Environment gets Bushed

[El_Machinae]

Which explains why we've kept accelerating our rate of global pollution for the last ten years, and temperatures have remained level, and then dramatically fallen...

Take the last decade of global temperature and run a linear regression on it. The temp has gone up. Meanwhile the rate of ice melting has gone faster than predicted.

Now, here's an experiment to do. Put two pots on the stove, fill them with water. Dump two trays of ice into each. Turn on the heat under one and come back after 10 minutes. Notice how the icecubes are much smaller in the one pot, nearly gone? Now measure the temps of both pots. Notice how they're nearly the same?

Do we conclude that turning on the heat under a pot of water has no effect?

Absolutely? Absolutely huh? You're sure about that?

No, it's a big coincidence that the CO2 ppm goes up between 1/3 and 2/3 of our outputs, year to year.

Wanna mention Mars warming? Dinosaurs surviving Noah's Flood?

So ignore the pacific garbage island. And keep arguing about if a small percentage of a small percentage of a small percentage of increase in a certain greenhouse gas is going to melt the worlds ice by taking an outlier on a huge swath of statistical data. I'm sure we'll be successful.

Ignore what? Just recently I posted a thread regarding a protection fund for the Congo jungle. I'm pretty sure I've mentioned the pacific garbage island on CFC. What else have I ignored? I started a thread talking about the economic decisions around ecological rapacity. What else? Oh yeah, a thread about partisan environmental solutions.

But, you know what, everything is important. Foisting poverty onto far-away people is something that needs to be fought. You want your big car so you can feel safe because you're surrounded by jerks. I get that. All I'm asking is that you pay to offset the damages you've done, or stop.

Also, everyone tosses the word "research" around really liberally around here. Leftists love to toss it around in regards to global warming. Doesn't it bother you people the slightest bit that there is so much money in this? And doesn't it bother you that in order to get research money, you have to publish dooms day articles in scientific journals? Ya know, because if you conduct a study, and it doesn't point to global warming, it won't get published, and you won't recieve further funding? Doesn't this grind peoples gears? Billions of dollars is dumped into "global warming research" that has a singlur end tied to it. An agenda. And if you are a reputable scientist, and come out against the grain, your career is essentially over. Governments don't grant money to these people. Scientists live off of a research grants. And in order to get it, you gotta go with the flow. Seems problematic, and almost like...anti-science.

Science will come to a consensus when the researchers are on the right track, as well. And I don't think you are accepting that global warming had to fight it's way as a theory through ranks of peer-review and critical thinking. There's no conspiracy to hide the truth in the swaths of research organisations. Yeah, it's become sexy. But it hasn't become sexy enough for us to even begin thinking about, you know, NOT changing the environment around the planet due to our desire to eat cows or drive pickups to our deskjobs.

And, amazingly, all of the 'objections to the theory' spouted in the internet fights are as crappy of objections as we see when dealing with Creationism.

Wanna talk anti-science? My daughter's church taught her that there was a Global Flood and that they had the knowledge to tell her that. That's cultural anti-science

 

[History_Buff]

And I don't think you are accepting that global warming had to fight it's way as a theory through ranks of peer-review and critical thinking

Just to really drive this one home: The earliest mention I've seen of scientific concern that CO2 emissions would hurt the Earth dates back to 1953. 50 years, and it's only becoming a big deal now. That's how much work has been building behind this one.

 

[ainwood]

Now, here's an experiment to do. Put two pots on the stove, fill them with water. Dump two trays of ice into each. Turn on the heat under one and come back after 10 minutes. Notice how the icecubes are much smaller in the one pot, nearly gone? Now measure the temps of both pots. Notice how they're nearly the same?

That is a poor analogy. In a pot, convection from the element to the bottom of the pot is the dominant heat transfer mechanism - in fact, in comparison, all others are basically negligable. The convection is such that the water and the ice will be in equilibrium - ie. the overall temperature of the water won't actually increase until all the ice is melted. It wil reamin at the water triple-point.

No, it's a big coincidence that the CO2 ppm goes up between 1/3 and 2/3 of our outputs, year to year.

Correlation does not mean causallity.

