Clayton2006
Chieftain
Just an idea but is there any youngish looking units you could use and call them YOBS, i know the british media calls us bad names but i think for once we could prove ourself to be worthy in this scenario!
Escape From Zombie Island 0: The Prequel
- Thread starter odintheking
- Start date
I'd like to help. I can exploit game mechanics(i.e. fooling the game engine to get desired effects like the teleporting mech in EFZI2), do the entirely non-artistic side of making units, make maps, and help with ideas.
EDIT:I can also write civilopedia entries. Basically, I can do anything that doesn't require modeling skills.
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
I'm sure you can make some 'pedia entries- there'll be lots of those!
So, I've been thinking about this scenario today, and I think I'm going to try to tackle the "big question" which has always haunted me when making/playing EFZI scenarios for Civ3-
Basically, the background to the question was that, in zombie films, the survivors generally have to hop from location to location, usually completely abandoning the locale from which they came, which goes against the Civ3 principle of more cities=better and the more of your cities=less production from your enemy, and there is no real balance on the other side (i.e. why you should just pack your things and run). There are also logistical concerns (for example, if you remove all your units from location x in order to move into occupied location y, then there is no guarantee that you'll be able to take location y.
I attempted to ask this question in my thread on Nomads sometime last year, as they essentially derive off of the same principle. So the question is this:
What could motivate a human player to "city hop" in such a scenario, rather than have some massive sprawling empire?
Here are some solutions which I may (undecided, needs Odin's consent) try to implement:
1. Survival government
I think the first step is to tinker with the unit support costs within the survival government. Instead of unit support starting out with a flat out rate of "zero", and increasing per settlement, it should start mildly high (i.e. enough to cover all the initial units, plus a few more builds) and decrease for every city captured (to be balanced enough so that the crippling effect roughly equals the production values of the city to the controller, and the production taken away from the AI). Additional unit support costs would also be high. The negative value of each city would not be as powerful for the "unique" faction governments (so, a determined survivor party would be able to hold onto more buildings than if they were just out for their survival, and martial law could actually have no positive or negative unit support problems for city size), and of course the zombies would still be have the "normal" method (so, the more they take, the more they can support).
I use this method frequently in my scenarios (I was testing it for Colonial rule in my Cold War African scenario last night, to good effect), and from what I gather, it can be quite effective.
2. "Human Nature" improvement
Essentially in zombie (as well as most horror movies), the band of survivors find themselves in a position where their human nature causes a rupture in the group, with one side going one way, and another the other, and with the aims of the two conflicting enough to usually spell disaster for both sides of the argument. Naturally, of course, the larger the amount of "cells" of survivors stranded throughout the city, the more likely such human nature is going to intervene. Thus I propose an improvement, stationed in each building, which decreases the happiness of every other building by ~one (balanced to be manageable with the starting # of buildings), and also containing the "meltdown" flag, so that the disastrous consequences can be unleashed. This improvement will, of course, go obsolete with the Zombie tech, so they don't have to worry about it, and later on the "faction-specific" governments will be able to build unique improvements which help to counter some of this unhappiness
The effects should (hypothetically) be twofold. First, for each building you take, your people will become ever more frustrated, possibly even shutting down production. This leads on to the second effect, which is the "meltdowns" will render most production useless, and thus even if the zombies did take over the city, they would take a while to get anything out of it in such an occurrence. This could cause as a trigger telling the human player not to bother worrying about that city, due to general worthlessness it has.
This is another adaptation from my African Cold War scenario, although reversed (in that scenario, the effects alter only that city, and the "helping" improvement renders itself obsolete in time)
Anyone got any other ideas on how this could work?
So, I've been thinking about this scenario today, and I think I'm going to try to tackle the "big question" which has always haunted me when making/playing EFZI scenarios for Civ3-
Basically, the background to the question was that, in zombie films, the survivors generally have to hop from location to location, usually completely abandoning the locale from which they came, which goes against the Civ3 principle of more cities=better and the more of your cities=less production from your enemy, and there is no real balance on the other side (i.e. why you should just pack your things and run). There are also logistical concerns (for example, if you remove all your units from location x in order to move into occupied location y, then there is no guarantee that you'll be able to take location y.
I attempted to ask this question in my thread on Nomads sometime last year, as they essentially derive off of the same principle. So the question is this:
What could motivate a human player to "city hop" in such a scenario, rather than have some massive sprawling empire?
