Evaluating wonders.

[antimony]

The Statue of Zeus is not even the most annoying wonder an enemy AI can have, I think that would be the Apostolic Palace. But just the like the AP (or Chichen Itza) you may want to try taking that city from the opponent sooner than later if logistically feasible.

It's not a very expensive wonder if you have the resource, it's just that like @coanda said the effect is underwhelming especially on high difficulty level (and it might not be worth putting an effort to beat an AI to it). Building a wonder just so a potential enemy doesn't get it is not as strong as something that gives a big bonus to yourself.

 

[sampsa]

Well you still need to earn those peaces and I wouldn't say win with war weariness alone but every bit helps and it doesn't expire, so don't you think Zeus is worth building? At least if you got ivory?

I've built it only as a joke. If you have ivory, you can failgold it (in multiple cities probably) below deity.

Usually I don't have 3 monuments though (unless CHA).

 

[TruePurple]

cha? So you don't like Zeus? Anything you can contribute regarding that? What relevance to this is the difficulty level?

I often build monuments because they are a quick way of expanding city area. Why don't you build monuments?

 

[coanda]

The core issue is that monuments are not quick. Best-case, it's going to be something like ~4 turns after building the city to get the monument. Then another 10 turns after building the monument before you get the border pop. If the city urgently needs to work a tile in order to be useful, that delay is crippling; you need to just settle the city with the resource tile in the inner ring. So most cities don't end up with a priority on getting their second ring, because you settled them in spot where that second ring wasn't urgent. And if getting the culture isn't urgent, there's a lot of ways you can get 10 culture more cheaply if you're willing to wait - either as a side-benefit of something you were going to build anyways (e.g., if the city wants a library), or by waiting until the right tech / game situation (e.g., running an artist specialist for a few turns while in Caste System).

Which isn't to say you never build monuments; even assuming you aren't a Charismatic leader who wants the happiness, there will usually be at least one or two cities in spots where there are multiple tiles you really want them working by size 3 or 4 and no way to catch all of them in a single inner ring. Those cities want monuments, if you are early enough in the game that there are no cheaper options.

But it's a building you don't want to need, and every monument you can skip is two extra warriors, half an extra worker, about one extra chariot or axe, about a third of a new settler... these sort of savings add up.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

@TruePurple If you want, you can search or start a new thread on the relative merits of monuments.

Monuments are not completely horrible for culture victory. If I had ivory, then I would try to build the Statue of Zeus.

 

[civac]

Purely, as a denial build possibly but that really only matters when your foresee attacking the AI likely to build it. Otherwise, Statue of Zeus is a pure failgold regnerator.

Edit: I forgot. Statue of Zeus can be used as a bootleg culture bomb.

 

[TruePurple]

. Statue of Zeus can be used as a bootleg culture bomb.

Please explain.

 

[sampsa]

cha? So you don't like Zeus? Anything you can contribute regarding that? What relevance to this is the difficulty level?

I often build monuments because they are a quick way of expanding city area. Why don't you build monuments?

Charismatic. I don't like Zeus, just doesn't seem worth it and I'd rather have the failgold. On deity it's pretty hard to get it (failgold) even.

I think monuments are a trap, that 30 is a big sacrifice and i'd rather put it towards warriors/settlers/workers. You don't really need culture if you place your cities well.

 

[TruePurple]

I think monuments are a trap, that 30 is a big sacrifice and i'd rather put it towards warriors/settlers/workers. You don't really need culture if you place your cities well.

Please check out this thread. https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/whether-to-build-monuments.685686/

 

[civac]

Statue of Zeus grants 10 culture iirc and is cheap if you have elephants. It's very useful in a culture war.

 

[TruePurple]

Statue of Zeus grants 10 culture iirc and is cheap if you have elephants. It's very useful in a culture war.

Ah, you said "bomb", I thought that meant more to it than high culture for cost with ivy. (and if its cheap for culture given with ivy probably still worth it without ivy if for culture)

 

[lymond]

Well you still need to earn those peaces and I wouldn't say win with war weariness alone but every bit helps and it doesn't expire, so don't you think Zeus is worth building? At least if you got ivory?

Can be nice for some fail gold in that case. Ais usually build it fairly early. I usually capture it at some point. Except for specific goals like cultural victories, most wonders just are not worth building. And on highest levels AIs are gonna beat you to most of them. So kill them.

 

[TruePurple]

Aside from keeping the barbarians out so you can focus more, isn't GW great for getting more military GP?

 

[antimony]

Great Wall increases great general point generation within your borders. If you're in a position where you're mostly fighting opposing Civs within your borders, this means you're in a really difficult position in that game... (unless it's Always War in which case you're definitely fighting in your borders).

 

[TruePurple]

You could wait till the enemy comes to your borders before attacking some of them.

Does it count as within your borders if you attack inside your borders a enemy outside or visa versa for this effect?

 

[antimony]

Battle location is where the defending unit is located I think.

 

[sylvanllewelyn]

Henrik just made a good video on world wonders. I wish he discussed them alphabetically (ignore "The") for more entertainment value.

IMHO one disagreement

Spoiler :

Space Elevator. You don't research Robotics but you get it through The Internet. SE might not be strong per se but you better not let anybody else get it.

 

[Henrik75]

Yes, allow me to link this here; Should cover all civ 4 BTS wonders in somewhat reasonable depth. Feel free to disagree and adjust, everyone has their preferences and opinions. But here's my pov:

 

[sampsa]

I have a curveball. Most overrated wonder: GLib.

I'm not saying that it's bad at all, it's very decent because it's dirt cheap. It's just that the benefit is low, exactly because it's on the music path where the GA is the real prize. For a typical golden age based -strategy you certainly don't need GLib to get the necessary and after the GA it doesn't really matter if you have GLib or not. So where is the benefit actually? Maybe you get a half of extra GS, but does that make you win faster/better/more reliably? Usually, no.

 

[Henrik75]

I agree GLib is often overrated, I myself clearly put pyramids and GLH well above it, and put it the same as mausoleum (For deity anyway; I think Mausoleum/Taj is stronger for immortal and below). The nice thing about GLib is its a freebie for going the aesthetics trade bait into 1st to music for free GA as you said. Although, for its cheapness and what it gives, being able to synergize well with NE, and not going super damn early like the deity 600bc mausoleum sometimes, it's reliable and powerful in that sense. Personally I struggle with being too busy with several cities to sit there and run scientists for a long time to slowly grind out great people, and i'm not a fan of sitting in pacifism for half of the game (I won't deny it's good, it's just awkward for me and I get annoyed at unfinished granaries/libraries, or want to get my forges up with OR) - so I really gain a lot of value from those 2 scientists always being there pumping out dudes for me, plus the wonder GPP. and then once you get the NE up and start running dudes they come REAL fast and easy and effortlessly.