But, you know what, everything is important. Foisting poverty onto far-away people is something that needs to be fought. You want your big car so you can feel safe because you're surrounded by jerks. I get that. All I'm asking is that you pay to offset the damages you've done, or stop.

Ironically, restricting emissions on and trade with the third world will prevent their industrialisation and reduce growth. Starving them and restricting trade because they can't afford inflated costs won't help them much either.

Science will come to a consensus when the researchers are on the right track, as well. And I don't think you are accepting that global warming had to fight it's way as a theory through ranks of peer-review and critical thinking. There's no conspiracy to hide the truth in the swaths of research organisations.

The reality is that the peer review process used in climate science is not as robust as the IPCC would have you believe. www.climateaudit.com is a good starting place. I suggest you read up and find how the author (Steve McIntyre) has had real problems getting any data out of the IPCC reviewers, even under the OIA. Isn't the whole idea of peer review & publishing in journals so that other people can replicate your work? That process is being stymied.

And, amazingly, all of the 'objections to the theory' spouted in the internet fights are as crappy of objections as we see when dealing with Creationism.

Sorry, that is just plain wrong.

 

[El_Machinae]

Just plain wrong?

Ironically, restricting emissions on and trade with the third world will prevent their industrialisation and reduce growth. Starving them and restricting trade because they can't afford inflated costs won't help them much either.

Then what the hell is this?
It's the Climate Change equivalent of tossing the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics into a discussion of Evolution.

Do you even SEE the massive strawman you've presented and the obvious solutions to the (actual) underlying theme of your opposition? Why even mention it, except to refute it with solutions? Except you didn't.

 

[ainwood]

Just plain wrong?

Then what the hell is this?
It's the Climate Change equivalent of tossing the 2nd Law of Thermodynamics into a discussion of Evolution.

No, it is not. One is a discussion of the underlying theory of global warming. The other is a discussion of the potential impacts of proposed mitigations.

Do you even SEE the massive strawman you've presented and the obvious solutions to the (actual) underlying theme of your opposition? Why even mention it, except to refute it with solutions? Except you didn't.

err... its not a strawman. Its two separate topics.

 

[BasketCase]

Goodie! Another global warming thread! I apologize for slacking off on this one, I've been off in la-la land for a couple of weeks.

Letsee, the following spat between Machinae and Ainwood seems to be a good spot:

But, you know what, everything is important. Foisting poverty onto far-away people is something that needs to be fought. You want your big car so you can feel safe because you're surrounded by jerks. I get that. All I'm asking is that you pay to offset the damages you've done, or stop.

Lemme tell y'all what China is doing right now: they are industrializing. At the expense of the environment. And, when other nations demand that China do its part to combat global warming, China's answer is a very blunt and straightforward "bite me". China has said very plainly that they will not take any action against global warming that hampers their economic growth. They refuse to pay to offset the damage they're doing (which is a LOT) and they refuse to stop doing that damage.

When (or, rather, if) China catches up to the U.S., they will be doing THREE TIMES as much damage to the environment as the U.S.; the same holds true for India, by the way, but for some reason India keeps slipping off the radar. Both of these extremely large nations must be held to account.

When global warming activists point the finger at the U.S. and ignore China and India, it becomes clear that the environment is not their real agenda at all.

 

[Ammar]

When global warming activists point the finger at the U.S. and ignore China and India, it becomes clear that the environment is not their real agenda at all.

Unfair accusations. If you actually look you can see that they don't say that the U.S. is solely responsible and that we could ignore everyone else.

And whatever the status of India and China maybe sometime in the future - the fact is that the U.S. is leading CO2 Output per capita.

In addition to that China is a dictatorial state with a developing economy and the U.S. is the richest country and has a long democratic tradition. Is it so strange that the World expect more of them? Like it or not the U.S. still has a leadership role - and it provides an easy diversion for China and other developing countries. "Oh, look at them Americans, they are much richer than we and don't do anything so why should we?"

 

[CheScott]

Partisan bickering, hairsplitting and nitpicking like this really only make me cross my fingers for Global Warming.

Whatever the case for Global Warming, all signs are pointing to caution and everyone is in agreement that there is a problem and rather than saying 'Gee, maybe we should take our collective foot off the gas until we have a better idea of what's going,' we seem perfectly happy to surge forward, oblivious to the possible consequences and rationalizing it all with 'Well, China and India are doing it!'

