No, I heard that they were questionable because they weren't official and were ambiguous about their definitions. Do you have links to the official numbers?
Evil Atheist Thread
- Thread starter Love
- Start date
damn, unfortunately no. only links to it, from satanic sites of course.
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists#_note-6
but they do site their source. its taken from the 1997 federal bureau of prison statistics. i'm having a hard time finding the 1997 one online though. either way, the source comes from a government bureau, so it sounds valid to me.
http://freethoughtpedia.com/wiki/Percentage_of_atheists#_note-6
but they do site their source. its taken from the 1997 federal bureau of prison statistics. i'm having a hard time finding the 1997 one online though. either way, the source comes from a government bureau, so it sounds valid to me.
Let me know when you find the official statistics, then. Like I said, I had only heard that, I could be wrong.
GenMarshall
High Elven ISB Capt & Ghost Agent
One phrase that I will quote from MobBoss...
...LOLZ.
I whole heartedly agree with you Lover of Pugs
. It's thoes Militant Antitheist and Antireligious atheists who think they are vastly superior and have greater inteligence than theists.
One phrase that I will quote from MobBoss...I whole heartedly agree with you Lover of Pugs
...LOLZ.
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I wouldn't deny it. There are plenty of atheists who consider themselves, by definition, both more intelligent and more moral than theists. Of course, the same goes in the other direction, but that's not for this thread.
The prophecy is fulfilled and the evil atheist is the one that gets punished for the moral depravity.One phrase that I will quote from MobBoss...
...LOLZ.
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I don't know if I believe the statistic, either. Though I can't really see a way to get a proper statistic from that population, either.
It would be a fun stat to wave around, but my feeling is that there's a higher proportion of faithful in prison because "finding faith" is perceived as a way of receiving parole more easily. So prisoners become more faithful
dutchking
Deity
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- Messages
- 3,317
I don't find atheism or any other belief of a religion or people disturbing. Call me crazy but I don't see anything wrong with people practicing their own beliefs. If atheism is a belief. I myself am not sure whether or not I'm an atheist, nor do I know if I will become an atheist. Religion is a confusing concept for me to digest. I think I'm better off right now not associated with any beliefs.
Julian Delphiki
Anton's key
Cu Chulainn
The Unoriginal
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Socialism is a religion.
It's a political ideology
CartesianFart
Deity
What is belief? I say it is an impulse to accept the conclusion by the habits of your own mind.
"The truth is not afraid of attacks by words. If one is uncomfortable and awkward when attacked as such, then maybe one do not yet have the truth but desperately hope to have the truth." ~ Xyan
CartesianFart
Deity
aneeshm
Deity
Don't forget, we also sacrifice the aborted to harvest stem cells, so that Dawkins - our newest and greatest Prophet - may live forever.
The stem cells promise is just a myth.
We just want to kill babies.
We just want to kill babies.
DJ Bonebraker
a.k.a Laura
Okay, sorry about the delay, but here's what I've come up with on the subject of Evil, and how it relates to my faith in God and all that.... I'll deal with atheism itself and the "Science vs. Religion" myth in a later installment...
The reall issue here is NOT religion, but extremism and demogoguery… Fishjie put his thumb on one of the central points of this problem with his description of Mao as “setting up his own cult with him as the center” This is what is known in social psychology as a Personality Cult or The Cult of Personality (I’ll tell you 1 and 1 is 3….), and this, in conjunction with what is known as The Rationalization Trap has been used by various people in power, whether they be religious, non-religious or anti-religious. The Rationalization Trap basically boils down to three simple phrases that I firmly believe are where all human evil comes from and are the flag-stones that pave the highway to Hell.
