Explosion In London

[chancellor_dan]

Things are quieted down now. I think the English handled this emergency magnificently. Their emergency services really were on top of things. A stellar job!

It was a combined effort from emergency forces across the UK.

 

[h4ppy]

Actually, it does.
EDIT: Clarification is various members belonging to C-18 do, but that's irrelevant.

Except that is relevent. BUt whatever, I'm not gonna go defend the BNP.

 

[wit>trope]

I'm an Arab-American and I am thankful that the economy is doing reasonably well. If there were a depression, I'd be shaking in my boots for fear of being mobbed.

There is something that angers me profoundly about the people who probably executed the attack. They claim to be Muslims, even though the killing of innocent civilians is strictly forbidden by Islamic law (if you actually read it right) and they hinder the progress that millions of Muslims are trying to make in building bridges to other people. These few, a hundred thousand at the most, are giving a billion people, fully one-sixth of the global population, a really bad name, and putting a substantial number of them in a truly nasty situation, with the threat of hate crimes constantly looming.

I think the number that sympathize with the terrorists is much much higher than a hundred thousand. Wasn't there dancing in the literal Arab street after 9-11? Anyway, I read that there is a branch of Islam called Wahabi or something that supports terrorism (or whatever they wish to call it). I don't know how big this Wahabi branch of Islam is. Do you know how big it is? I read that Wahabi Islam is active in the US and is even recruiting US prisoners to their branch of Islam. Many people don't know that Islam has different "denominations." I hope the Wahabi branch of Islam is very small.

 

[chancellor_dan]

I think the number that sympathize with the terrorists is much much higher than a hundred thousand. Wasn't there dancing in the literal Arab street after 9-11? Anyway, I read that there is a branch of Islam called Wahabi or something that supports terrorism (or whatever they wish to call it). I don't know how big this Wahabi branch of Islam is. Do you know how big it is? I read that Wahabi Islam is active in the US and is even recruiting US prisoners to their branch of Islam. Many people don't know that Islam has different "denominations." I hope the Wahabi branch of Islam is very small.

I totally agree. I was reluctant to say but i do think a larger proportion of Muslims do sympathise with the terrorsts. Even senior members of the Muslim council for GB were cold and detatched from emotion in their condemnation of this attack.

 

[privatehudson]

You're not looking at things in perspective

Sure I am, you're just changing the perspective you wish me to look at. Originally you asked to consider it in terms of total population, so I mentioned that 3-4 times that number supported non-islamic extremist groups here. Now you wish me to consider it in terms of percentages, so I'll point to the UDA/UDF/IRA analogy which probably works even better. There will always be extremist groups who gain a degree of support from the populace if there is a genuine concern or cause hidden somewhere in their supposed cause.

Furthermore I'd still like to see the context of that survey before we make a sweeping judgement on what the Islamic people of the UK think of things. Let me put it this way, one of the aims of the IRA is to unite Ireland. If you go to the middle of a catholic area of Belfast and ask people do they support a united Ireland, then I'd bet you'd get some support for it too. Bingo, right there you have support for the IRA, only you don't really, you have support for one of their aims.

I'm not saying this survey was conducted in a similar fashion, but I think all surveys need to be taken with a pinch of salt unless analysis of it proves otherwise.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Comparing Al-Qaeda to the UDA/UVF and the Provos doesn't work. For a start the UDA was the largest paramilitary in Ulster but even at the height of the troubles only had 20,000 members.

Also, they were seen as 'defenders of their communities'. I don't think you can call the Loyalists or the Provos 'extremists' in that sense. They were organisations exclusive to the communities they sought to defend.

Can you say you think its the same with Al-Qaeda, that theyre exclusively an organisation fighting for the British Muslim community?

 

[Damnyankee]

I think the number that sympathize with the terrorists is much much higher than a hundred thousand. Wasn't there dancing in the literal Arab street after 9-11? Anyway, I read that there is a branch of Islam called Wahabi or something that supports terrorism (or whatever they wish to call it). I don't know how big this Wahabi branch of Islam is. Do you know how big it is? I read that Wahabi Islam is active in the US and is even recruiting US prisoners to their branch of Islam. Many people don't know that Islam has different "denominations." I hope the Wahabi branch of Islam is very small.

It isn't very small, Bastards were celebrating in Bay Ridge(A piece of Brooklyn with a high muslem population). Anyway, I work with the MTA and I am in the subways often, doing inspections. My job got a whole lot harder. If anyone wants to know what is happening in NY, basically, people are using the subways as normal, but cops both ununiformed and uniformed are at the platforms and stairs leading up to stations incase of attacks here. I am at a loss at these attacks. Whoever these Bastards are (IRA, Al-Quada, etc.) should pay...

 

[privatehudson]

Comparing Al-Qaeda to the UDA/UVF and the Provos doesn't work. For a start the UDA was the largest paramilitary in Ulster but even at the height of the troubles only had 20,000 members.

Doesn't wash as I'd be willing to bet that neither does Al-Qaeda in this country, they have 200,000 people who allegedly agree with their aims which is not the same thing as membership. If support for their cause equates to membership then I would bet that between them the IRA etc had at least that many.

Also, they were seen as 'defenders of their communities'. I don't think you can call the Loyalists or the Provos 'extremists' in that sense. They were organisations exclusive to the communities they sought to defend.

