ExtraModMod

[Calavente]

I think it depends on the computer you have.

Because mine works well with FFH2 media files ; but I don't have blue marble... as it's been a long time that it doesn't look well with already-retextured FFH terrains.

(however, IIRC there was a warning for Blue Marble... but maybe in MnAI...)

 

[Tholal]

Blue Marble is the problem. And I think if you install it last it will be fine. I am also sure that the normal FFH2 installer does NOT include Blue Marble.

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

I am also sure that the normal FFH2 installer does NOT include Blue Marble.

True, I confused it with some other mod's installer. But it is offered on the FFH2 download page right beside the patch "o" and the media pack.

 

[morchuflex]

Hello.

I have been playing with ExtraModmod for two weeks now, and overall I enjoy the changes. However, something really excessive just happened to me, and I don't know if it's a bug or a feature. Here it is:
I had already completed the fourth level Altar of Luonnotar, and just generated a prophet. I was also researching Divine essence, so victory seemed close... Then I suddenly realized that my prophet couldn't create the fith Altar, because... all the former altars were gone from the city I had built them in!
It took me a while to understand what happened, but I eventually realized they had been destroyed by the Worldbreak spell. Now, if it was just a regular building, I wouldn't mind rebuilding it. But since each altar replaces the former, I didn't only lose the fourth one, but also the first three! So, now, I need to generate four additional prophets... Isn't it a bit excessive?

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Scenarios are not supposed to work with EMM, right? I assume that's the case, but just to be sure.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

any news about progress towards the next release Terkhen? I'm looking forward to Eitb v12 being incorporated, but maybe you want to wait till MNAI 2.7 is out of beta?


edit: just looked at the issues page and I see eitb merge is scheduled for 0.6, any chance that we can get the "favored promotion is kept upon upgrading to different unit lines" in 0.5.1 already? the malakim are kinda crappy without that feature

edit2: wiki should probably add the issue with fractional yields that makes 1 hammer cities with apprenticeship get 0 hammers when building units, it was mentioned a few pages ago. it seems like this is a MNAI change so you'll have to ask Tholal where that code is.

edit3: shouldn't puppet states be the same civ as their liberator? kinda weird to get weird offspring and we have plenty of leaders to choose from

edit4: autoplayed a game to the lategame and noticed a couple odd behaviours by the AI: the Illians didn't use Auric Ascended effectively at all, and they didn't seem to have an increase in power rating when he was summoned. they also did not disable their research after done with the tech tree, despite being unwilling to get pass through the ether and future tech

edit5: is the issue with scorpion clan goblins not defending their forts fixed already in newer MNAI versions?

 

[scutarii]

It took me a while to understand what happened, but I eventually realized they had been destroyed by the Worldbreak spell

worldbreak also destroys palaces....

 

[scutarii]

Illians definitely need later one WW reduction buliding, after the draw ritual, WW kills my economy ( and therefore everything) more than any enemy could...

AI explores dungeons and werewolves kill civilizations, usually I have to take turn back, open WB and delete werewolves.

 

[spaceman98]

A thought: Is it intentional that recon units like scouts, rangers, and relevantly for the early game, lizardmen, have no promotion pathway to counter them?

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

yes, it's always been that way

 

[Calavente]

to be even clearer :

it was one of the strategic decision from the original designer of FFH: you cannot counter recon units....

 

[spaceman98]

Fair enough. Its annoying to be beleaguered by lizardmen early game, but I understand that their un-counterability gives them strategic depth, and the lizardmen are survivable (well at least for me as the Grigori they are because of my adventurer. I haven't been in quite the same lizard-infested situation as any other civ)

 

[shahballs]

I guess that it could take into account if it is going to attack fully or not, and plan to use suicide units or not accordingly.

That's a good solution but I think it's better to limit the amount of experience gainable from fighting spells and summons, similar to what happens with barbarians. Maybe 20xp from level 1spells, 30xp from 1 and 2 combined, and 50 from level 3 creatures (like wraiths) and 1 and 2 combined. At the moment my defenders are gaining 100+xp from puppets and ghouls. The AI should still attack but not make me stronger by doing so. Also sometimes they may benefit more from keeping their summons in defense rather than suiciding them, that's where your idea could come in very handy.

Other issues and questions:

Bannor are ready to capitulate but they can't negotiate because in crusade, and won't come out, so they're wiped out.

Vassal States producing random civilisations instead of a new leader from the same civilisation.

Is there a reason why we can't trade food between cities like in Civ 2? It's strange to have a city in starvation when hooked up to the trade network.

