Education at t107, which is an acceptable time if you have a strong midgame empire (which I didn't) is change right then and there to a CV strategy. It's a different tech path, and it changes priorities.

IG was as hotly contested as I remember. I had a GA and the hammer lead and I also had spillover hammer bonuses in all 4 cities and it still was close. That's really rare.


After Aesthetics closed and a perfectly executed Archeology game, CV was obviously going to happen before SV. I'm fully themed and I have everything timed for 3 finishing Musicians in a reasonable time. Yet still I stick to this silly SV tech path. Here I am using an Engineer on Hubble, when I could have used him on Cristo 20+ turns ago and expedited several key Policies. Instead I hard-built Cristo, which cost 7 turns of a glorious Cap's production. Snowballing decisions at its finest.


The Diplo was almost perfect as all of the competing AI's followed me into Freedom:


The last 20 turns were all about pretending I was going for a SV and waiting for the strong Tourism/decent Faith to finish the game off. I had easy Musician access to the 3 Culture targets, and nobody had a strong Culture game anyways. I pretty much sat around lamenting the fact that I didn't adjust my strategy at t107 and just take this really good start and make it a great CV game. Can you tell that I'm bitter?

Here's the stats on the final empire. I'll give this empire a B grade, just short of a B+. I'm going to post a thread on my grading system that I think may serve as a useful mini-guide.



If you look at these post-game analytics you'll see how obvious it was that CV was the clearer path. If you have questions on the previous statement, I'm happy to walk anyone through some post-game analytical exercises that really help wit understanding the finer points of this game. It's a casual hobby for me, but I suppose I enjoy discussing and teaching logic and stuff like that. I think Civ 5 is the true "5D Chess". Greatest game ever!

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#127 - T248 Cultural Victory

Before I get into my write-up, I just wanted to give a shout-out to Nizef for keeping this thread active. There are a few active participants, and I suspect more than a few lurkers. It would be great if some of you lurkers join in the festivities. I've just recently started coming to this site again, and I'm quite pleased at the reasonable and considerate discussion of this wonderful game that goes on here. It was like this when I was active here 5-6 years ago, and I do enjoy respectful conversation that is so rare in my real world life. I suspect society would be better off if the internet more resembled this forum that most others, but I digress.

Out of appreciation for Nizef, I have tried to stick to the parameters he's set down for each map. He's got a very good feel for what makes a particular game challenging and/or fun (the two are not always mutually inclusive). Trying to follow his pre-determined script with my own variation of how to best play has forced me to expand my skillset and do things I'd not normally do. This has made the game much more fun for me than my typical re-roll for a perfect map to try to beat my own records.

So thank you, Nizef. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

That said, trying to follow the pre-determined victory condition on this map cost me 20+ turns. I'm going to be b*tching about this in my write-up, so please understand that this is more complaining about my own decision making than it is about not liking the map or VC.

I had a blast this game, even if the only way I really used America was with massive tile buying and maybe stealing an extra ruin or two from Kammy. I never built a Minuteman and was just messing around putting up some B-17's when the game ended. My early game wouldn't have been anywhere near as good without being America (buying Mt. Kilo very early), but after that they were pretty plain vanilla, even though the security of their units, if needed, allowed for prioritizing areas other than defense.

A lot of the commentary below is self-criticism. I find self-analyzing post-game to really help me learn this game better. I learn a lot from that, and from when other players of all levels do the same.

Spoiler Ready....Shoot.....Aim..... :

As I said outside the Spoiler, I knew this was a better CV game than SV game pretty early on, but I wanted to see if my own game style could beat the t220 SV mark already set. For the record, let me just say that if I'd have played this game from t1 for CV, I'd have finished around t210. This is a good map with a ton of options open to us.

So, on to our story........

I made the choice to have the 2 coastal citiies' Cargo Ships be hammer ships early. In retrospect, had I made them both food ships, I think everything would have worked better. I had more production than I needed, and an additional 5 Pop in each would have mattered a lot. This circles back to a recent conversation with Vadalaz that I had about the EDGE#121 Ethiopia game. We chose similar settling spots, but he employed his Trade Routes differently (Food over Hammers) and I did the opposite. In that game, his decision was correct. I'm now suspecting that that'll be the case in more games and I am probably going to adjust my play style to reflect this new understanding. Food Ships for most of the game would have probably shaved 5-10 turns off finishing time this game.

This was a very balanced game, with nobody quite breaking away and nobody being totally useless. Diplo was great all the way through, with plenty of RA's and only the Incas to worry about. The Hammer lead bounced around quite a bit until late, and it was tightly bunched for Tech lead until around t180 when I started running away.

