Extra Traits for C2C

[Sgtslick]

4 new trait tags

• PrereqTech (for specific traits - will help with keeping additional tier traits selectable only once meaningful

ooh this sounds nice

BTW, I wanted to give nomad a slight buff perhaps another free promotion thoughts? Nerf scientific a bit - like 12% to 10%.
Any other quick fix's I should do b4 new version?

 

[ls612]

4 new trait tags

• 
  <snip>
• bCoastalAIInfluence - denotes that this trait is beneficial mostly to nations with a lot of coastal cities - helps the ai in determining value of that trait selection
  <snip>

I'll bet that that is poor practice from a general AI coding perspective and that Koshling would have a better idea for this.

 

[Thunderbrd]

There are so few valid reasons to tweak the AI structure there, that this should be sufficient for now. If it grows into so many more traits with such kinds of really special circumstances such as that, then it becomes more a matter of the tags on the trait. But I'm hoping to avoid that as most of the turn time delays we have already have to do with this sort of ai where its necessary.

Sure its a bit spotty but its also possibly temporary. It answers to the one case I see being potentially an issue for the AI determinations.

 

[ls612]

There are so few valid reasons to tweak the AI structure there, that this should be sufficient for now. If it grows into so many more traits with such kinds of really special circumstances such as that, then it becomes more a matter of the tags on the trait. But I'm hoping to avoid that as most of the turn time delays we have already have to do with this sort of ai where its necessary.

Sure its a bit spotty but its also possibly temporary. It answers to the one case I see being potentially an issue for the AI determinations.

It is fine as a temporary sticky-tape patch, but I'd much rather overall focus on finding performance gains (via multi-threading possibly) and then try and make the AI much better, as otherwise there isn't much of a challenge in many games.

 

[ls612]

Here are another three traits.

Creative:

+ (10/20/30)% GPP
+ (1/2/3) per Specialist
+ (4/6/8) in the Largest City
+ (10/20/30)%
+ (25/15/5)% Upkeep for Civics


Creative: (Normal)

+ 20% GPP
+ 2 per Specialist
+ 5 in the Largest City
+ 20%
+ 10% Upkeep for Civics

Deceiver:

+ (10/20/30)%
Less Internal Revolt Risk
Spies receive Free Deceiver promotion (-10/20/30% chance of being caught)
Maximum (6/4/3) turns of Anarchy
- (2/2/1) Relations with all Foreign nations

Deceiver: (Normal)

+ 20%
Less Internal Revolt Risk
Spies receive Free Deceiver promotion (-15% chance of being caught)
Maximum 5 turns of Anarchy
- 1 Relations with all Foreign nations

Scientific:

+ (5/10/15)%
+ (2/3/4) free Scientists per City
- 1


Scientific: (Normal)

+ 10%
+ 3 free Scientists per City
- 1

@Thunderbrd: I don't know if I said this before (if not I'm sorry), but in these proposals it is assumed that every trait keeps the specific building production modifiers it has currently.

I'm also thinking that given SO's comments about this potentially being a modmod that after the Freeze I should start implementing these suggestions with the modifications suggested by others on the SVN and your 'complex' traits can be tested and balanced as a modmod for anyone who is interested.

 

[strategyonly]

Here are another three traits.

I'm also thinking that given SO's comments about this potentially being a modmod that after the Freeze I should start implementing these suggestions with the modifications suggested by others on the SVN and your 'complex' traits can be tested and balanced as a modmod for anyone who is interested.

There ya go, now thats the way to get stuff done, modmod's.
This makes modmods the best test subjects ever!! DH taught me this.

 

[BlueGenie]

I think I feel I have to point out that + or or any yield on all Specialists is a bit overpowered in my opinion. Having this on one type would be perfectly fine and still very good.

Scientific getting that many specialists per city is also in my opinion very overpowered, possibly not if Scientific isn't available until after Writing/Literature but from start it is.
What happened to +1 per city, or make it +2/+4/+6 with +4 being the normal one?

Cheers

 

[ls612]

I think I feel I have to point out that + or or any yield on all Specialists is a bit overpowered in my opinion. Having this on one type would be perfectly fine and still very good.

Scientific getting that many specialists per city is also in my opinion very overpowered, possibly not if Scientific isn't available until after Writing/Literature but from start it is.
What happened to +1 per city, or make it +2/+4/+6 with +4 being the normal one?

Cheers

For Culture not really, it isn't that OP.

As for Scientific getting more Specialists it is not too much of an issue later on. For instance in my current game I have a city of size 35 with 8 Scientists and 5 Priests, so another 2 or 3 Scientists will be a nice bonus, but I don't think game-breakingly so. You have a point though about the early game though, so I'll rethink that part of it.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I was considering doing up a modmod version of a proposal as well so that doesn't bother me. But let's not be overriding Slick on his plans, whatever they may be, either. Either way, whatever you and I do ls612 is likely to be a modmod at first but I hope that whatever we do, Slick is paying attention to and making his best efforts to incorporate at least the spirit behind the methods of our proposals. Know what I mean?