Here are some solutions which I may (undecided, needs Odin's consent) try to implement:
1. Survival government
I think the first step is to tinker with the unit support costs within the survival government. Instead of unit support starting out with a flat out rate of "zero", and increasing per settlement, it should start mildly high (i.e. enough to cover all the initial units, plus a few more builds) and decrease for every city captured (to be balanced enough so that the crippling effect roughly equals the production values of the city to the controller, and the production taken away from the AI). Additional unit support costs would also be high. The negative value of each city would not be as powerful for the "unique" faction governments (so, a determined survivor party would be able to hold onto more buildings than if they were just out for their survival, and martial law could actually have no positive or negative unit support problems for city size), and of course the zombies would still be have the "normal" method (so, the more they take, the more they can support).
I use this method frequently in my scenarios (I was testing it for Colonial rule in my Cold War African scenario last night, to good effect), and from what I gather, it can be quite effective.
2. "Human Nature" improvement
Essentially in zombie (as well as most horror movies), the band of survivors find themselves in a position where their human nature causes a rupture in the group, with one side going one way, and another the other, and with the aims of the two conflicting enough to usually spell disaster for both sides of the argument. Naturally, of course, the larger the amount of "cells" of survivors stranded throughout the city, the more likely such human nature is going to intervene. Thus I propose an improvement, stationed in each building, which decreases the happiness of every other building by ~one (balanced to be manageable with the starting # of buildings), and also containing the "meltdown" flag, so that the disastrous consequences can be unleashed. This improvement will, of course, go obsolete with the Zombie tech, so they don't have to worry about it, and later on the "faction-specific" governments will be able to build unique improvements which help to counter some of this unhappiness
The effects should (hypothetically) be twofold. First, for each building you take, your people will become ever more frustrated, possibly even shutting down production. This leads on to the second effect, which is the "meltdowns" will render most production useless, and thus even if the zombies did take over the city, they would take a while to get anything out of it in such an occurrence. This could cause as a trigger telling the human player not to bother worrying about that city, due to general worthlessness it has.
This is another adaptation from my African Cold War scenario, although reversed (in that scenario, the effects alter only that city, and the "helping" improvement renders itself obsolete in time)
Anyone got any other ideas on how this could work?
Good Ideas Virote...I have a question: How would you prevent the "Human Improvement" that causes the Unhappiness in each Building from being Destroyed by Bombardment or Tossed Out?
One way to make this work is IF the "Human Improvement" is also flagged to allow a population increase. Then it will not be destroyed or tossed out.
...Any Ideas of Other Ways to maintain the "Improvement"?
Would such an "Improvement" cause more buildings to be Disbanded or Razed by both the AI and Player?
One way to make this work is IF the "Human Improvement" is also flagged to allow a population increase. Then it will not be destroyed or tossed out.
...Any Ideas of Other Ways to maintain the "Improvement"?
Would such an "Improvement" cause more buildings to be Disbanded or Razed by both the AI and Player?
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
I think that's the only way; that's the conclusion we came up with in the other thread...
I'm not sure... what would happen if we were to create "blank" spaces on the lines where these two were supposed to go in labels.txt and script.txt? In theory, there should be nowhere to click to raze...
I don't think it will affect the AI at all, though. I assume they'd be pretty oblivious. (Which is OK- they're in the game to die gruesome deaths, anyway
)I think it would work well if the Buildings (Cities) are also given "Wonders" and or Improvements that are beneficial in other ways but not so beneficial as to cause a player to avoid the "City Hop" Game Play you want.
...Regardless of how it is acomplished, it would be necessary to prevent a City or Building as well as the "Human Improvement" from being Razed or destroyed by Players you want to "City Hop" in the Scenario.
...Regardless of how it is acomplished, it would be necessary to prevent a City or Building as well as the "Human Improvement" from being Razed or destroyed by Players you want to "City Hop" in the Scenario.
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
I think wonders are a must, otherwise it would just turn into a large dash for the airport! Also, it's nice to play a game where every building has its own special appeal, and the player should feel strained as to weather or not they want to risk certain wonders (such as espionage, cheaper upgrades, etc.) at the expense of crushing their finances and production
Spacer One
Avatar subject to change
There should also be things that are "out of the way" from the main objective. That will give players who have played the scenario several times (In my case EFZI2) more options than just "completion"...
