Existing Buildings Discussion

[Thunderbrd]

Some upgrades on those could play well into providing free promos or added experience to some of DH's new unit categories like Storytellers, Diplomats and Lawyers.

 

[JosEPh_II]

School of Scribes could use the Seminary ( a Religion Civic bldg for one) maybe available at Theology, just off the top of my pointy head. Maybe Library too, or Monasteries where writings were stored and reviewed/copied on a regular basis. I'm sure there are others that could apply.

But this still does not address the Upfront cost of any of this. The Upfront cost should be lower in all cases. Then as beakers are added by New techs/Civic development the Gold cost could increase too.

Math Academy has the foundation already built in to do this. Reduce the Upfront Gold cost to a 2 gold to 3 beaker ratio and as you add the 2 beaker from each upgrade the cost increases by 1 gold. It has 4 or 5 upgrades, so that 10 beaker final goal at the end would cost 6 or 7 gold. And the cost is backloaded as the game allows for more Gold to be made. (Might even address some of the medieval Gold surge that ls612 is complaining about) Same set up could be developed for SoS and Lib. And Libraries could have a direct effect on University too.

And a side effect would be less Global Gold maint. scaling that is too prevalent IMO now. All these Maint Modifiers really do is make the game too convoluted and too easy to break but much harder to fix. But that's another topic for another time.

JosEPh

 

[Thunderbrd]

School of Scribes could use the Seminary ( a Religion Civic bldg for one) maybe available at Theology, just off the top of my pointy head. Maybe Library too, or Monasteries where writings were stored and reviewed/copied on a regular basis. I'm sure there are others that could apply.

But this still does not address the Upfront cost of any of this. The Upfront cost should be lower in all cases. Then as beakers are added by New techs/Civic development the Gold cost could increase too.

Math Academy has the foundation already built in to do this. Reduce the Upfront Gold cost to a 2 gold to 3 beaker ratio and as you add the 2 beaker from each upgrade the cost increases by 1 gold. It has 4 or 5 upgrades, so that 10 beaker final goal at the end would cost 6 or 7 gold. And the cost is backloaded as the game allows for more Gold to be made. (Might even address some of the medieval Gold surge that ls612 is complaining about) Same set up could be developed for SoS and Lib. And Libraries could have a direct effect on University too.

And a side effect would be less Global Gold maint. scaling that is too prevalent IMO now. All these Maint Modifiers really do is make the game too convoluted and too easy to break but much harder to fix. But that's another topic for another time.

JosEPh

Please refer to Hydro's arguments on this matter in the Great Building Cost Discussion thread. I felt they were somewhat compelling but I'd like to see if you can summon an argument that directly addresses his points. (The first post in the thread summarizes all the discussion on the topic that was taking place in the SVN thread and his comments on that were there.)

 

[Taxman66]

What's up with the extremely expensive maintenance (20-25 ) cost on the 3rd level administration building? It doesn't seem worth building to get 1-3 extra hammers and an extra specialist.

 

[MaXimillionZero]

The math academy gets better as you get new techs (for instance, Algebra) so by the end of the Medieval Era you get 10 science for 5 gold.

So add the increased maintenance as those upgrades happen, not in its initial state.

 

[Koshling]

So add the increased maintenance as those upgrades happen, not in its initial state.

Why? It costs as much to run an academy at any point. Its effects are greater when whatever it researches have more uses. Seems fine to me - early on its a 'luxury' research building and you have few of them, limited to science centers. Later on it becomes a more 'normal' building and you build them everywhere. If you scale all aspects equally it becomes bland and might as well just be a sequence of amplified versions of the same thing in all eras. Overall I like the way I works now (which is not necessarily to say that the exact numbers are perfect - I'm not expressing an opinion - just that the way the balance changes is a good thing)

 

[ls612]

So add the increased maintenance as those upgrades happen, not in its initial state.

Why? That mechanism makes it a unique strategic decision. Do you build it early and get the bonus longer, or do you wait until you research more techs but lose out on some time of it giving your bonuses.

 

[Nimek]

Smokehouse should replace drying frame and other buildings revelated by drying tech.
It also should produce same dry resources as that building has.

Think if human have fire/smoke to dry meat noone use sun to dry food anymore

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

Smokehouse should replace drying frame and other buildings revelated by drying tech.
It also should produce same dry resources as that building has.

Think if human have fire/smoke to dry meat noone use sun to dry food anymore

If you have lots of sun, you still use it for drying stuff. I am fairly sure we still dry fruit using the sun here in Australia.

 

[Hydromancerx]

If you have lots of sun, you still use it for drying stuff. I am fairly sure we still dry fruit using the sun here in Australia.

The Dried Fruit Maker doesn't require the Drying Frame. Only the Dried Meat and Fish Makers do. However I am unsure if the Drying Frame should merge into the Smokehouse since the Drying frame is used to dry animal hides too.