If China and India jumped off a bridge, I sincerely hope America would follow suit in the same way.

If, for whatever reason; be it Global Warming, Nuclear War, Meteorite, whatever. If humanity gets wiped out or suffers a massive cataclysm, it's not like we didn't deserve it. Maybe that's the answer to Fermi's Paradox. Maybe all intelligent life is just that stupid.

 

[BasketCase]

Unfair accusations.

Absolutely unfair accusations. But then, the world isn't fair.

If you actually look you can see that they don't say that the U.S. is solely responsible and that we could ignore everyone else.

Straw man. I know perfectly well they don't say that. They DO it. Envioronmental activists do NOT say "the U.S. is solely responsible and we can ignore everybody else". The activists simply ignore everybody else.

And whatever the status of India and China maybe sometime in the future - the fact is that the U.S. is leading CO2 Output per capita.

And the fact is China and India are leading the U.S. in total output.

Another fact is that China and India will both pass up the U.S. in output per capita within ten years, tops. Assuming they haven't already.

You cannot ignore the two problems that are India and China. You must do something to prevent them from becoming a problem three times as big (EACH) as the U.S. currently is. You are not addressing this facet of the problem.

Like it or not the U.S. still has a leadership role

Yeah, well, I refuse to accept it.

I'm not going to do a damn thing about global warming.

So there. Now you have to do something about China and India. You don't have any choice.


Edit: Quick tip for ya, dude. NEVER PLAY POKER. EVER.

 

[skadistic]

Just a reminder that the following things are caused by global warming.:


Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa in conflict, aggressive weeds, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, Agulhas current moves, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer shortage, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds return early, birds driven north, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, blizzards, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain Siberian, British gardens change, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, cataracts, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, death rate increase (US), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, Earth wobbling, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, gorillas, walrus, whales, frogs, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever,figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier grows (California), glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, god melts, golf Masters wrecked, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, ice shelf collapse, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains melting, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, penguin chicks frozen, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar bears starve, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snowfall reduction, soaring food prices, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, stingray invasion, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed,, trees could return to Antarctic, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, turtles crash, turtles lay earlier, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Wow. As Eliezer Yudkowsky said, Politics is the Mind-Killer.

Arguments are soldiers. Once you know which side you're on, you must support all arguments of that side, and attack all arguments that appear to favor the enemy side; otherwise it's like stabbing your soldiers in the back - providing aid and comfort to the enemy. People who would be level-headed about evenhandedly weighing all sides of an issue in their professional life as scientists, can suddenly turn into slogan-chanting zombies when there's a Blue or Green position on an issue.

No matter the outright falsity of the arguments.

A complete list of things caused by global warming
[...] billions of deaths [...]

GLOBAL warming is irreversible and billions of people will die over the next century, one of the world's leading climate change scientists claimed yesterday. Professor James Lovelock, the scientist who developed the Gaia principle (that Earth is a self-regulating, interconnected system), claimed that by the year 2100 the only place where humans will be able to survive will be the Arctic.

(bold mine)

As appears to be usual with skadistic now that he's become a neo-Creationist, the links do not support the arguments.

Go away, skadistic. Fight your little war and shotgun your objections somewhere else.

 

[skadistic]

Wow. As Eliezer Yudkowsky said, Politics is the Mind-Killer.



No matter the outright falsity of the arguments.

(bold mine)

As appears to be usual with skadistic now that he's become a neo-Creationist, the links do not support the arguments.

Go away, skadistic. Fight your little war and shotgun your objections somewhere else.

Yeah I'm a neo-creationist.

What argument did I make with the links that aren't supported? Can you quote it? I'd like to know exactly what my argument is. Should be easy for you, right? Since you know I even made an argument. All I did was post a link to a site that has a list of all the things blamed on global warming. Now what exact argument was I making here?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Yeah I'm a neo-creationist.

Yup. I listed the tactics in detail earlier.

What argument did I make with the links that aren't supported?

Where did I say that you made an argument with those links?

Can you quote it?

Can you quote where I said anything like that?