On a related note, could loss of population through starvation trigger damage to defenders? This could encourage real sieges where attackers intentionally cut off food to weaken the defense.

Is there a reason Illians can't build more than 3 Priests of Winter?

Can we have reduced diplomatic penalties for declaring war in retaliation to a world spell, for example Infernal stealing a city?

Sometimes I want to protect AI A from AI B, but A won't grant me open borders, so I need to declare war on A in order to enter his land and protect him. It's a messed up situation. Can we negotiate a 'passage of war', where I declare war on B in return for A giving me open borders until his own war with B is over?

For the issue with freezing/ holding spells, what about a counter-spell that cancels them out completely or increases the chance of resistance?

Technology trading and culture flips missing from the game.

I can't buy cities from my vassals (they can still buy mine).

I know the AI doesn't have a 'memory' for enemies outside of view, but for fixed dangers like Acheron it should! Again and again they bring stacks to attack me, pass them through Acheron's range, and are destroyed within 2 turns of entering because they don't even turn back. They should recognise and remember the danger from the first encounter and never return to it (unless they're truly ready).

 

[spaceman98]

"Technology trading and culture flips missing from the game."

I think that's because your using the default settings. Go into Custom Settings and find "no tech trading" and "no tech brokering" and deselect those and you'll get tech trading back

 

[lfgr]

Bannor are ready to capitulate but they can't negotiate because in crusade, and won't come out, so they're wiped out.

Personally I think it's quite flavorful that the Bannors rather die than surrender.

Vassal States producing random civilisations instead of a new leader from the same civilisation.

Are you talking about puppet states or freed colonies (not sure whether the latter even exists in FfH)?

Is there a reason why we can't trade food between cities like in Civ 2? It's strange to have a city in starvation when hooked up to the trade network.

On a related note, could loss of population through starvation trigger damage to defenders? This could encourage real sieges where attackers intentionally cut off food to weaken the defense.

These are both huge changes that are most probably out of scope for this mod.

Is there a reason Illians can't build more than 3 Priests of Winter?

It has always bin that way in FfH. Balance, flavor, make them feel unique.

Can we have reduced diplomatic penalties for declaring war in retaliation to a world spell, for example Infernal stealing a city?

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but you're not talking about automatic war declarations, right? Then it would be probably too hard to track down what exactly is a "retaliation" war and what is not (and that information would have to be presented to the player).

Sometimes I want to protect AI A from AI B, but A won't grant me open borders, so I need to declare war on A in order to enter his land and protect him. It's a messed up situation. Can we negotiate a 'passage of war', where I declare war on B in return for A giving me open borders until his own war with B is over?

What do you propose exactly? AIs under pressure being more likely to negotate open borders with you?

I know the AI doesn't have a 'memory' for enemies outside of view, but for fixed dangers like Acheron it should! Again and again they bring stacks to attack me, pass them through Acheron's range, and are destroyed within 2 turns of entering because they don't even turn back. They should recognise and remember the danger from the first encounter and never return to it (unless they're truly ready).

Extramodmod takes almost all it's AI changes from MNAI, so you should post your AI suggestions in the Feature Requests thread. But as that particular suggestion is pretty complicated and probably only useful in a handful of cases, I doubt it will be implemented anytime soon, sorry.

 

[spaceman98]

"Are you talking about puppet states or freed colonies (not sure whether the latter even exists in FfH)?"

they do, I've done it

 

[shahballs]

Personally I think it's quite flavorful that the Bannors rather die than surrender.

You might be right, but then the game should stop telling me they're ready to capitulate.

Are you talking about puppet states or freed colonies (not sure whether the latter even exists in FfH)?

Puppet states. I haven't seen the latter in the game and don't know what it is.

These are both huge changes that are most probably out of scope for this mod.

No harm in asking

It has always bin that way in FfH. Balance, flavor, make them feel unique.

Fair enough

I'm not entirely sure how it works, but you're not talking about automatic war declarations, right? Then it would be probably too hard to track down what exactly is a "retaliation" war and what is not (and that information would have to be presented to the player).

For example, if Hypo steals my city, I have a one turn window of reduced penalty to declare.

What do you propose exactly? AIs under pressure being more likely to negotate open borders with you?

Not a bad idea. But I was thinking of a trade option. I declare war in return for military right of passage (no passage for settlers and no trade). The right only lasts as long as we're both at war with the other party.

