Eurocentrism

[dacubz145]

England should control it

That doesnt make any sence? They didnt control it untill 1814. So why would i inaccuratly give it to them?

 

[aob86]

England should control it

GB didnt control malta until 1800, took it from france who invaded malta in 1798

while i can see why dacubz145 wants to add it but i agree with you that its not worth adding as an civ, i would add it to minor nations or give it to Holy roman empire if need be but knowing dacubz145 like i do he will add it and im guessing the map is big enough for lots of civs anyway

 

[aob86]

that doesnt make any sence? They didnt control it untill 1814. So why would i inaccuratly give it to them?

1800

general claude-henri belgrand de vaubois surrendered his french forces in 1800. Maltese leaders presented the island to sir alexander ball, asking that the island become a british dominion. The maltese people created a declaration of rights in which they agreed to come "under the protection and sovereignty of the king of the free people, his majesty the king of the united kingdom of great britain and ireland". The declaration also stated that "his majesty has no right to cede these islands to any power...if he chooses to withdraw his protection, and abandon his sovereignty, the right of electing another sovereign, or of the governing of these islands, belongs to us, the inhabitants and aborigines alone, and without control.

 

[Civciv5]

The kings of England ruled Ireland as their king from 1542 to 1801 in a sort of personal union.
So Ireland should be territory of England or a vassal of England.

i can see why he wants to add it but i agree with you that its not worth adding as an civ, i would add it to minor nations or give it to Holy roman empire if need be.

IF Malta controls an area large enough (at least larger then an one-tile island)to make it a nation that is playable,then it should be a playable civ.
If it's not then it should be a non-playable civ or an independent nation or territory of another nation.

 

[dacubz145]

The kings of England ruled Ireland as their king from 1542 to 1801 in a sort of personal union.
So Ireland should be territory of England or a vassal of England.

IF Malta controls an area large enough (at least larger then an one-tile island)to make it a nation that is playable,then it should be a playable civ.
If it's not then it should be a non-playable civ or an independent nation or territory of another nation.

I dont see the difference between the playable and non-playable civ

If you dont want it as a playable civ and it is one...do not play it. Gameplay does not change just dont pick the civ

And im not going to give it to a nation it didnt belong to

 

[dacubz145]

GB didnt control malta until 1800, took it from france who invaded malta in 1798

while i can see why dacubz145 wants to add it but i agree with you that its not worth adding as an civ, i would add it to minor nations or give it to Holy roman empire if need be but knowing dacubz145 like i do he will add it and im guessing the map is big enough for lots of civs anyway

I only have like 30 some civs, and much smaller then GEM so I can really add as many civs as i want and it won't make a difference. Yes it will be in there, i cant just leave it out. Putting it in as a civ is the most accurate thing to do. It is not like andorra where if you leav eit out, france or spain just has another square. If you leave an island civ out the island is empty, its different

 

[dacubz145]

1800

In 1814, as part of the Treaty of Paris, Malta officially became a part of the British Empire and was used as a shipping way-station and fleet headquarters
^^Ill take your word over wikipedias though

 

[wolfman1234]

Sure it wastn spanish at that time, or it was given to the Knights before?

There are more important civs, like Firenze, Siena, perhaps some german minors.

But Malta could have some sea wonder if you have one, ship building or something like that.

Edit: Oh, i was wrong, it was given to the Knights in 1530, after they lose Rhodes. Then, Malta belongs to the Knights of St. John, The Hospital order.

Their main purpose was fighting the Otoman Pirates.

 

[dacubz145]

Sure it wastn spansih at that time, or it was given to the Knights before?

There are more important civs, like Firenze, Siena, perhaps some german minors.

But Malta could have some sea wonder if you have one, ship building or something like that.

Florence (firenze) was the Grand Duchy of Tuscany. The Duchy of Florence ended in 1569. Siena was also in Tuscany

Which other german minors do you suggest? Because I mean a lot of the wars was with the HRE and I can't make the HRE to week other wise i should just remove it completely

 

[aob86]

In 1814, as part of the Treaty of Paris, Malta officially became a part of the British Empire and was used as a shipping way-station and fleet headquarters
^^Ill take your word over wikipedias though

as with all wars there usualy a difference between when someone takes control of land and when theres a treaty that confirmed its now there land.

if we went by treaties then your independence day should be 3 september, when the treaty of paris was signed

 

[wolfman1234]

Florence (firenze) was the Grand Duchy of Tuscany. The Duchy of Florence ended in 1569. Siena was also in Tuscany

Which other german minors do you suggest? Because I mean a lot of the wars was with the HRE and I can't make the HRE to week other wise i should just remove it completely

So you plan to make a HRE civ with all the HRE lands that not belongs to a major nations (Austria, Spain, Netherland, North of Italy, and so), arent you? In that case its fine.