I'd like to know exactly what my argument is.

I'd like to know where I said "your argument".

 

[skadistic]

Yup. I listed the tactics in detail earlier.
Yup you sure did. And just like then its still wrong.
Where did I say that you made an argument with those links?And I quote: "As appears to be usual with skadistic now that he's become a neo-Creationist, the links do not support the arguments.". So what argument isn't supported by the links? Was it some one eles' argument? Was it mine? What is the argument that isn't supported?
Can you quote where I said anything like that?I just did.
I'd like to know where I said "your argument".

So there was no argument made by me but you addressed me. So who's arguments are not supported by the links? Was it the arguments in the links? If its not my arguments then what is you point exactly? Why would you bring up arguments that no one made? Arguments that aren't supported by the links? Well what arguments? Since I didn't make one and you are addressing me and you say that it wasn't my arguments, then who's exactly?

 

[Erik Mesoy]

incoherent obfuscations that don't get quoted

Call me back when you can stop writing in other people's quote boxes.

 

[Ansar]

So there was no argument made by me but you addressed me. So who's arguments are not supported by the links? Was it the arguments in the links? If its not my arguments then what is you point exactly? Why would you bring up arguments that no one made? Arguments that aren't supported by the links? Well what arguments? Since I didn't make one and you are addressing me and you say that it wasn't my arguments, then who's exactly?

Please fully reply outside the quote box.

 

[skadistic]

Please fully reply outside the quote box.No.

Please stop asking. If you don't like it don't reply to me. Don't read it. And don't follow me around asking me.

 

[Erik Mesoy]

Just a reminder that the following things are caused by global warming.:

Spoiler a set of quotemined shotgun objections that should be brought up more individually if they're valid instead of posted in spam fashion where there's obviously no intent to actually debate the list :