It is because EFZI2 has multiple things to acquire (The Dalek, Mr.T, the Island, etc...) that it retains re-playability...I have mastered the objective of getting to the airport and off the island, and in 8 of 10 attempt I can do it in a boring amount of turns(Even less if Heroes are generated above averagely) ...So now Im trying to conquer the WHOLE island (It is not easy, at least for me...Im not one of you Deity players)...Ive done it a few times, and when I can do it everytime, I will quit playing the scenario(Or edit the zombies to be tougher)...by then I hope yours is done cause I love the concept(recreate Civ from the ground up!!...this is the only Scenario Ive seen that changes the whole concept of Civ)...anyway...Im just being long winded and agreeing with Vuldacon...key locations that arent on the "path" to the goal are a must...
It is because EFZI2 has multiple things to acquire (The Dalek, Mr.T, the Island, etc...) that it retains re-playability...I have mastered the objective of getting to the airport and off the island, and in 8 of 10 attempt I can do it in a boring amount of turns(Even less if Heroes are generated above averagely) ...So now Im trying to conquer the WHOLE island (It is not easy, at least for me...Im not one of you Deity players)...Ive done it a few times, and when I can do it everytime, I will quit playing the scenario(Or edit the zombies to be tougher)...by then I hope yours is done cause I love the concept(recreate Civ from the ground up!!...this is the only Scenario Ive seen that changes the whole concept of Civ)...anyway...Im just being long winded and agreeing with Vuldacon...key locations that arent on the "path" to the goal are a must...
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
Updated Zombie tree, and added Survivor tree (in post 139)
Some notes:
The Zombies must research 17 techs, the humans 19. However, all Zombie techs have a cost of "0", allowing for them to be researched at 13 turns no matter what, whereas the human techs are going to be more expensive (so, in most games, you probably wouldn't research all the techs, but you'd try to get most of them done...)
Some notes:
The Zombies must research 17 techs, the humans 19. However, all Zombie techs have a cost of "0", allowing for them to be researched at 13 turns no matter what, whereas the human techs are going to be more expensive (so, in most games, you probably wouldn't research all the techs, but you'd try to get most of them done...)
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
Over the past few weeks, I've actually been working on this mod a fair bit. The Survivors are pretty much complete (although they need more naval units to help them cross the river). The Company are also pretty much complete (they just need their SS parts to be added*). That just leaves the three factions left.
I've added the Authorities tech tree to the post on the previous page. Here it is here, too:
*I'm thinking of increasing the amount of SS parts required by the company to 15 or 20 - this would include all 10 of their starting cities, thus forcing them into having to try to protect their meager possessions, else having to face coming back to them later - and who knows what the Zombies will have there then
I've added the Authorities tech tree to the post on the previous page. Here it is here, too:
*I'm thinking of increasing the amount of SS parts required by the company to 15 or 20 - this would include all 10 of their starting cities, thus forcing them into having to try to protect their meager possessions, else having to face coming back to them later - and who knows what the Zombies will have there then
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
So, to get your mouths watering a little 
mischief, here's a report on how my current Survivors game is going (Odin, you'll probably want to read this too, as it gives a couple of surprises since the last upload 
)
Right. First and foremost, it started quite bad. In the first few turns, I took the local TV station. However, this was at the cost of "Graham's House", one of my starting cities! I decided to let it go, however, as opposed to fighting to take it back. The Zombies start with the Morgue on the southern part of the island, and the Graveyard at the top. Both do the same thing, i.e. produce Graveyard Swarms every second turn, and allow them to deploy pretty much anywhere on the map! This is how they were able to take Graham's House so early.
Next, I turned my attentions to the Millenium Tower, which is, IMO, far too close to the school. I accidently destroyed the wonder within through bombardment, but that doesn't matter; I wanted to torch the darned building, anyway! However, it takes longer than expected - many of my heroes are held up in the TV station! That Graveyard has got to go, but there's no way in my current state I can take it! Thus, I decided that it would probably be best to head off down to the Fishery, as it houses a hero unit, which I'll be able to upgrade at some point.
Economically, I'm not doing too good; techs are stumbling on at one every 20 turns (and I'm only researching tech #2!). Luxuries are raised a considerable bit, but there have still been many "disasters" (which is the equivalent of the usual nuclear meltdown).
