Extra Traits for C2C

[Sgtslick]

Think I want to re-give seafaring a +1 health and remove the hunter gatherer health bonus.
Do people approve of current balance? Such as scientific now getting +12% instead of +10%, industrious only having +35% wonder production, Deceivers getting +3 esp per city instead of 2 etc etc
Thoughts on any of this or anything previously mentioned? Guess people aren't much interested in traits

 

[Thunderbrd]

The problem is that they are almost impossible to evaluate without loading the game and taking a look! If we posted and maintained a list of them with their values here and kept up on editing that post as you went, I'd find it a lot easier to review and comment! Not that I don't care about the traits - quite the opposite. Just that I have a hard time remembering and catching time to do the lengthy steps necessary to review them again.

 

[Sgtslick]

Original Traits - not including building modifiers


PHILOSOPHICAL
+100%
Civic Maintenance: +20%
Fur: +1


AGGRESSIVE
+1
+15% (generals)
Civic Maintenance: +20%
COMBAT1 - MELEE GUN HITECH ASSAULT_MECH


SPIRITUAL
Max 2 (anarchy)
Civic Maintenance: +25%
RevIdxGoodReligionMod 0.5


ORGANIZED
Civic Maintenance: -50%
Unit XP: +10%


INDUSTRIOUS
Civic Maintenance: +30%
Wonders: 35%


CREATIVE
Civic Maintenance: +30%
+2 per city


FINANCIAL
Civic Maintenance: +30%
>4=+1
Trade:+1


EXPANSIVE
+4
Civic Maintenance: +30%


CHARISMATIC
+1
Civic Maintenance: +30%
Unit XP: -25%


PROTECTIVE
Civic Maintenance: +30%
GARRISON1 - ARCHER GUN HITECH
DRILL1 - ARCHER GUN HITECH


IMPERIALIST
Civic Maintenance: +30%
+100%


SEAFARING
+1
Civic Maintenance: +30%
AMPHIBIOUS - MELEE HELICOPTER GUN HITECH ASSAULT_MECH CLONES
COMBAT1 - WOODEN_SHIPS SUBMARINE DIESEL_SHIPS STEAM_SHIPS NUCLEAR_SHIPS


NOMAD
Civic Maintenance: +35%
FLANKING1 - ANIMAL MOUNTED RECON WHEELED
GUERILLA1 - ANIMAL MOUNTED RECON WHEELED
SPEED - RECON
HORSE +1
CAMEL +1


AGRICULTURAL
Civic Maintenance: +30%
>5=+1


DECEIVER
Civic Maintenance: +30%
+3 per city
DECEPTION1 - SPY
IMPROVISE1 - SPY


SCIENTIFIC
Civic Maintenance: +30%
+1 per city
+12%


HUMANITARIAN
Civic Maintenance: +5%
+1
+1
MEDIC1 - RECON


PROGRESSIST
Civic Maintenance: +30%
Unit XP: -15%
COMBAT1 - GUN HITECH ASSAULT_MECH
Wonders: +10%
Upgrade units anwhere ability


POLITICIAN
Civic Maintenance: +15%
Max 3
+1
+10%
LOYALTY - SPY



.
.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Nomad should get +1 from Camels instead of Fur. Since you can be a Desert Nomad.

 

[Thunderbrd]

ORGANIZED
Civic Maintenance: -35%
Unit XP: +15%

I don't feel this is very well balanced... I'd avoid organized like the plague with this. Do we only have Civic Maintenance to control here? If so, at least -50% if we're going to make things harder to promote units like that (OUCH!)

FINANCIAL
Civic Maintenance: +30%
>4=+1
Trade:+1

Too much of a direct contradiction I think. I'd give it +1 or +2 unhealth rather than any civic maintenance penalty.

NOMAD
Civic Maintenance: +35%
FLANKING1 - ANIMAL MOUNTED RECON WHEELED
GUERILLA1 - ANIMAL MOUNTED RECON WHEELED
SPEED - RECON
HORSE +1
FUR +1

A little too much reliance on Civic Upkeep for a counterbalance is all throughout here I think. For example, I'd give Nomad a research penalty since the leader and his people are always 'on the go'.

I'll come back later to give a full analysis... these are just a few that caught my eye for now.

 

[JosEPh_II]

What is good about Spiritual? What if you don't use Rev? Or are you just trying to kill it off?

JosEPh

 

[Sgtslick]

I'd avoid organized like the plague with this.

What makes organized good is not the civic bonus its the VERY important buildings like factories, courthouses, town halls, village halls and quite a number of other buildings that are all double production.

Too much of a direct contradiction I think. I'd give it +1 or +2 unhealth rather than any civic maintenance penalty.

I don't think its a contradiction at all really but how about change it to +15% civic and -1

A little too much reliance on Civic Upkeep for a counterbalance is all throughout here I think. For example, I'd give Nomad a research penalty since the leader and his people are always 'on the go'.

I'll come back later to give a full analysis... these are just a few that caught my eye for now.

As I said in earlier post;

..I have not finished implementing a negative aspect into the original traits..I thought i'd hand it offer to you as is at this point since I might be slowing things down. I don't have much free time as of late.

Since nothing had been implemented since this, I put in the civic maintenance as a fix.

Earlier I mention alternatives as well as other problems also - such as needing someone to look at the property modifier that's currently in aggressive.

I guess for now im more interested in the beneficial aspects of the traits.

@joseph Maximum anarchy is imo the best trait aspect by a long shot.

 

[JosEPh_II]

@joseph Maximum anarchy is imo the best trait aspect by a long shot.