WF was pretty tightly contested, even with the world warring itself. No raging war with any cities going down, but constant sniping. In other words, a near perfect Diplo situation.

View attachment 583021

At this point, I'm well aware that I have an average Science game going but a pretty good Culture game going. I could have just gone full on CV and shaved 20+ points off my finishing time. Instead, I stayed somewhat true to the given instructions, but kept wavering between the two the entire endgame. CV and SV are complimentary but at some point you have to choose. I didn't. But I had fun being greedy instead of efficient. Seeing as how this whole world is insane, a bit of less reasoned game play by me seems justified.

Cultural Heritage Sites was passed in 2nd Congress, and I had control from there and of course I propose IG. I'm still pretending to be trying for SV, but I've got CV as a "backup plan" by now. I'm justifying my Culture tech/policy diversions from the efficient tech path as "defensive".

Self Conversation: "Oh look Shark_Diver, the Brazillians have 2 more Tourism points than we do. We should divert to get hotels instead of beelining SV techs."

Not very smart sometimes, am I? What I should have been doing since I hit Education at t107, which is an acceptable time if you have a strong midgame empire (which I didn't) is change right then and there to a CV strategy. It's a different tech path, and it changes priorities.

IG was as hotly contested as I remember. I had a GA and the hammer lead and I also had spillover hammer bonuses in all 4 cities and it still was close. That's really rare.
View attachment 583017

After Aesthetics closed and a perfectly executed Archeology game, CV was obviously going to happen before SV. I'm fully themed and I have everything timed for 3 finishing Musicians in a reasonable time. Yet still I stick to this silly SV tech path. Here I am using an Engineer on Hubble, when I could have used him on Cristo 20+ turns ago and expedited several key Policies. Instead I hard-built Cristo, which cost 7 turns of a glorious Cap's production. Snowballing decisions at its finest.
View attachment 583022

The Diplo was almost perfect as all of the competing AI's followed me into Freedom:
View attachment 583016

The last 20 turns were all about pretending I was going for a SV and waiting for the strong Tourism/decent Faith to finish the game off. I had easy Musician access to the 3 Culture targets, and nobody had a strong Culture game anyways. I pretty much sat around lamenting the fact that I didn't adjust my strategy at t107 and just take this really good start and make it a great CV game. Can you tell that I'm bitter?

Here's the stats on the final empire. I'll give this empire a B grade, just short of a B+. I'm going to post a thread on my grading system that I think may serve as a useful mini-guide.

View attachment 583015 View attachment 583019 View attachment 583020

If you look at these post-game analytics you'll see how obvious it was that CV was the clearer path. If you have questions on the previous statement, I'm happy to walk anyone through some post-game analytical exercises that really help wit understanding the finer points of this game. It's a casual hobby for me, but I suppose I enjoy discussing and teaching logic and stuff like that. I think Civ 5 is the true "5D Chess". Greatest game ever!
View attachment 583013 View attachment 583018

Spoiler Analyzing My Game - 127 :

As I mentioned, I'm going to start sharing how I grade my games. This has been an informal exercise, but I think it can be loosely quantified. This is my initial effort. Feedback is appreciated.

• Growth - B- : Bad King Day luck and TR choice (Hammer/Food), plus need to divert to Fertilizer/Explosives to get the expos functional at the more demanding level. That slowed both SV and DV paths.
• Religion - A : FPT never broke 100, but was enough to buy the Great People in a timely manner, so this is an A. Sacred Sites and Cathedrals really helped the CV and would have aided the SV. My cities were never in danger of being converted. The only reason this isn't an A+ is because of Kammy keeping me from getting more from Tithe. You've gotta be THE dominant religion to get an A+, but this one was at the low end of a solid A.
• Production - Surprising A : Every expo built the important buildings on time. Just barely, but they did it while not sacrificing growth, The Cap built everything it needed in a quick manner. Only reason this isn't a very low A+ is that it took too long to get all engines firing. Solid effort though.
• Worker Management - A+ I got 5 steals with no Diplo issues and got them early enough that roads were up very early and chops helped early game. Improvement pace was good enough to delete 1st Worker around t120. Uranium and Coal were up efficiently. Railroads went up quickly. This was a very good worker game.
• Science - B+ ; I never got to 900 SPT, had no Observatories, didn't grow as much as I could have. I also deviated from the beeline science path, mostly because Culture made more sense.
• Culture - A- : I was winning Culture quests early, so it's an A. Once you win the first one of those, you ought to win all of them going forward (absent the rare annoying Writer bulb out of nowhere). I hit all of the important policies in a reasonable time, but it was close and I had no room to spare.
• Gold Production -A+ : I had plenty of gold, or just enough, to totally maximize America's US, as I bought a boatload of tiles, which really helps when quarters are a bit cramped as they are on this map. I was going to be a bit shy if I had to use Freedom Spaceship purchasing. I could have upgraded units if I had to defend and had to buy several CS, but I was never found wanting. If you've always got enough, that's an A- even if GPT never reall exceeded 100.
• Overall Strategy - C- : Commit to a strategy and not to a "narrative" us the takeaway from this game. Not LARPing would have made this a great game, but my reptile brain talked me out of being sesnsible.