The first of these simple phrases is this: “The End Justifies The Means.” These 5 words have been used to justify more atrocities throughout history than any other rationalization… Stalin felt that his end (the global triumph of atheism and communism) justified his means of attaining that end (death squads, gulags, etc). Even those “holy” people who abused their religion were using their end to justify the means (Hello Jihad and the Crusades!), but in the case of the so-called “Chrisians” who called for acts of vilonce in God’s name, they were going directly against the teachings of Christ Himself, and were guilty of many of the same things He accused the Pharisees and Saducees of doing! Jesus Himself said, [color=”Red”]”You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your friend, hate your enemies.’ But now I tell you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may become the children of your Father in heaven. For He makes His sun to shine on bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do good and to those who do evil. Why should God reward you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that! And if you speak only to you rfriends, have you done anything out of the ordinary? Even the pagans do that! You must be perfect—just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:43-48, Good News Translation). As you can see, Jesus is actually exhorting his followers to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the popes and such who called for the crusades were calling for… Needless to say that Jesus left a really tough act to follow, but that is no excuse for trying, and that all Christians, including myself, must remember to admit when we’ve done wrong and seek forgiveness from those who we’ve wronged as well as God.
The second phrase of rationalization, which is often paired with the first is, “They Got What They Deserved” This is what Hitler used to rationalie his attempted extermination of the Jews…. The Jews were running the country into ground with their usury, so they got what they deserved when he unleased his “final solution” on them. Similarly, Ghenghis Khan, in his bid to take over the world back in the 13th century, felt that his goal justified whatever means he used to attain it, including murdering over 35 MILLION Chinese peasants because China tried to back out of a deal they made with him (hey, they got what they deserved for backing out on them.)
The third phrase, which is not often associated with atrocities, never the less, is often used by individuals to excuse their own evil, and that one is “It’s not really my fault.” Adam and Eve used this excuse in the garden… Adam’s line basically was, “Hey, it’s not my fault I disobeyed you Lord, it was that WOMAN that YOU gave me,” and Eve’s line was, “It’s not my fault, Lord, It was the DEVIL that made me do it.” Understandably, the Lord was not particularly pleased, just like any parent who had caught their kids in the act of doing something wrong, only to have the kids try to BS their way out of it. This is the same rationalization that alcoholics, drug-addicts and smokers use for continuing their habits despite the fact that they know that what they’re doing is wrong: “I’ve tried, but I just can’t help it.”
Here’s a few more examples of how these three basic rationalizations serve as the gateway for evil to come into this world:
I, myself, when I was younger and tormented constantly (getting rocks thrown at me was an almost daily occurrence) on the schoolyard because not only was I different than many of the kids, and one of the poorest in the whole school (meaning that my parents couldn’t afford any of the “cool” toys or brands of clothing), I came to see commercialism and materialism as what was wrong with the world, and I believed that if I were to kill all the rich people and give their money to the poor so that everyone was equal, then all problems would be solved…. Funny thing was, I’d never even heard of Marx back then, because we were still in the Cold War when I was in elementary school, and Communism was, to most local people, “the devil,” and teaching of any of its tenants or philosophies was considered to be subversive and unpatriotic. If I were to have gone through with my glorious “the blood of the Burgeous pigs will water our agarian utopia” plan, I’d have gone down in history as one of the most evil people on the face of the world. However, in my mind, the end (elimination of poverty and true equality) justified the means (killing the rich people, who would’ve got what they deserved). Thankfully, I realized the errors of my thinking! I also would do things (without thinking about it or even realizing it half the time) that would hurt other people, like walking over top of other kids’ projects in Art class. I could take the easy way out and say that I “couldn’t help it” because of my ADD, but that would be falling into rationalization trap #3, besides which nobody would buy that one anyways…..
Basically, I’ve come to realize that all people, even those mean and spitefull kids that mercilessly tormented me throughout my school years, are no less or more evil than myself, and all the suffering in the world is the result of free will… Anywhere you find any kind of differences between people, their social status, or their ideologies, you’ll find conflict, greed, suffering and war: The only way to put an end to evil and suffering would be to put cybernetic implants in everyone’s brains that would keep them from doing anything to hurt themselves or anyone else… But then we wouldn’t really be human anymore, we’d merely be organic robots, and what, then would be the point in living? My father put it best when he once said, “The only time there will be no more greed, war or oppression is when there is only 1 person left alive on the earth.” I’ve seen where everyone, myself included, is so quick to call for justice to be served when others break the law, or do something to hurt someone else, yet when they do such things, they always have a million reasons and excuses as to why they are justified in doing just that thing!