 

[dacubz145]

as with all wars there usualy a difference between when someone takes control of land and when theres a treaty that confirmed its now there land.

if we went by treaties then your independence day should be 3 september, when the treaty of paris was signed

Of course, semptember 3 is a huge celebration in america
But a huge difference between several months and 14 years

So you plan to make a HRE civ with all the HRE lands that not belongs to a major nations (Austria, Spain, Netherland, North of Italy, and so), arent you? In that case its fine.

That is what i plan on doing. I will probably create a list of events that will be scripted in, tomorrow or the next day, and would appreciate it if you guys can suggest things for it

 

[aob86]

Of course, semptember 3 is a huge celebration in america
But a huge difference between several months and 14 years

French rule in Malta lasted only two years. The Maltese rebelled within three months of their arrival, besieging them in Valletta, from where, with the help of the British, they were finally ousted in 1800. The British occupied the island and for the next fifteen years the fate of Malta was undecided. The Maltese did not want the knights back and Britain was quite undecided as to whether it wanted to stay in Malta, but equally Britain did not want either the French or the Russians, who had their eyes on Malta for quite a while, to occupy the islands. The Maltese finally made up their mind and asked the British to stay. In the treaty of Paris, the occupation of Malta by the British was finally recognised. This was legalised in 1815 at the Congress of Vienna.

well that is a very large gap true, as i said theres often a big gap between taking over an area and the end of the war and signing of a treaty and because the Napoleonic Wars lasted for over 13 years and ended in 1815 so there wasnt a treaty until then lol.

 

[dacubz145]

Switzerland is in

Spoiler :

LH: Dufour
UU1: Warrior of the alps - axeman (+25% hill combat)
UU2: Swiss Guard - Pikmean (7 combat)
UB: League of Nations (+150% culture)
Think the culture is to OP? Think i should change it to 125?

Also fixed xml error i totally forgot about. Update probably tomorrow

 

[wolfman1234]

Of course, semptember 3 is a huge celebration in america
But a huge difference between several months and 14 years


That is what i plan on doing. I will probably create a list of events that will be scripted in, tomorrow or the next day, and would appreciate it if you guys can suggest things for it

A fun but a bit biased page about the cronology and main chars:

http://www.saburchill.com/history/events/016f.html

and another with some key info:

http://www.thecaveonline.com/APEH/thirtyyearswar.html

 

[dacubz145]

Thanks for the links, they were pretty helpful
so i will write later today all the events i think should be the scripte in the 17th century scneario. Tell me what you think i should change/add/remove. I am pretty confident i can script it well enough so that if i added ai autoplay, you could autoplay to any war, including thrity years war, and it would be just like starting a scenario then.

Do nyou have any articles like that about the 80 years war? Wikipedias article on it is way to long and unorganized i feel another would be better to read on what happened in that war in the 17th century

 

[wolfman1234]

Sorry, i usually read in spanish, but i will search a bit for a compact article in english. Do you plan to make a 80 years war scenario too?

 

[dacubz145]

Sorry, i usually read in spanish, but i will search a bit for a compact article in english. Do you plan to make a 80 years war scenario too?

No, atelast not in the near future

What i plan on doing is a 17th century scenario. It starts in 1600 and ends in 1700. The whole thing will be scripted going through tons of wars, the main one being thirty years war. The 80 years war was like half way through in 1600 so I need some information on it. After i am done doing 1600 i plan on doing one just on thirty years war

 

[wolfman1234]

Here you have a not too complete chronology:

http://www.balagan.org.uk/war/eighty-years-war/timeline.htm

And here a timeline of the 17th century wars, you can go to other articles from here:

http://militaryhistory.about.com/od/timeline/a/17th18thcen.htm


When you have the scenario ready tell me and i will try some nations. Do you plan to add some Wonders from that time, i mean, things like New World Trade, or perhaps wonders that reprent colonies in America, like RFC-Europe does. Arsenal of Venetia, some Otoman wonders, english ones, spanish...

Oh, i have seen you dont have Venetia civ, this is a quite important civ yet in C. XVII, Lepanto was only 30 years before. Perhpas you could use Italy civ for Venetia and other italian minors, Savoy, Genoa...

 

[dacubz145]

Swiss was most important to me to add in..it is in. Next will be Venice and Genoa the only problem is I need to come up with UUs and UBs.
Venetian Arsenal is already a wonder. Any suggestion for others? I dont want to do colonies and all that because i want the mod to focus on just europe. Plus adventually i am going to expand this into a whole seperate mod so it just focusses on colonization/imperialism.

Thanks for the articles ill check them out