I also do City ratings, but this post is long enough. I'll do a full post on the subject there is interest? In this game, the Cap was an A-, and the expos were all B- to C+.

 

[Nizef]

EDGE#127 - T248 Cultural Victory

Before I get into my write-up, I just wanted to give a shout-out to Nizef for keeping this thread active. There are a few active participants, and I suspect more than a few lurkers. It would be great if some of you lurkers join in the festivities. I've just recently started coming to this site again, and I'm quite pleased at the reasonable and considerate discussion of this wonderful game that goes on here. It was like this when I was active here 5-6 years ago, and I do enjoy respectful conversation that is so rare in my real world life. I suspect society would be better off if the internet more resembled this forum that most others, but I digress.

Out of appreciation for Nizef, I have tried to stick to the parameters he's set down for each map. He's got a very good feel for what makes a particular game challenging and/or fun (the two are not always mutually inclusive). Trying to follow his pre-determined script with my own variation of how to best play has forced me to expand my skillset and do things I'd not normally do. This has made the game much more fun for me than my typical re-roll for a perfect map to try to beat my own records.

So thank you, Nizef. Your efforts are very much appreciated.

That said, trying to follow the pre-determined victory condition on this map cost me 20+ turns. I'm going to be b*tching about this in my write-up, so please understand that this is more complaining about my own decision making than it is about not liking the map or VC.

I had a blast this game, even if the only way I really used America was with massive tile buying and maybe stealing an extra ruin or two from Kammy. I never built a Minuteman and was just messing around putting up some B-17's when the game ended. My early game wouldn't have been anywhere near as good without being America (buying Mt. Kilo very early), but after that they were pretty plain vanilla, even though the security of their units, if needed, allowed for prioritizing areas other than defense.

A lot of the commentary below is self-criticism. I find self-analyzing post-game to really help me learn this game better. I learn a lot from that, and from when other players of all levels do the same.

Spoiler Ready....Shoot.....Aim..... :

As I said outside the Spoiler, I knew this was a better CV game than SV game pretty early on, but I wanted to see if my own game style could beat the t220 SV mark already set. For the record, let me just say that if I'd have played this game from t1 for CV, I'd have finished around t210. This is a good map with a ton of options open to us.

So, on to our story........

I made the choice to have the 2 coastal citiies' Cargo Ships be hammer ships early. In retrospect, had I made them both food ships, I think everything would have worked better. I had more production than I needed, and an additional 5 Pop in each would have mattered a lot. This circles back to a recent conversation with Vadalaz that I had about the EDGE#121 Ethiopia game. We chose similar settling spots, but he employed his Trade Routes differently (Food over Hammers) and I did the opposite. In that game, his decision was correct. I'm now suspecting that that'll be the case in more games and I am probably going to adjust my play style to reflect this new understanding. Food Ships for most of the game would have probably shaved 5-10 turns off finishing time this game.

This was a very balanced game, with nobody quite breaking away and nobody being totally useless. Diplo was great all the way through, with plenty of RA's and only the Incas to worry about. The Hammer lead bounced around quite a bit until late, and it was tightly bunched for Tech lead until around t180 when I started running away.

WF was pretty tightly contested, even with the world warring itself. No raging war with any cities going down, but constant sniping. In other words, a near perfect Diplo situation.

View attachment 583021

At this point, I'm well aware that I have an average Science game going but a pretty good Culture game going. I could have just gone full on CV and shaved 20+ points off my finishing time. Instead, I stayed somewhat true to the given instructions, but kept wavering between the two the entire endgame. CV and SV are complimentary but at some point you have to choose. I didn't. But I had fun being greedy instead of efficient. Seeing as how this whole world is insane, a bit of less reasoned game play by me seems justified.

