Existing Buildings Discussion

[strategyonly]

@strategyonly

Did you build a Copper Smelter or an Iron Smelter?

They were NOT available??

 

[AIAndy]

They were NOT available??

Looks like the mine is not in the city radius.

 

[strategyonly]

Looks like the mine is not in the city radius.

WOW, when did we put a restriction on mines not having the tile radius?? I thought it was still as BtS was, as long as you have one?? At least it was in the last game i tested??

 

[Hydromancerx]

@strategyonly

Is there a Copper Mine building available to build?

 

[strategyonly]

@strategyonly

Is there a Copper Mine building available to build?

the one that gives out the , yes.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Well if you can build it then its needed for the Smelter. And in turn the smelter will make ingots, which the "Smith" will require along with a Forge or Foundry and thus will produce "wares".

Ore (resource) -> Mine (building) + Smelter (building) -> Ingot (resource) -> Smith (building) + Forge/Smelter (building) -> Ware (resource) -> Building and/or Unit

 

[strategyonly]

Well if you can build it then its needed for the Smelter. And in turn the smelter will make ingots, which the "Smith" will require along with a Forge or Foundry and thus will produce "wares".

Ore (resource) -> Mine (building) + Smelter (building) -> Ingot (resource) -> Smith (building) + Forge/Smelter (building) -> Ware (resource) -> Building and/or Unit

OK i get it, but it doesn't say i need a Copper mine building to make a smelter??

 

[Hydromancerx]

OK i get it, but it doesn't say i need a Copper mine building to make a smelter??

What do you mean? It says so in your picture. "Requires Copper Mine" in red.

 

[strategyonly]

What do you mean? It says so in your picture. "Requires Copper Mine" in red.

Copper mine YES, Copper Mine Building NO??

 

[Flinx]

I think the improvement mine only provides access to copper ore.
Having the copper ore in your city vicinity allows you to build the copper mine (building that is).

In general:
-> Ore (resource)(provided by improvement mine)
-> Mine (building)
-> Smelter (building)
-> Ingot (resource)
-> Smith (building) + Forge/Smelter (building)
-> Ware (resource)
-> Building and/or Unit

 

[ls612]

Copper mine YES, Copper Mine Building NO??

That is what that means, it requires the Copper Mine building. The name of the improvement is simply the Mine, not a Copper mine.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Hmm looks like TB needs to convert the Hero units too. They still have the old system.

And to answer your question, DH has been asking em to redo the metal processing for awhile now. However it took me awhile to figure out how exact I would do it. So last week I redid all the buildings and wonders while TB did the units.

There are now 3 types of metals; "ore", "ingots" and "wares".

Ores - These are the map resources and use the same tags as the original resources had. They were renamed to have the name "Ore" attach to them so they would not be confused with the other 2 types. Note that city vicinity buildings and corporation buildings still use them.

Ingots - Ingot are the processed material of the ore. they are made from Smelters which require an ore resource to be in their city vicinity. However there are ore types of ingots than there are ores. Such as Bronze, Brass and Electrum Ingots that ate made by combinations of ingots.

Wares - Wares are the metal products that are used in everything from tools, weapons, pipes, utensils, nails, etc. They are made by the "smith" buildings and require an ingot plus a Forge or Foundry. This fixes much of the trade problems we had with the vicinity buildings. While trading ore won't help you trading ingots or wares will. Wares have filled the old role of most unit and building requirements. Including making units or buildings faster. There are some exceptions such as Gold Ingots in Fort Knox and World Trade Center, but for the most part everything now requires wares.

While this is now a longer process to get metals it does allow for more resources to be traded and thus 1 iron ore resource could become 10 Iron Wares. Thus supplying all the region with the resource needed to make units and buildings.

The main point of all these changes is to represent the difficulty in transportation or supply. So that early on you only have access to the metal in the city that mines it. Later you can transport the metal anywhere and later still you are making enough of the good so that they are found everywhere in your nation.

I am thinking that maybe the early ones should become free (in new cities) at the tech for the later one, or slightly further on in the tech tree. The problem is

1) that people (players) will complain about the pollution.
2) free at tech does not check for requirements
3) new cities wont have the population needed to support the building.

Is it possible t have an autobuild on a building that happens at a different tech to the one the building becomes available at?

 

[Hydromancerx]

3) new cities wont have the population needed to support the building.

Well some of the buildings. The mine building has no city restrictions. However the later infer structure has limitations.

This is to simulate the first miners staking their claims and getting the ore. But after that the town must grow to support more difficult processing of the metals.

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

But free at tech will put the mines in every city because it does not do the vicinity check either.

 

[Hydromancerx]

But free at tech will put the mines in every city because it does not do the vicinity check either.

Where's it give it for free?

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Where's it give it for free?

<Engage "Talks to a four year old" mode> If you are going to use the "Free at Tech" tag on the "Copper Mine" building then all new cities will get the "Copper Mine" building not just the ones with copper in the vicinity.<Disengage mode>

 

[Hydromancerx]

<Engage "Talks to a four year old" mode> If you are going to use the "Free at Tech" tag on the "Copper Mine" building then all new cities will get the "Copper Mine" building not just the ones with copper in the vicinity.<Disengage mode>

Ah ok. Thanks. Now I understand.

Well then I do not think we should have it given free then. At least not the mine. However the smelter could be given free. This would make cities with the resource still unique but allow all cities after a certain point to be producing ingots.

What do you think?

 

[Thunderbrd]

Smelters are terrifyingly polluting buildings, or at least they should be (from an Industrial Era standpoint). There should be very few of these and they should be heavily damaging to the environment. Thus, I disagree they should be free in any way.

Perhaps we're overreaching to make these buildings free. Sometimes I feel that it takes away from the game to have so many auto-build processes. I know that's an unpopular view but its how I feel.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Smelters are terrifyingly polluting buildings, or at least they should be (from an Industrial Era standpoint). There should be very few of these and they should be heavily damaging to the environment. Thus, I disagree they should be free in any way.

Perhaps we're overreaching to make these buildings free. Sometimes I feel that it takes away from the game to have so many auto-build processes. I know that's an unpopular view but its how I feel.

I agree. But if DH was set with auto buildings then that would be where you would do it, since it makes no sense to have a Copper Mine in a city that had no copper resource nearby.

 

[ls612]

In my commit yesterday I mentioned that I was reducing a bit in the Medieval era via Tech commerce modifiers. That though was about a third of the gold that in my calculations needs removal in that era. So I'm searching for good candidates for existing buildings to get maintenance costs. I'm thinking that the Castle and Smiths would be a good first target, but what else should get maintenance costs in the Medieval era?