Whilst my Heroes were en route to the Fishery, my Hot Air Balloon found this wall of zombies heading past the Docks:
Back to the situation at hand, the Fishery was an easy take, and by Day 3, it was mine. I decided to head off down the road to secure my Western Border (well, as best it can be secured with a wrapped map!). Meanwhile, my Balloon stumbled upon this awful discovery; the zombies had taken the Museum:
This is bad, as the Museum becomes essentially a second Test Lab for them! Needless to say, I'm afraid, very afraid!
By the looks of things, Sam's Fish Stall could be the next place to go:
On the other hand, the Dojo looks like it's got a tough time ahead from the north:
Back to the action at hand, most of my heroes were now heading off to the "Blow The Man Down", which is the last building for a while on the Western border, and so should be easy to fortify... However, the Zombies now start throwing everything they can at me! They're paradroping their graveyard swarms. They're actually holding up a good amphibious operation up the river! A large detachment of heroes is needed to counter their offensive! Meanwhile, at the BtMD, I've managed to kill one of the Sated Alpha zombies, but the silly Company sent one of their dogs to attack a Sated Alpha, which promptly turned the dog into another Alpha! Now my work there has been undone!
And then I find this:
As you see, the Zombies have just landed an Alpha Zombie on my shores... Or so I thought:
It was actually one of Horus' guards from the Museum!
Now, I'm off to get back in to the thick of it!
mischief, here's a report on how my current Survivors game is going (Odin, you'll probably want to read this too, as it gives a couple of surprises since the last upload )Right. First and foremost, it started quite bad. In the first few turns, I took the local TV station. However, this was at the cost of "Graham's House", one of my starting cities! I decided to let it go, however, as opposed to fighting to take it back. The Zombies start with the Morgue on the southern part of the island, and the Graveyard at the top. Both do the same thing, i.e. produce Graveyard Swarms every second turn, and allow them to deploy pretty much anywhere on the map! This is how they were able to take Graham's House so early.
Next, I turned my attentions to the Millenium Tower, which is, IMO, far too close to the school
. I accidently destroyed the wonder within through bombardment, but that doesn't matter; I wanted to torch the darned building, anyway! However, it takes longer than expected - many of my heroes are held up in the TV station! That Graveyard has got to go, but there's no way in my current state I can take it! Thus, I decided that it would probably be best to head off down to the Fishery, as it houses a hero unit, which I'll be able to upgrade at some point. Economically, I'm not doing too good; techs are stumbling on at one every 20 turns (and I'm only researching tech #2!). Luxuries are raised a considerable bit, but there have still been many "disasters" (which is the equivalent of the usual nuclear meltdown).
Whilst my Heroes were en route to the Fishery, my Hot Air Balloon found this wall of zombies heading past the Docks:
Back to the situation at hand, the Fishery was an easy take, and by Day 3, it was mine. I decided to head off down the road to secure my Western Border (well, as best it can be secured with a wrapped map!). Meanwhile, my Balloon stumbled upon this awful discovery; the zombies had taken the Museum:
This is bad, as the Museum becomes essentially a second Test Lab for them! Needless to say, I'm afraid, very afraid!
By the looks of things, Sam's Fish Stall could be the next place to go:
On the other hand, the Dojo looks like it's got a tough time ahead from the north:
Back to the action at hand, most of my heroes were now heading off to the "Blow The Man Down", which is the last building for a while on the Western border, and so should be easy to fortify... However, the Zombies now start throwing everything they can at me! They're paradroping their graveyard swarms. They're actually holding up a good amphibious operation up the river! A large detachment of heroes is needed to counter their offensive! Meanwhile, at the BtMD, I've managed to kill one of the Sated Alpha zombies, but the silly Company sent one of their dogs to attack a Sated Alpha, which promptly turned the dog into another Alpha! Now my work there has been undone!
And then I find this:
As you see, the Zombies have just landed an Alpha Zombie on my shores... Or so I thought:
It was actually one of Horus' guards from the Museum!
Now, I'm off to get back in to the thick of it!
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
To give it the sort of feeling that you're trying to run away, but can't
Tank_Guy#3
Lion of Lehistan
Realism effect, as those zombies just seem to be everywhere.
General 666
Culturebringer
Hi Virote!