Cultural Heritage Sites was passed in 2nd Congress, and I had control from there and of course I propose IG. I'm still pretending to be trying for SV, but I've got CV as a "backup plan" by now. I'm justifying my Culture tech/policy diversions from the efficient tech path as "defensive".

Self Conversation: "Oh look Shark_Diver, the Brazillians have 2 more Tourism points than we do. We should divert to get hotels instead of beelining SV techs."

Not very smart sometimes, am I? What I should have been doing since I hit Education at t107, which is an acceptable time if you have a strong midgame empire (which I didn't) is change right then and there to a CV strategy. It's a different tech path, and it changes priorities.

IG was as hotly contested as I remember. I had a GA and the hammer lead and I also had spillover hammer bonuses in all 4 cities and it still was close. That's really rare.
View attachment 583017

After Aesthetics closed and a perfectly executed Archeology game, CV was obviously going to happen before SV. I'm fully themed and I have everything timed for 3 finishing Musicians in a reasonable time. Yet still I stick to this silly SV tech path. Here I am using an Engineer on Hubble, when I could have used him on Cristo 20+ turns ago and expedited several key Policies. Instead I hard-built Cristo, which cost 7 turns of a glorious Cap's production. Snowballing decisions at its finest.
View attachment 583022

The Diplo was almost perfect as all of the competing AI's followed me into Freedom:
View attachment 583016

The last 20 turns were all about pretending I was going for a SV and waiting for the strong Tourism/decent Faith to finish the game off. I had easy Musician access to the 3 Culture targets, and nobody had a strong Culture game anyways. I pretty much sat around lamenting the fact that I didn't adjust my strategy at t107 and just take this really good start and make it a great CV game. Can you tell that I'm bitter?

Here's the stats on the final empire. I'll give this empire a B grade, just short of a B+. I'm going to post a thread on my grading system that I think may serve as a useful mini-guide.

View attachment 583015 View attachment 583019 View attachment 583020

If you look at these post-game analytics you'll see how obvious it was that CV was the clearer path. If you have questions on the previous statement, I'm happy to walk anyone through some post-game analytical exercises that really help wit understanding the finer points of this game. It's a casual hobby for me, but I suppose I enjoy discussing and teaching logic and stuff like that. I think Civ 5 is the true "5D Chess". Greatest game ever!
View attachment 583013 View attachment 583018

I sincerely thank you for your kind words. I took on the development of this thread for several reasons, with the number one reason being, that there was nothing similar (not taking away anything from DCL and other earlier series). In the process I was also able to develop my own game and skills. Feedback, also negative, is welcome. I think that a well founded dialogue is the best way to keep our great game going and maybe reactivate players or even recruit some new ones.

And to all lurkers of this thread. It would mean a lot to me, if you could find the time to shortly report back on games you have tried. There is no shame in writing that you abandoned it half way through or didn´t like the map/setup/neighbours etc. If you have interesting games to share, you are welcome to contact me and then we could perhaps share them in this thread. Suggestions for new games are also appreciated.

 

[Shark Diver]

If you have interesting games to share, you are welcome to contact me and then we could perhaps share them in this thread. Suggestions for new games are also appreciated.

One of these days I'll get some files off my old laptop. I've got some epic Inca t0 games saved there.

 

[Nizef]

EDGE#130: We all do it all the time, don´t we: Conquer two cities by t15

Yes, the headline is no spelling error. In this game, you unusually are not allowed to move your settler. Instead you have to SIP and move your Warrior to the E and then to the S on the next turn. Your first ruin must be taken exactly on t3, not before and not after. If you do everything right, you should have a 3 city empire on t15! Sure, you will be unhappy but think of this as a thematical opening in chess. After t15 you can go in any direction you want. I went for a CV myself, but I would love to read about other types of adventures. The map is also quite surprising and in my own book, this was a very fun game! I can only hope that you like it as well.

As you already guessed, this time we play as the Huns on an unmodded Fractal map with Standard size and Standard speed. QC and QM are turned on and all VCs are enabled as usual. Besides the locked start, there are no other rules for this game, other than that you have to enjoy it.

I played according to HOF rules and also submitted my game. There is a short recap of it behind the spoiler.