I believe the solution to this problem is Jesus of Nazareth, and the sacrifice He made on the cross… As world-reknowned Christian Apologist Ravi Zacharias put it, “Only on the cross of Jesus Christ do love, justice, evil and forgiveness converge. Evil, in the heart of man, shown in the crucifixion; love, in the heart of God who gave his Son; forgiveness, because of the grace of Christ; and justice, because of the law of God revealed. That is at the heart of the Christian story. God has done something about evil.” That revelation to me of a God who loved even someone like me enough to take all my sins and evil on his back and suffer and die (in one of the worst ways imaginiable) is what led me to Christ.
In conclusion, evil and the justification thereof is not a result of religion or the lack thereof, but our own evil, conniving nature, the only antidote for which is love, and God Himself is the embodiment of the ultimate love. Furthermore, we must all be on the guard against demagogues and those who would use virtues as an excuse to commit atrocity... As a wise man once said, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
Demagogues and the Rationalization Trap
I know that many here blame religion and its followers on all the evils of this world and say that atheism is the ultimate end-all answer to eliminate war and suffering. The problem is that this goes against all evidence: The firing squads Stalin sent to liquidate the Buddhist monks of Mongolia gained at least some of their fanaticism and hatred of religion from those who told them that religion is the cause of fanaticism and hatred.
The reall issue here is NOT religion, but extremism and demogoguery… Fishjie put his thumb on one of the central points of this problem with his description of Mao as “setting up his own cult with him as the center” This is what is known in social psychology as a Personality Cult or The Cult of Personality (I’ll tell you 1 and 1 is 3….), and this, in conjunction with what is known as The Rationalization Trap has been used by various people in power, whether they be religious, non-religious or anti-religious. The Rationalization Trap basically boils down to three simple phrases that I firmly believe are where all human evil comes from and are the flag-stones that pave the highway to Hell.
The first of these simple phrases is this: “The End Justifies The Means.” These 5 words have been used to justify more atrocities throughout history than any other rationalization… Stalin felt that his end (the global triumph of atheism and communism) justified his means of attaining that end (death squads, gulags, etc). Even those “holy” people who abused their religion were using their end to justify the means (Hello Jihad and the Crusades!), but in the case of the so-called “Chrisians” who called for acts of vilonce in God’s name, they were going directly against the teachings of Christ Himself, and were guilty of many of the same things He accused the Pharisees and Saducees of doing! Jesus Himself said, [color=”Red”]”You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your friend, hate your enemies.’ But now I tell you: love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, so that you may become the children of your Father in heaven. For He makes His sun to shine on bad and good people alike, and gives rain to those who do good and to those who do evil. Why should God reward you if you love only the people who love you? Even the tax collectors do that! And if you speak only to you rfriends, have you done anything out of the ordinary? Even the pagans do that! You must be perfect—just as your Father in heaven is perfect.” (Matthew 5:43-48, Good News Translation). As you can see, Jesus is actually exhorting his followers to do the EXACT OPPOSITE of what the popes and such who called for the crusades were calling for… Needless to say that Jesus left a really tough act to follow, but that is no excuse for trying, and that all Christians, including myself, must remember to admit when we’ve done wrong and seek forgiveness from those who we’ve wronged as well as God.
The second phrase of rationalization, which is often paired with the first is, “They Got What They Deserved” This is what Hitler used to rationalie his attempted extermination of the Jews…. The Jews were running the country into ground with their usury, so they got what they deserved when he unleased his “final solution” on them. Similarly, Ghenghis Khan, in his bid to take over the world back in the 13th century, felt that his goal justified whatever means he used to attain it, including murdering over 35 MILLION Chinese peasants because China tried to back out of a deal they made with him (hey, they got what they deserved for backing out on them.)