Because I love Vuldacons scenario very much (I`m one of his betatesters) ,I can`t hardly wait for yours to be released. So please continue your work on these.
btw: Your screenies looks very interresting (cool!)!
Because I love Vuldacons scenario very much (I`m one of his betatesters) ,I can`t hardly wait for yours to be released. So please continue your work on these.
btw: Your screenies looks very interresting (cool!)!
Virote_Considon... Looks Like it is coming along very well 
... I think it is good you are using my same Graphics and units but as a Precursor to EFZI2, how are the different Buildings that are not in EFZI2 and the different Island itself explained?
Well...I have added more Buildings and more Land to the Final Version I have been working on as well, so I suppose we can just call the differences "Artistic Licence"
IF you desire to see any changes that will be in the Final Version, I continue to send King Arthur Updates as I complete them just so he has a Copy and I am sure he could send you files faster than I can...IF you just want Map Graphics or just some specific files, I could send you those if it will help in any way.
I understand the extreme amount of time and effort required to complete a game such as you guys are putting together here. If it will help your completion efforts, You are welcome to use My Work from EFZI2 The Remake and or the Final Version "EFZI2 Complete" that I am still finalizing.
This Precursor Game you guys are working on should be Fun
... I think it is good you are using my same Graphics and units but as a Precursor to EFZI2, how are the different Buildings that are not in EFZI2 and the different Island itself explained?
Well...I have added more Buildings and more Land to the Final Version I have been working on as well, so I suppose we can just call the differences "Artistic Licence"
IF you desire to see any changes that will be in the Final Version, I continue to send King Arthur Updates as I complete them just so he has a Copy and I am sure he could send you files faster than I can...IF you just want Map Graphics or just some specific files, I could send you those if it will help in any way.
I understand the extreme amount of time and effort required to complete a game such as you guys are putting together here. If it will help your completion efforts, You are welcome to use My Work from EFZI2 The Remake and or the Final Version "EFZI2 Complete" that I am still finalizing.
This Precursor Game you guys are working on should be Fun
Virote_Considon
The Great Dictator
The different "Island" (well, it's not technically an island, but a city in the middle of a very large desert) is explained as being the testing ground for a prototype of the virus. The area was chosen because 1) it is easy to contain, 2) the Company is pretty much allowed to be a law unto itself in the city, and 3) the city is in a constant state of civil war, so it's easier to cover up your tracks and claim that any zombie virus was as a result of secret biological warfare being waged by either the Authorities or the Rebels!Virote_Considon... Looks Like it is coming along very well
... I think it is good you are using my same Graphics and units but as a Precursor to EFZI2, how are the different Buildings that are not in EFZI2 and the different Island itself explained?
Well...I have added more Buildings and more Land to the Final Version I have been working on as well, so I suppose we can just call the differences "Artistic Licence"
IF you desire to see any changes that will be in the Final Version, I continue to send King Arthur Updates as I complete them just so he has a Copy and I am sure he could send you files faster than I can...IF you just want Map Graphics or just some specific files, I could send you those if it will help in any way.
I understand the extreme amount of time and effort required to complete a game such as you guys are putting together here. If it will help your completion efforts, You are welcome to use My Work from EFZI2 The Remake and or the Final Version "EFZI2 Complete" that I am still finalizing.
This Precursor Game you guys are working on should be Fun
Thanks again, Vuldacon!
Longus
Deep Blue
- Joined
- Jan 9, 2008
- Messages
- 260
This all looks really impressive It's ages since I've played a zombie game - must have been EFZI 1 - but seeing this is bringing back fond memories of evenings spent mutilating mutants in defence of Paradise Island. I'll have to keep an eye on this and check-out EFZI 2 while I'm at it. 
It's ages since I've played a zombie game - must have been EFZI 1 - but seeing this is bringing back fond memories of evenings spent mutilating mutants in defence of Paradise Island. I'll have to keep an eye on this and check-out EFZI 2 while I'm at it. 
Lord Malbeth
Emperor
This looks really cool! Might I suggest one tiny thing, maybe give the city a new name to make it as though it happened else where. In EFZI 2, the civilopedia states that Paradise City was pretty much always awesome to live in with no bad things happening. This prequel could mess with it a little. Plus, with a different city, you can have different people, locations, and a new map and stuff. Looks really great, better then anything I could do! Keep it up, and I can't wait to play it.
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