Spoiler :

SIP. Battering Ram upgrade on t3, found the Incas on t4, they settled Tiwanaku on t5 and I conquered it on t6. Their three Warriors tried to counter, but they got killed in the process. Then I marched my might army (BR+Scout) furter to the S. Cusco required three slams but the Incas were gone on t14! Not an everyday event for me. And the best thing was that I had not met anybody else, so no negative modifiers! Third or fourth religion with EM/Tithe/Pagodas/RC/IP. Pretty much optimal. 3 city NC on t82 and Education on t103. Having Dido and Washington as neighbours might be slightly unnerving. Oda and William also showed themselves quite early. William stood his ground against first Dido and then Oda. An unknown AI built Oracle already on t50, that was fast!

My first wonder was Borobudur. Then I went for Sistine and then LToP and GlobeT. I also settled the Marble to the NW, knowing that it would be a bad city (it was pop14 at the end of the game). But Dido was bringing a Settler there and I would rather have the peninsula all to myself. Later I discovered both Aluminium and Oil there, so in the end it was okay. Besides, I needed more Museum slots. I reached Industrialization on t161 and Archeology on t171. I got so many AS that I had to save some of my GAs for later. William had to give in to Odas attacks before Washington finished him off in Modern. I went Freedom and Oda took Authocracy. However the rest of the pack ALL went Order. Thus they started to generate negative modifiers towards me. I tried to keep Washington as my eternal friend and also managed to do that. I also rushed Louvre and Eiffel and hard built Redentor and SOH. I built a fifth city to maximize my cultural slots.

My science was decent and on t260 I had the techs I needed and was about to count the turns it would take me to overtake the culture of Indonesia and Portugal. I was on my way to one of my fastest Deity CVs ever... However, in the same moment Dido and Maria DoW´d me and Gajah denounced me out of the blue (end of diplomats and open borders). The stupid ladies would not give me peace for about 25 turns. At that point Dido was more or less out of the game thanks to me bribing Oda. Eventually she was killed. I needed two GMus for Indonesia and two for Portugal. It took a while to sail the musicians all the way to the other continent but on 306 I declared war on both of them and threw the GMus inside those hostile borders. All in all a fun game. SP: full Tradition, Patronage opener, full Aestethics, Exploration opener, full Rationalism and Freedom 8.

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#128 - Thru T96

Spoiler Amsterdam is Mine!!! :

This was one of the easiest settle-in-place decisions in Civ 5 history. The only regret is that 4th Salt in the 4th ring.

I sent my Warrior North and had good ruin luck. 1st ruin was a Culture ruin. I waited 1 turn for my cap to hit Pop 2 and was rewarded with a Pop ruin. I'm off to the races. Other ruins included Animal Husbandry and Archery, another Pop ruin and a t21 Faith ruin to get my Earth Mother pantheon. I got one Scarcher somewhere along the line.

BO: Scout -Scout -2 turns into a Settler waiting for Pottery to finish - Shrine - Artemis (completed t28) Settler - Settler - Settler - Granary - Library - Watermill - Archer - Oracle - NC (t82) - Hagia Sophia to enhance. With my desired settling spots being contested (and needing to buy Mt. Kilo from the CS), taking Artemis was a bit risky, but I pulled it off mostly due to William's incompetence. I snagged 2 of my ruins from his backyard.

1st Religion took Pagodas. Amsterdam took Cathedrals (and then Monasteries). I founded third and took Tithe - Mosques - Religious Community - Defender of the Faith. I considered getting cheaper prophets, because I want to play around with switching my cities back and forth with William's religion and my own. That's 3 faith buildings in 5 cities. Yes, I've decided I'm going to annex Amsterdam this game and I think War Chariots should do the trick.

Sweden took our Rotterdam t62, and it was right then that I decided I needed a 5th city named Amsterdam.


Monte decided to help me out with my plan and was marching towards the Netherlands (apparently having Open Borders). He'd DoW a few turns later. I had built one War Chariot already and then bought another and a Spearman and started moving my troops into position.


Gee, William, that's a nice religion you've got there. It sure would be a shame if someone took your Cap, bought a prophet to convert all of my own cities, buy the buildings, and then convert back to the Holy Order of Shark Diving.


Sweden jumped into the melee, so there were 3 armies trying to take Amsterdam, which made the timing a bit tricky. Amsterdam was mine on t96. 2 decent Wonders and a Granary and Library. It's only Pop 2, so I'll send it an immediate Caravan. It's got enough good tiles that it should catch up in the build order relatively quickly. The big issue is that Monte took out his expo earlier, so I'm going to get the Warmonger penalty. This has been a violent game already, so I won't be alone with that title, but I'm going to have to build a pretty good sized army with Monte expanding on my front door.