Please, could you clarify what you mean by this? I'm not following where this is going.

JosEPh

 

[ls612]

Please, could you clarify what you mean by this? I'm not following where this is going.

JosEPh

I think what he means is that having an Anarchy cap is a huge benefit, and is intended to be the primary effect of being Spiritual, with the REV and temple bonuses being secondary.

 

[RPG]

Has anyone gone through the traits/leaders to see that all the combinations are used once? Are any combinations missing in C2C?

 

[Sgtslick]

@RPG I did not count combinations no. Traits are somewhat evenly distributed but the combination of traits - has not been looked at, no. Your welcome to go ahead and count them all out


In other news, I want to change organized from
ORGANIZED
Civic Maintenance: -35%
Unit XP: +15%

TO
ORGANIZED
Civic Maintenance: -50%
Unit XP: +10%

~~ And change

NOMAD
FUR +1 to CAMEL +1

Give
SEAFARING back there +1

& revert IMPERIALIST back to +100%

Here are those changes implemented.

 

[GiuseppeIII]

What are the best traits and leaders

 

[Thunderbrd]

Well, I can tell you my favorite combination was completely eliminated the last time I started a game (Aggressive, Charismatic) (and Excessive is a REALLY nice primarily negative trait to go with them.)

I figured you'd gone out of your way to eliminate this power combo?


@GuiseppeIII: THAT is such a matter of preference and if the job here is done right cannot have an answer, period. However, I value unit strength over just about anything so Charismatic is huge for me and Aggressive, Protective, Nomadic, Seafaring, and Excessive all combine very powerfully with it.

That said, I could fall far behind in techs and grow exceedingly frustrated with missing out on wonders if pit against equally skilled human players with such combinations as: Financial, Scientific or Aggricultural, (that one that builds wonders faster... what was it again?) Anyhow, suffice it to say, choose according to your game play values.

 

[Sgtslick]

If you come across leaders whose features overlap let me know.

Example:
Spiritual + political + revolutionary. All 3 limit anarchy, we don't want more than 1 for anyone.

Another example:
Aggressive + Barbaric. Both give COMBAT1 to melee.

Another example:
Seafaring + Isolationist. Both give AMPHIBIOUS.

Another example:
Humanitarian + Semi-civilized. Both give MEDIC1 on recon.

Any overlaps like these please report thanks!

Also if anyone knows/can show of where a leaders traits directly contradict the historical truth of that person let me know. Such as an anti-clerical leader actually being very religious etc. A lot of the traits were given out somewhat randomly so if you want to correct this - please let me know!

Also if anyone wants to volunteer to write up some trait descriptions such as those in the civilopedia for some traits but not others. Let me know!

And lastly how is balance at the moment? Should progressive be nerfed? I was thinking -15% xp should be more like 10 or 8, maybe even boost civic upkeep to 35 too.

How about negative traits, any outrageously bad/good ones? I also need to change semi-civilized since I never changed it (not too many leaders have it tho).

Cheers.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I'm still trying to find time to go through those thoroughly but I will... hopefully soon

 

[Sgtslick]

What are the best traits and leaders

Im playing stalin at the moment- Deceiver +3 per city, free deception and improvise for spies, then Political which gives free loyalty for spies, and Cruel which gives +5% espionage points. Pretty nice espionage leader I thought, I just gotta stay alive long enough so I can get some spies built

 

[Hydromancerx]

Another example:
Seafaring + Isolationist. Both give AMPHIBIOUS.

Why would Isolationist give Amphibious?

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Sgtslick

So AIAndy says we can put property manipulators on Leader traits.

You can have property manipulators on traits and civics. But mind that the AI is not aware of them yet.

What leader traits should give increase crime, which should give decreased crime and by how much?

I am thinking ...

+ Crime
- Barbaric
- Revolutionary
- Schemer

- Crime
- Charismatic
- Deceiver
- Protective

What do you guys think?

EDIT: *looks at the code* Wait do traits already have +/- Crime?

EDIT2: Looks like Aggressive Trait already gives crime. Well that's fine I guess. But we should think about other traits and anti-crime.

 

[Sgtslick]

@Sgtslick

So AIAndy says we can put property manipulators on Leader traits.



What leader traits should give increase crime, which should give decreased crime and by how much?

I am thinking ...

+ Crime
- Barbaric
- Revolutionary
- Schemer

- Crime
- Charismatic
- Deceiver
- Protective

What do you guys think?

EDIT: *looks at the code* Wait do traits already have +/- Crime?

EDIT2: Looks like Aggressive Trait already gives crime. Well that's fine I guess. But we should think about other traits and anti-crime.

Look back a page;

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showpost.php?p=11786410&postcount=176

I thought protective should get a crime bonus, nomad a crime negative, aggressive a crime negative,
- Revolutionary
- Schemer
negatives sounds good.

Go ahead and put in all the property manipulations you want, ill just balance them all afterwards accordingly.

Can you do pollution too please. I think industrious, financial, agricultural should get some pollution.

Maybe some flammability too.

While your at it, can you see if my 'slower granaries for hunter gatherers' is still in the building code? If it is why doesn't it show up in the civilopedia? Can I give you a list of buildings that I wanted to be sped up or slowed by traits? I did put in a few already (I thought) but they never worked I don't think - so I didn't do any more, and since your the buildings guru - I'd be more comfortable if you implemented them.

 

[Hydromancerx]

Can you do pollution too please. I think industrious, financial, agricultural should get some pollution.

I don't know. Where is the pollution coming from then?