If he wants to accept either one straight through then by all means I'd back him on that. But I have a feeling he'll want to severely tweak anything you and I propose into his own vision.

In the meantime, our modmods provide for those players who agree particularly with our views on how traits should be arranged. This makes sense to me. Perhaps, if we can finally sort out this issue of modules as options, we could work it out so that the trait layouts could even be given a dropbox option selection, kinda like map options do. So long as we explain the differences in our approaches it could be a positive thing for the mod to have such variety!

 

[Dancing Hoskuld]

For Culture not really, it isn't that OP.

As for Scientific getting more Specialists it is not too much of an issue later on. For instance in my current game I have a city of size 35 with 8 Scientists and 5 Priests, so another 2 or 3 Scientists will be a nice bonus, but I don't think game-breakingly so. You have a point though about the early game though, so I'll rethink that part of it.

In my size 28 scientific city I have 1 engineer, 8 scientists and 9 priests (pop as specialist); plus 3 scientist and one priest specialists. I am still in the Classic era. I had to cut back on population growth in that city because of unhappiness due to the number of religions in the city. A new thing with the version I a playing.

 

[ls612]

I was considering doing up a modmod version of a proposal as well so that doesn't bother me. But let's not be overriding Slick on his plans, whatever they may be, either. Either way, whatever you and I do ls612 is likely to be a modmod at first but I hope that whatever we do, Slick is paying attention to and making his best efforts to incorporate at least the spirit behind the methods of our proposals. Know what I mean?

If he wants to accept either one straight through then by all means I'd back him on that. But I have a feeling he'll want to severely tweak anything you and I propose into his own vision.

In the meantime, our modmods provide for those players who agree particularly with our views on how traits should be arranged. This makes sense to me. Perhaps, if we can finally sort out this issue of modules as options, we could work it out so that the trait layouts could even be given a dropbox option selection, kinda like map options do. So long as we explain the differences in our approaches it could be a positive thing for the mod to have such variety!

We have to choose something to be in the core for the leveling traits to work right though. The reason I'd prefer mine is that if my 'simpler' traits are there first and we decide to use yours it is really just adding stuff on top (with exceptions here and there), whereas the other way around a lot of stuff is being removed if we go with my route, which can't be good for savegames.

 

[Sgtslick]

Made a couple of small tweaks to the traits. Such as Protective additional +5% city defence. Agricultrual +8% food yields. Philosophical +5% great people. Nomad additional free hunting dog 1+2, woodsman1 on hunters, racing dog1. Progressist +1 on engineers & free reinforced structures on robots & assault mechs. Expansive +4 down to +3. Additional -5% military production for scientific.

 

[ls612]

Made a couple of small tweaks to the traits. Such as Protective additional +5% city defence. Agricultrual +8% food yields. Philosophical +5% great people. Nomad additional free hunting dog 1+2, woodsman1 on hunters, racing dog1. Progressist +1 on engineers & free reinforced structures on robots & assault mechs. Expansive +4 down to +3. Additional -5% military production for scientific.

Sounds good to me. Will those be the last before release?

 

[Sgtslick]

Yeah I think so.

 

[Thunderbrd]

We have to choose something to be in the core for the leveling traits to work right though. The reason I'd prefer mine is that if my 'simpler' traits are there first and we decide to use yours it is really just adding stuff on top (with exceptions here and there), whereas the other way around a lot of stuff is being removed if we go with my route, which can't be good for savegames.

Well, on that, I'd have to say you'll need to work it out with Slick since this is still officially his realm. Otherwise I feel what you have to say there sounds reasonable to me.

 

[ls612]

Well, on that, I'd have to say you'll need to work it out with Slick since this is still officially his realm. Otherwise I feel what you have to say there sounds reasonable to me.

Well I'd be interested in hearing slicks comments on my proposal so far. That is partly why I've been doing it 3 at a time, to keep the information in manageable pieces. Once I'm done going through all the traits and we have a consensus the XML is really simple to do.

 

[Sgtslick]

after the Freeze I should start implementing these suggestions with the modifications suggested by others on the SVN

Err your dreaming..

 

[ls612]

Err your dreaming..

That's not especially nice. I've been laying out concrete ideas here that other people have liked and tweaked, and have not seen your comments on any of them. Please try and be constructive here.

 

[Hydromancerx]

So I have been playing as Julius Caesar which is Organized, Politician and Populist. And man that Populist trait has slowed me WAY down. So much so is that I am almost last. The only one less than me are barbarians that became civilizations. Killing production means it hurts everything. Can't build, cant expand, can't make units. So yeah if you want to play a super difficult game play with that trait.

 

[strategyonly]

So I have been playing as Julius Caesar which is Organized, Politician and Populist. And man that Populist trait has slowed me WAY down. So much so is that I am almost last. The only one less than me are barbarians that became civilizations. Killing production means it hurts everything. Can't build, cant expand, can't make units. So yeah if you want to play a super difficult game play with that trait.

I believe thats exactly what SgtSlick designed it for, i will tell you what, you REALLY have to pay attention to the Trait System NOW!! and its NOT easy picking another trait either.