For defensive purposes, I may buy out these hill tiles so I can build a road circle in my Empire. Having Mt. Kilo trained troops and roads in the hills should, combined with Defender of the Faith and General, should make me a pretty tough nut to crack. I've already got my Burial Tombs up, so that gives Monte even more incentive to come at me.


The Cap is looking pretty good and I'll be at Civil Service shortly, which will really help. I'd like to have used that food Caravan on the Cap, but Amsterdam needs it more. I'll make up for it later.


Here's the empire on t96. It's going to be a pretty good production empire, although maybe a bit short on growth in the northern expos. I did consider a food follower belief, but I know I'm going to need the hammers. I'll have 4 garden cities but only 1 Observatory. My biggest regret was no coastal cities, but it just didn't make sense with this map. My 1st scout is making good progress across the world and skipping the sailing techs is nice sometimes.


There was no preferred victory condition for this game, so I'm just going to Sim City until I see how the game develops. All VC's should be on the table, and GPT has been great.

I'll hit Education around t110, which is later than I feel like it should have been. Maybe the 5th city impact slowed it more than I thought. I did take a quick tech detour to try to build Machu in my mountain expo. It's got good production and 2 easy chops, so I think that's worth the tradeoff. Wonders in at least 3 cities would be somewhat unique, and points towards a CV.

Does anyone remember what game mechanic adds tourism to cities that have built Wonders? I can't seem to recall what that is.

I'm off to build some Wonders, hi-ho hi-ho.

 

[Shark Diver]

If you do everything right, you should have a 3 city empire on t15!

I've done this before in Hun games. The unhappiness is brutal.

What I write next assumes you took 2 CS? Most of it applies if it was another Civ.

The other issue is that if you are taking CS with a single Battering Ram they are most likely flatland CS, so lack production to get up to speed. Unless you got lucky and the 2nd CS had a t13 Worker, you are also going to be severely short on workers. This is a recipe for a very slow start, not to mention the permanent CS penalty.

If I play this map, I may just stick with taking one city early. That's still the equivalent of an El Dorado start.

 

[Nizef]

I've done this before in Hun games. The unhappiness is brutal.

What I write next assumes you took 2 CS? Most of it applies if it was another Civ.

The other issue is that if you are taking CS with a single Battering Ram they are most likely flatland CS, so lack production to get up to speed. Unless you got lucky and the 2nd CS had a t13 Worker, you are also going to be severely short on workers. This is a recipe for a very slow start, not to mention the permanent CS penalty.

If I play this map, I may just stick with taking one city early. That's still the equivalent of an El Dorado start.

Well neither city is a CS...

 

[Shark Diver]

Well neither city is a CS...

Well now I HAVE to play this map. I didn't think it was possible to take 2 AI cities that early. They usually have at least 2 units around, and that's usually enough to kill a Ram.

I would imagine the slow start issues I discussed are still prevalent?

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#128 - T150 Update

Spoiler Renaissance Success :

This world is not a happy place, and yes, I'm partially to blame.

After taking Amsterdam, I was up to 5 Wonders, and then this popped up:


Maria was #1 in score, so something had to be done about this. Monte was the cheapest to bribe, so I sent him off to war for a pittance. Rome was not happy about this, so they DoW'd Monte. Babylon was already down to their Cap, thanks to Rome. This was working out nicely. Not long after, Monte took a city from Portugal and they made peace. In this screenshot, Lisbon was 5 pop bigger than the next two caps (mine and Indonesia's), but these don't look like the lands of a powerful Cap, do they? I have to assume she was using Cargo ships in that inland sea, and losing that city will slow her down a lot.


Indonesia was running away with the early Culture and Faith quests, so I decided to get them fighting too. Monte again was the cheapest option and it looks like he might be getting worn down from warring 3 strong Civs at once. I'm a bit concerned at all of the Generals he's going to have to steal my land later, but at least I already have 1 General of my own to counter. I'm going to have to start building more units again, as GPT has slowed. Thankfully, I should have plenty of production to fit a few units in.

In a bit of an oddity, Monte had captured Utrecht on t93. Here, 40 turns later, Utrecht is still at Pop 1. I'm tempted to put a Diplomat into that city just to see WTH is going on there. I was hoping he'd raze that city, but he's on some bloodlust thing this game and is therefore incredibly useful, if dangerous, given his position in the dead center of the map.