An organisation that deliberately attacks civilians is a terrorist organisation in my mind, regardless of their excuses for doing so.

Can you say you think its the same with Al-Qaeda, that theyre exclusively an organisation fighting for the British Muslim community?

Nope, and frankly I don't care. The IRA/UDA/UVF are terrorists plain and simple. I don't seek to define whether their political excuses are any more valid than the next terrorist group. The only way I am interested in that is in how it impacts on the peace process.

Both sets were involved in terrorist acts, both sets claim political excuses to justify those acts, both sets had support (even if the extent is not yet determined) from parts of the British public. That's enough for me to consider all 4 groups scum, though I don't consider that people who support some of those groups aims to be scum as it depends on what aims they support.

As I said, it all depends on the context of that survey because there's always lies, damn lies and statistics.

 

[ainwood]

I agree - support for the aims does not equate to support for the methods.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Enlighten us then. What are the aims of Al-Qaeda?

 

[Damnyankee]

I think the number that sympathize with the terrorists is much much higher than a hundred thousand. Wasn't there dancing in the literal Arab street after 9-11? Anyway, I read that there is a branch of Islam called Wahabi or something that supports terrorism (or whatever they wish to call it). I don't know how big this Wahabi branch of Islam is. Do you know how big it is? I read that Wahabi Islam is active in the US and is even recruiting US prisoners to their branch of Islam. Many people don't know that Islam has different "denominations." I hope the Wahabi branch of Islam is very small.

It isn't very small, Bastards were celebrating in Bay Ridge(A piece of Brooklyn with a high muslem population). Anyway, I work with the MTA and I am in the subways often, doing inspections. My job got a whole lot harder. If anyone wants to know what is happening in NY, basically, people are using the subways as normal, but cops both ununiformed and uniformed are at the platforms and stairs leading up to stations incase of attacks here. I am at a loss at these attacks. Whoever these Bastards are (IRA, Al-Quada, etc.) should pay...

 

[HAND]

200,000 - that can't be dismissed as 'not the point'. That's like a city the size of Norwich.

That is a sizeable percentage of the population who could harbour terrorists, or even participate in such acts.

Trying not to be picking on a day like this, but are actually 1.5-2 million muslims in the UK, not 200,000. I assume only a small percentage of them agree with Osama, but thats simply a guess.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Trying not to be picking on a day like this, but are actually 1.5-2 million muslims in the UK, not 200,000. I assume only a small percentage of them agree with Osama, but thats simply a guess.

If you'd actually read what i'd said, i claimed around 10% of the 2 million muslims supported Al-Qaeda...which equates to arounf 200,000.

 

[HAND]

If you'd actually read what i'd said, i claimed around 10% of the 2 million muslims supported Al-Qaeda...which equates to arounf 200,000.

My mistake..

 

[Nobody]

man the local tv station here is going to be gutted, they spent millions on New Zealands biggest boxing tonoment ever and after the second fight the news cut in and never went off. Its amazing how terrorism cost so many different people money on different sides of the world (not that im comparing losing a tv show verus the disatar)

 

[BasketCase]

I'm not complacent, dear god how could I be today? I am just suggesting that we have some experience of involving ordinary people in preventing terror attacks.

I think you're forgetting the extent of the IRA campaign - living in London through those years I was caught up in two explosions personally, one of my employer's offices was destroyed only months after I changed jobs, hundreds of millions of pounds worth of damage caused and hundreds of lives taken.

Complacency hasn't left us vulnerable, we have always been vulnerable.

Complacency wasn't the problem. The world is just an imperfect place.

The U.S. didn't catch 9/11 in time. The Spanish government didn't catch the Madrid train bombers. Russian intelligence agencies failed to catch the Chechen separatists before they committed their raid on that movie theater. India, Phillipines, Japan, pick a nation; none of our nations can catch all of them all the time.

It's nothing you did wrong, and all these comments in this thread that "Blair should have seen this attack coming" are simply abominable.

 

[LoughlinNR]

Edgware road is a very muslim area so maybe the muslims that sympathise with islamic terrorists should get their loyalties right, Britain has been home to many muslims for over 40 years now and have made them feel welcomed, while of the other hand these terrorists are not fighting for british muslims at all if they are willing to blow them up, british muslims are seen as 'westernised' so have no problem with taking their lives*

*i know it has not yet been confirmed that it was islamic terrorists but as far as im concerned the IRA couldn’t do it and nobody else would have a reason to do it (not that any reason they give could justify what they did)

 

[chancellor_dan]

The IRA did manage a 4 bomb attack in London before, but this is not IRA.
Theyre decommissioning.
Why would they do this and damage the peace process in Northern Ireland?
The IRA tended to give prior warning before and attack also.

This is Islamic.

 

[ainwood]

This is Islamic.

Please be more precise. That is like saying the IRA bombings are catholic.

This is Al-Qaeda.

 

[chancellor_dan]

Please be more precise. That is like saying the IRA bombings are catholic.

This is Al-Qaeda.

The Catholic community in Northern Ireland on the most part rejoiced at the IRA's slaughter of British civilians.

My Father served in the British army in Ulster. I know how deep the hatred runs for the British in the Catholic communities of Ulster.

It's not unreasonable to suggest a great many Muslims feel no sadness towards today's events.