The third phrase, which is not often associated with atrocities, never the less, is often used by individuals to excuse their own evil, and that one is “It’s not really my fault.” Adam and Eve used this excuse in the garden… Adam’s line basically was, “Hey, it’s not my fault I disobeyed you Lord, it was that WOMAN that YOU gave me,” and Eve’s line was, “It’s not my fault, Lord, It was the DEVIL that made me do it.” Understandably, the Lord was not particularly pleased, just like any parent who had caught their kids in the act of doing something wrong, only to have the kids try to BS their way out of it. This is the same rationalization that alcoholics, drug-addicts and smokers use for continuing their habits despite the fact that they know that what they’re doing is wrong: “I’ve tried, but I just can’t help it.”
Here’s a few more examples of how these three basic rationalizations serve as the gateway for evil to come into this world:
I, myself, when I was younger and tormented constantly (getting rocks thrown at me was an almost daily occurrence) on the schoolyard because not only was I different than many of the kids, and one of the poorest in the whole school (meaning that my parents couldn’t afford any of the “cool” toys or brands of clothing), I came to see commercialism and materialism as what was wrong with the world, and I believed that if I were to kill all the rich people and give their money to the poor so that everyone was equal, then all problems would be solved…. Funny thing was, I’d never even heard of Marx back then, because we were still in the Cold War when I was in elementary school, and Communism was, to most local people, “the devil,” and teaching of any of its tenants or philosophies was considered to be subversive and unpatriotic. If I were to have gone through with my glorious “the blood of the Burgeous pigs will water our agarian utopia” plan, I’d have gone down in history as one of the most evil people on the face of the world. However, in my mind, the end (elimination of poverty and true equality) justified the means (killing the rich people, who would’ve got what they deserved). Thankfully, I realized the errors of my thinking! I also would do things (without thinking about it or even realizing it half the time) that would hurt other people, like walking over top of other kids’ projects in Art class. I could take the easy way out and say that I “couldn’t help it” because of my ADD, but that would be falling into rationalization trap #3, besides which nobody would buy that one anyways…..
Basically, I’ve come to realize that all people, even those mean and spitefull kids that mercilessly tormented me throughout my school years, are no less or more evil than myself, and all the suffering in the world is the result of free will… Anywhere you find any kind of differences between people, their social status, or their ideologies, you’ll find conflict, greed, suffering and war: The only way to put an end to evil and suffering would be to put cybernetic implants in everyone’s brains that would keep them from doing anything to hurt themselves or anyone else… But then we wouldn’t really be human anymore, we’d merely be organic robots, and what, then would be the point in living? My father put it best when he once said, “The only time there will be no more greed, war or oppression is when there is only 1 person left alive on the earth.” I’ve seen where everyone, myself included, is so quick to call for justice to be served when others break the law, or do something to hurt someone else, yet when they do such things, they always have a million reasons and excuses as to why they are justified in doing just that thing!
I believe the solution to this problem is Jesus of Nazareth, and the sacrifice He made on the cross… As world-reknowned Christian Apologist Ravi Zacharias put it, “Only on the cross of Jesus Christ do love, justice, evil and forgiveness converge. Evil, in the heart of man, shown in the crucifixion; love, in the heart of God who gave his Son; forgiveness, because of the grace of Christ; and justice, because of the law of God revealed. That is at the heart of the Christian story. God has done something about evil.” That revelation to me of a God who loved even someone like me enough to take all my sins and evil on his back and suffer and die (in one of the worst ways imaginiable) is what led me to Christ.
In conclusion, evil and the justification thereof is not a result of religion or the lack thereof, but our own evil, conniving nature, the only antidote for which is love, and God Himself is the embodiment of the ultimate love. Furthermore, we must all be on the guard against demagogues and those who would use virtues as an excuse to commit atrocity... As a wise man once said, "The price of liberty is eternal vigilance."
aneeshm
Deity
That's exactly how it works. Some part of the sadistic pleasure we receive from killing and eating babies goes to our Prophet, and that keeps him alive.
What do you mean by that? I am no more bothered or offended by them than the average atheist is by claims that theirs is an immoral or illogical position; less even, to judge by this thread, than some; but to deny it exists seems to me to be missing the obvious.