I have now converted all of my cities, including my Cap, to the Dutch religion and am about 2 turns away from buying the last Cathedral in my Cap. I've got a Prophet ready to spread the Holy Order of Shark Diving back to my cap and other cities in about 2 turns. They'll all buy Mosques for 240 Faith and the production boost will time well with WF. Indonesia, who had the other faith building (Pagodas), took Jesuit Education, so I'll be getting Sacred Sites in 2 more policies. If Indo sends a Prophet anywhere near me, it's getting captured, and then I'll have a few cities with 8 or more Tourism from Sacred Sites (I'll faith buy at least one Science building in each). It won't be that costly to convert my cities back to Shark Diving, as I have the Piety finisher only 1 policy away. I doubt I'll be planting any Prophets this game.


This has been a strong Science game. I was 5th to Renaissance, but first to Printing Press. I had a natural Engineer from the early Artemis and bulbed for Pisa, took another GE, hard built Globe, and bulbed for Sistine. I could have hard-built Sistine, but 2 other Civs got there the same turn and I didn't want to risk it even with Egypt's bonus and my strong Cap. Artist's Guild was up very early in Cap, and although I have garden city expos, I still put the Writer's guild in the Cap as well. I'll put Musician's Guild in Amsterdam now that it is up and growing fast.


All expos are doing just fine. Growth will slow soon in a couple of them as I run out of good tiles, but this is looking like a Freedom game, so I'll be working a lot of specialists.


Of course I proposed World's Fair, and it should be a foregone conclusion. Hammer lead has been fluctuating quite a bit, but I can switch to full production mode and run away with this one. It doesn't feel like I'm still behind in Techs, but that score is likely reflecting my lack of cheap Sailing techs.


If I'm first to Architecture, I should be able to hard build Taj Majal and Porcelain just before WF. I'll need a couple of hammer Caravans to make sure. I'll also be able to get my Hermitage up very shortly after WF ends, so this is going to be a very strong Culture game. I might even be able to win a couple of ongoing CS Culture quests, as I've caught up to Indo's CPT thanks to getting a couple of Cultural allies.

It's paramount that I get Porcelain built prior to WF, as I'll likely need that Scientist to get to Radio before the 2nd Conference proposals are due. I should be able to propose IG in the 2nd Congress, and the strong Sacred Sites Tourism should be fully in place by then.

I was able to work Scientist slots in all cities very early this game, so both SV and CV are very much on the table right now. Depending on how strong Indo's Culture game is from here on, that'll probably decide my path.

With a bit of luck, this could end up being a very quick finish. I'm thinking a sub t210 CV. My Pop isn't strong enough for a truly great SV game, but that's still in play.

 

[Shark Diver]

EDGE#130: We all do it all the time, don´t we: Conquer two cities by t15

I should have read your spoiler prior to commenting. It seems you really pulled off an epic start. I am DEFINITELY going to play this game when I can get to it.

Spoiler Who Built t50 Oracle? :

" An unknown AI built Oracle already on t50, that was fast!"

I'd be willing to wager Pacal is in your game. Either that or Egypt.

 

[Nizef]

Spoiler Who Built t50 Oracle? :

" An unknown AI built Oracle already on t50, that was fast!"

I'd be willing to wager Pacal is in your game. Either that or Egypt.

[/QUOTE]

The truth is many times more surprising than the tale. Neither of those two are in the game.

 

[Shark Diver]

Spoiler Who Built t50 Oracle? :

" An unknown AI built Oracle already on t50, that was fast!"

I'd be willing to wager Pacal is in your game. Either that or Egypt.

The truth is many times more surprising than the tale. Neither of those two are in the game.[/QUOTE]
Say no more. If your goal was to entice me and others to play this map, you've succeeded.

I can't imagine any other AI getting Oracle that early. This is a Wonder I assume I'm going to get if it's still there at t70.

 

[Nizef]

Well now I HAVE to play this map. I didn't think it was possible to take 2 AI cities that early. They usually have at least 2 units around, and that's usually enough to kill a Ram.

I would imagine the slow start issues I discussed are still prevalent?

I got one worker from Cusco. A nearby CS had a worker ready on t20 and then I hard built one in my cap directly after the shrine. All of that helped. But sure, it was still a little slow. I know we both have flatland allergy and in that sense the AI expand looks just awful. However, there are enough good tiles for the early game and I only had to take Fertilizer a little sooner than I normally would have to make that city a valuable part of my empire.

After finishing the game, I replayed the start a couple of times to be sure that you would be able to copy my start. I then discovered, that with perfect play, it would be possible to get two workers from the Incas. That should speed things up a bit.

Say no more. If your goal was to entice me and others to play this map, you've succeeded.

I can't imagine any other AI getting Oracle that early. This is a Wonder I assume I'm going to get if it's still there at t70.