Perhaps have the Dried Meat and Fish Makers require a Drying Frame OR Smokehouse.

 

[Nimek]

@hydro

After considering Dried meat and dried fish should update to smokehouse.

Goal is to replace prehistoric buildings with more advanced versions.

Drifting wood gatherer should update to lumber camp. No-one search wood in water when he have axe and forest.

 

[RidetheSpiral23]

@hydro

After considering Dried meat and dried fish should update to smokehouse.

Goal is to replace prehistoric buildings with more advanced versions.

Drifting wood gatherer should update to lumber camp. No-one search wood in water when he have axe and forest.

God please this. I desperately want more buildings to be obsoleted by newer ones in the prehistoric. I hate building all those 1 turn buildings in new cities after tribalism. Also it would be nice to see berry bushes, wild mushrooms, and nut cracking stone into a Forest Garden or something.

 

[Thunderbrd]

True consolidation into upgrade paths in buildings could really help us take the building selection volume down while keeping the diversity up.

 

[Hydromancerx]

@hydro

After considering Dried meat and dried fish should update to smokehouse.

Goal is to replace prehistoric buildings with more advanced versions.

Drifting wood gatherer should update to lumber camp. No-one search wood in water when he have axe and forest.

The things is I want those buildings to produce resources in the future. Having them merge to a smokehouse would not allow for separate resources. That's why I did not just make say a generic all in one "Dried Food Maker" building.

As for the driftwood, its use is if you do not have a forest nearby.

True consolidation into upgrade paths in buildings could really help us take the building selection volume down while keeping the diversity up.

This is always difficult since in general the "upgrade" has to be better than the combined buildings. Likewise just because it was invented in the prehistoric era doesn't mean it doesn't have regular use in later eras.

In my test game today I have been able to build a lot more buildings thanks to DH's slavery. So much so I was running out of buildings to build in my oldest cities and actually went back to building Merchants and sometimes hammers to gold and/or science, depending upon my science rate.

 

[Nimek]

So now it is impossible to produce few resources from one building depending on available technology and other resources.

Like in your example dried food maker can't produce dried meat and dried fish at one time?

If yes than it should be fixed. That will save us a lot of work and players confusion.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So now it is impossible to produce few resources from one building depending on available technology and other resources.

Like in your example dried food maker can't produce dried meat and dried fish at one time?

If yes than it should be fixed. That will save us a lot of work and players confusion.

Its not impossible to produce more than one resource from a building. For instance the Apiary gives both Honey and Wax. However its impossible to have a requirement know which to give. For instance if the Dried Food Maker required Raw Fish OR Raw Meat OR Fruit and then gave Dried Fish, Dried Meat and Dry Fruit, you could not have it give only Dried Fish when you had Raw Fish. It would give you all 3 not matter which requirement you gave it. Which is wrong to get say Dried Fruit from Raw Fish.

But this kind of stuff should not be new to you guys. I mean C2C was originally made with the intention to have complex building dependency webs. That means LOTS of buildings. In fact it was because Afforess took out this stuff in AND that I went and made my own mod HAND which eventually joined up with SO and DH to form C2C. If you want less more streamlined buildings go play R2R or even AND2.

 

[Nimek]

Ok. Thanks for explanation.

But don't you agree that will be better when we will have

Dried Food Maker building
Requires raw meat or fish or fruits
Produce dried meat with raw meat
Produce dried fish with fish
Produce dried fruits with fruits

It will require to add only one tag to xml like resourcemoddifier that will work like tech moddifier.

Building those buildings separately is unrealistic and looks like adding unnecessary complexity that in the end will only confuse players.

 

[AIAndy]

Its not impossible to produce more than one resource from a building. For instance the Apiary gives both Honey and Wax. However its impossible to have a requirement know which to give. For instance if the Dried Food Maker required Raw Fish OR Raw Meat OR Fruit and then gave Dried Fish, Dried Meat and Dry Fruit, you could not have it give only Dried Fish when you had Raw Fish. It would give you all 3 not matter which requirement you gave it. Which is wrong to get say Dried Fruit from Raw Fish.

But this kind of stuff should not be new to you guys. I mean C2C was originally made with the intention to have complex building dependency webs. That means LOTS of buildings. In fact it was because Afforess took out this stuff in AND that I went and made my own mod HAND which eventually joined up with SO and DH to form C2C. If you want less more streamlined buildings go play R2R or even AND2.

From a mechanic side you could split the building into a base building and several auto built "addon" buildings.

 

[Nimek]

@aiandy

Not easier to add new xml tag resourcemodiffier similar to tech moddifier?

 

[Hydromancerx]

From a mechanic side you could split the building into a base building and several auto built "addon" buildings.

That's what I did. The Drying Frame is the base building and then the Dried Meat Maker and Dried Fish Maker are the "addon" buildings. However Nimek doesn't seem to like having "addon" buildings. And want them merged into one building. Which is not possible. Having them auto-build is not what I want for them.