Acne, agricultural land increase, Afghan poppies destroyed, Africa devastated, African aid threatened, Africa in conflict, aggressive weeds, air pressure changes, Alaska reshaped, Agulhas current moves, allergies increase, Alps melting, Amazon a desert, American dream end, amphibians breeding earlier (or not), anaphylactic reactions to bee stings, ancient forests dramatically changed, animals head for the hills, Antarctic grass flourishes, Antarctic ice grows, Antarctic ice shrinks, Antarctic sea life at risk, anxiety treatment, algal blooms, archaeological sites threatened, Arctic bogs melt, Arctic in bloom, Arctic ice free, Arctic ice melt faster, Arctic lakes disappear, Arctic tundra to burn, Atlantic less salty, Atlantic more salty, atmospheric circulation modified, attack of the killer jellyfish, avalanches reduced, avalanches increased, Baghdad snow, Bahrain under water, bananas grow, barbarisation, beer shortage, beetle infestation, bet for $10,000, better beer, big melt faster, billion dollar research projects, billion homeless, billions face risk, billions of deaths, bird distributions change, bird loss accelerating, bird visitors drop, birds confused, birds return early, birds driven north, bittern boom ends, blackbirds stop singing, blackbirds threatened, blizzards, blue mussels return, bluetongue, brains shrink, bridge collapse (Minneapolis), Britain Siberian, British gardens change, brothels struggle, brown Ireland, bubonic plague, budget increases, Buddhist temple threatened, building collapse, building season extension, bushfires, business opportunities, business risks, butterflies move north, camel deaths, cancer deaths in England, cannibalism, cataracts, caterpillar biomass shift, cave paintings threatened, childhood insomnia, Cholera, circumcision in decline, cirrus disappearance, civil unrest, cloud increase, cloud stripping, cockroach migration, coffee threatened, cold climate creatures survive, cold spells (Australia), cold wave (India), computer models, conferences, conflict, conflict with Russia, consumers foot the bill, coral bleaching, coral fish suffer, coral reefs dying, coral reefs grow, coral reefs shrink , coral reefs twilight, cost of trillions, cougar attacks, cradle of civilisation threatened, creatures move uphill, crime increase, crocodile sex, crops devastated, crumbling roads, buildings and sewage systems, curriculum change, cyclones (Australia), danger to kid's health, Darfur, Dartford Warbler plague, death rate increase (US), Dengue hemorrhagic fever, depression, desert advance, desert retreat, destruction of the environment, disappearance of coastal cities, diseases move north, Dolomites collapse, drought, ducks and geese decline, dust bowl in the corn belt, early marriages, early spring, earlier pollen season, Earth biodiversity crisis, Earth dying, Earth even hotter, Earth light dimming, Earth lopsided, Earth melting, Earth morbid fever, Earth on fast track, Earth past point of no return, Earth slowing down, Earth spins faster, Earth to explode, earth upside down, Earth wobbling, earthquakes, earthquakes redux, El Niño intensification, end of the world as we know it, erosion, emerging infections, encephalitis, English villages lost, equality threatened, Europe simultaneously baking and freezing, eutrophication, evolution accelerating, expansion of university climate groups, extinctions (human, civilisation, logic, Inuit, smallest butterfly, cod, ladybirds, pikas, polar bears, gorillas, walrus, whales, frogs, toads, plants, salmon, trout, wild flowers, woodlice, penguins, a million species, half of all animal and plant species, mountain species, not polar bears, barrier reef, leaches, tropical insects) experts muzzled, extreme changes to California, fading fall foliage, fainting, famine, farmers benefit, farmers go under, farm output boost, fashion disaster, fever,figurehead sacked, fir cone bonanza, fish catches drop, fish downsize, fish catches rise, fish deaf, fish get lost, fish stocks at risk, fish stocks decline, five million illnesses, flesh eating disease, flood patterns change, floods, floods of beaches and cities, flood of migrants, flood preparation for crisis, Florida economic decline, flowers in peril, food poisoning, food prices rise, food prices soar, food security threat (SA), footpath erosion, forest decline, forest expansion, frog with extra heads, frostbite, frost damage increased, frosts, fungi fruitful, fungi invasion, games change, Garden of Eden wilts, genetic diversity decline, gene pools slashed, giant oysters invade, giant pythons invade, giant squid migrate, gingerbread houses collapse, glacial earthquakes, glacial retreat, glacial growth, glacier grows (California), glacier wrapped, global cooling, global dimming, glowing clouds, god melts, golf Masters wrecked, Gore omnipresence, grandstanding, grasslands wetter, Great Barrier Reef 95% dead, Great Lakes drop, great tits cope, greening of the North, Grey whales lose weight, Gulf Stream failure, habitat loss, Hantavirus pulmonary syndrome, harmful algae, harvest increase, harvest shrinkage, hay fever epidemic, health affected, health of children harmed, heart disease, heart attacks and strokes (Australia), heat waves, hibernation affected, hibernation ends too soon, hibernation ends too late, HIV epidemic, homeless 50 million, hornets, high court debates, human development faces unprecedented reversal, human fertility reduced, human health improvement, human health risk, human race oblivion, hurricanes, hurricane reduction, hurricanes fewer, hurricanes not, hydropower problems, hyperthermia deaths, ice sheet growth, ice sheet shrinkage, ice shelf collapse, illness and death, inclement weather, India drowning, infrastructure failure (Canada), industry threatened, infectious diseases, inflation in China, insect explosion, insurance premium rises, Inuit displacement, Inuit poisoned, Inuit suing, invasion of cats, invasion of herons, invasion of jellyfish, invasion of midges, island disappears, islands sinking, itchier poison ivy, jellyfish explosion, jets fall from sky, jet stream drifts north, Kew Gardens taxed, kidney stones, killer cornflakes, killing us, kitten boom, koalas under threat, krill decline, lake and stream productivity decline, lake empties, lake shrinking and growing, landslides, landslides of ice at 140 mph, lawsuits increase, lawsuit successful, lawyers' income increased (surprise surprise!), lives saved, Loch Ness monster dead, lush growth in rain forests, Malaria, mammoth dung melt, mango harvest fails, Maple production advanced, Maple syrup shortage, marine diseases, marine food chain decimated, Meaching (end of the world), Mediterranean rises, megacryometeors, Melanoma, methane emissions from plants, methane burps, methane runaway, melting permafrost, Middle Kingdom convulses, migration, migration difficult (birds), migratory birds huge losses, microbes to decompose soil carbon more rapidly, minorities hit, monkeys on the move, Mont Blanc grows, monuments imperiled, moose dying, more bad air days, more research needed, mortality increased, mountain (Everest) shrinking, mountains break up, mountains green and flowering, mountains melting, mountains taller, mortality lower, Myanmar cyclone, narwhals at risk, National security implications, native wildlife overwhelmed, natural disasters quadruple, new islands, next ice age, NFL threatened, Nile delta damaged, noctilucent clouds, no effect in India, Northwest Passage opened, nuclear plants bloom, oaks dying, oaks move north, ocean acidification, ocean deserts expand, ocean waves speed up, opera house to be destroyed, outdoor hockey threatened, ozone repair slowed, ozone rise, Pacific dead zone, penguin chicks frozen, personal carbon rationing, pest outbreaks, pests increase, phenology shifts, plankton blooms, plankton destabilised, plankton loss, plant viruses, plants march north, plants move uphill, polar bears aggressive, polar bears cannibalistic, polar bears drowning, polar bears starve, polar tours scrapped, popcorn rise, porpoise astray, profits collapse, psychiatric illness, puffin decline, railroad tracks deformed, rainfall increase, rape wave, refugees, release of ancient frozen viruses, resorts disappear, rice threatened, rice yields crash, rift on Capitol Hill, rioting and nuclear war, river flow impacted, rivers raised, roads wear out, robins rampant, rocky peaks crack apart, roof of the world a desert, rooftop bars, Ross river disease, ruins ruined, salinity reduction, salinity increase, Salmonella, satellites accelerate, school closures, sea level rise, sea level rise faster, seals mating more, sewer bills rise, severe thunderstorms, sex change, sexual promiscuity, shark attacks, sharks booming, sharks moving north, sheep shrink, shop closures, short-nosed dogs endangered, shrinking ponds, shrinking shrine, ski resorts threatened, skin cancer, slow death, smaller brains, smog, snowfall increase, snowfall heavy, snowfall reduction, soaring food prices, societal collapse, songbirds change eating habits, sour grapes, space problem, spectacular orchids, spiders invade Scotland, squid aggressive giants, squid population explosion, squirrels reproduce earlier, stingray invasion, storms wetter, stormwater drains stressed, street crime to increase, subsidence, suicide, swordfish in the Baltic, Tabasco tragedy, taxes, tectonic plate movement, teenage drinking, terrorism, threat to peace, ticks move northward (Sweden), tides rise, tomatoes rot, tornado outbreak, tourism increase, trade barriers, trade winds weakened, traffic jams, transportation threatened, tree foliage increase (UK), tree growth slowed,, trees could return to Antarctic, trees in trouble, trees less colourful, trees more colourful, trees lush, tropics expansion, tropopause raised, truffle shortage, turtles crash, turtles lay earlier, UK coastal impact, UK Katrina, Vampire moths, Venice flooded, volcanic eruptions, walrus pups orphaned, walrus stampede, war, wars over water, wars sparked, wars threaten billions, wasps, water bills double, water supply unreliability, water scarcity (20% of increase), water stress, weather out of its mind, weather patterns awry, weeds, Western aid cancelled out, West Nile fever, whales move north, whales wiped out, wheat yields crushed in Australia, wildfires, wind shift, wind reduced, wine - harm to Australian industry, wine industry damage (California), wine industry disaster (US), wine - more English, wine - England too hot, wine -German boon, wine - no more French , wine passé (Napa), wine stronger, winters in Britain colder, winter in Britain dead, witchcraft executions, wolves eat more moose, wolves eat less, workers laid off, World at war, World bankruptcy, World in crisis, World in flames, Yellow fever.

To which I respond:

Just imagine that I pasted wiki:[wiki]Scientific opinion on climate change[/wiki] in here.

 

[skadistic]

Any one one here that would like to have a discussion? The discussion by the way is not about how I post but the environment. It seems to hard for some people to stay on track and need to divert the discussion from the uncomfortable direction of how global warming is a bunch of crap and onto how some posters post.

Any one there who will debate the facts and not make personal attacks or attack the source or anything but the facts?

 

[Mathilda]

Moderator Action: Skad and Erik, lay off each other.
Please read the forum rules: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=422889