Unless Pacal or Ramesses is in the game, I expect to get the Oracle even on t80-83. But that is why this occasion was so rare, that I wanted to mention it separately.

 

[Shark Diver]

I only had to take Fertilizer a little sooner than I normally would have to make that city a valuable part of my empire.

This is a topic worthy of discussion. I have found myself prioritizing Fertilizer/Explosives right after Radio and before Archeology quite often to get the expos back to growth.

 

[Nizef]

This is a topic worthy of discussion. I have found myself prioritizing Fertilizer/Explosives right after Radio and before Archeology quite often to get the expos back to growth.

I took it after Archeology, between Electricity and Radio. This is quite rare, but I calculated that my science was good enough for a detour before rushing Eiffel.

 

[vadalaz]

#128 Egypt - T219 CV

Spoiler :

That was a strange game that took longer than it should have. I had all the ingredients for victory before turn 200, but World Congress had been founded really early, so I only managed to propose International Games on the third session.

Egypt has a great Temple UB, so I wanted to do a Piety game. The initial plan was to go wide with Collective Rule into Reformation and see where that leads me. I opened with Scout x2 - Monument - Shrine - Granary - Archers - Settlers. Ruins and CSs gave me enough gold to buy a worker on turn 20 to improve all that Salt. I also left two ruins for turn 20 and got the first pantheon (Earth Mother) from one of them.

Early aggression:
Valletta - stole two workers then made peace
Netherlands - stole a settler and a worker, Salt <> 218g peace
Portugal - 100g trade route pillage, Salt and embassy <> 275g peace

This gives me enough gold to buy a settler, which should help compensate for a somewhat slow start with no culture ruins.

Spoiler T50 :

Pretty standard stuff so far, but then I notice that it's turn 50 and I'm still the only one with a pantheon! Not sure why the AIs all ignored religion for so long in this game. Check this out:

I meet La Venta on turn 78, and the leader of their faith quest has made a whopping 4 faith in 30 turns. What is this nonsense? I don't win this quest though. I suppose the CS's turn 78 is processed and the quest ends before my +22 fpt from turn 78 is added.

Anyway, I research Construction and get ready to attack the Netherlands. My military advisor tells me Gustavus has a pretty strong army ("his army can wipe me off the planet" Sweden vs "about the same strength" Netherlands), so I bribe him to attack William a few turns before I join the fight myself. I was planning to take the capital, but then this happens:

I'll take that. I can't hold the city for long against Dutch units, so I make peace with the intention to take Amsterdam 10 turns later. Now Gustavus doesn't like that I'm "building new cities too aggressively," but fortunately taking the city also gives me a bright green "fought against a common foe" buff.

I move some of my units over to Rotterdam, build a couple of extra War Chariots and declare war on the Netherlands for the third time in this game. After I take Amsterdam, William is left with just one city, so naturally I bribe Monty to eliminate him. The world needs someone to hate, and it better not be me.

Meanwhile I build the Pyramids, Mausoleum, Oracle and Great Mosque. I get Pagodas and Mosques completely uncontested, so I decide to go for Sacred Sites here. I reach Education and Reformation both on turn 111.

Spoiler :

World Congress is founded on turn 117 by Rome. Augustus engineers LToP and 6-turns Globe Theatre. No chance to get those wonders and no chance to reach Radio in time for the second Congress session either. Augustus and Gajah are both doing really well, I have top crop yield but otherwise they're leading all the demos.

Since I know there's no point in researching Printing Press, I go for Acoustics and Architecture instead. I do get Sistine, Taj Mahal and Uffizi, although I have to delay Secularism to open Aesthetics. In hindsight, I didn't really need to take the 20% discount policy in Piety so early - that should've been Aesthetics opener instead.

Spoiler T150 :

Architecture -> Sci Theory -> Electricity (GS bulb) -> Radio (Oxford) for a turn 163 ideology. I pick Order because I'm not planning to invest much culture into ideology and instead focus on finishing Aesthetics, Liberty and Piety. I use the Liberty finisher GE for Broadway while hard-building Eiffel Tower. By T200 I also have all my museums filled and I've got 5000 faith stored for GMus, but the third congress vote is still 6 turns away.

This is garbage time, I'm building labs and teching towards Radar, but none of this really matters. In reality I'm just waiting for International Games. Eventually the project does get passed, and it gets built remarkably quickly.

I bet Augustus really wanted that.

Anyway, IG is completed on turn 214 and the game is over 5 turns later. I even have one spare GMu in the end.

Spoiler T219 :