Extramodmod takes almost all it's AI changes from MNAI, so you should post your AI suggestions in the Feature Requests thread. But as that particular suggestion is pretty complicated and probably only useful in a handful of cases, I doubt it will be implemented anytime soon, sorry.

Fair enough but it's not as limited as you think. There are several features with fixed defenders or enemy generation on contact. Even spiders are fixed. I'm only suggesting the AI treats them as permanently visible after discovering them. If the AI gets a new look at the position and the situation has changed (spider killed or more mages with Acheron for example) it will update it's map.

Another suggestion. Sanctifying hell terrain in a large empire is very time consuming and boring. Can you make it so hell can't return to a square for a minimum of 15 turns after sanctification?

 

[shahballs]

Other ideas

What about a spell to create hell? It can destroy enemy forests and create hell resources.

Sheut stone wiki needs an update to explain its bonus to units.

Does the hell pillar resource do anything? If so it too needs a wiki update.

More intelligent behaviour from Orthus and the 4 horsemen, making them withdraw instead of suiciding, and come back again when stronger. Maybe even the ability to build a fort where other barbs can spawn to support them. The stronger the players become the more they can recruit.

Is there a reason why pyre zombies can't upgrade to Eidolons when Sheaim warriors can? Other undead like drowned can too.

Is there a reason only melees can have guardsman promo? I can upgrade a guardsman warrior into a guardsman archer, but I can't train an archer and make him a guardsman. For sheaim this is particularly annoying, I only have zombies to block marksmen.

Marksmen getting to choose the unit they attack from the whole stack, not just choosing between the strongest and weakest.

The ability to turn hidden nationality and invisibility back on after they are removed. For HN the unit would need to be out of sight of other players to do this.

HN units made unable to stand in same square as your other units. When they're stacked together it's obvious they belong to you because most players can't stack with barbarians.

HN units made able to board your ships as enemy can't see what your ships are carrying anyway. If they unboard in sight of another player their nationality will be revealed.

The names of the three hill giants made invisible to other players- so nobody knows if they are barbarian or player made. Also the game not announcing which player made the pact of the nilhorn. This way they're truly hidden nationality.

Reduced WW or none at all for defeated summons and undead.

A new unhappiness factor when an undead unit like a zombie or drown is produced, as it means somebody's son has been murdered, eg 0.25 unhappiness for 10 turns in the city where the unit was made. Would necessitate spreading production between different cities and diversifying armies.

I find drowns and stygians very ugly, and not at all resembling ex-humans. I think a model closer to the pyre zombie and eidolon is better.

A new mechanic when Calabim or Sheaim cities are captured by good players. Wouldn't the people celebrate being liberated instead of rioting?

Is there a reason why rioting cities can't starve? This makes them immune to blight among other things. How about stopping all hammers, commerce and pop or culture growth; but enabling the city radius, food production, and starvation?

Allowing ships at least some defensive strength when caught in cities. The crews of ships were tough guys and used to terrorise land lubbers all the time.

Allow hunter with water promo to defend stack of ships and capture sea animals.

 

[spaceman98]

"Is there a reason why rioting cities can't starve? This makes them immune to blight among other things. How about stopping all hammers, commerce and pop or culture growth; but enabling the city radius, food production, and starvation? "


heh. Based on this I just discovered the optimal solution to the Plague Armageddon event: Immediately switch to slavery. Your cities won't starve while your in anarchy, and then after you exit anarchy, since those people are going to starve anyway, why not whip them into something useful?

anyway the reason why cities can't starve while rioting is because if they could then they would almost always starve to one or two pop, because they cannot work tiles while rioting.

"A new mechanic when Calabim or Sheaim cities are captured by good players. Wouldn't the people celebrate being liberated instead of rioting? "

Sheaim people are people who either agree with the Sheaim worldview, hope to benefit from the Sheaim, are slaves, or are undead or extraplanar outsiders. Of these, the slaves would great the liberators, but the others wouldn't, and from the liberator's POV, there would be a lot of purging of evil magic and such to do, which could also be represented by the riot period. Oh also, Sheaim aren't always "evil" as far as the game alignment system goes. I'm currently fighting "Good" aligned Sheaim who founded Order and instantly converted to it. Their still the same pyre-zombieing, AC-raising Sheaim we all know and "love" but according to the game their "Good" aligned because their an Order civ.

regarding the Calabim, a lot of fictional vampires have supernatural means to control their slaves. I've always assumed that's part of why their populance is loyal.

"A new unhappiness factor when an undead unit like a zombie or drown is produced, as it means somebody's son has been murdered, eg 0.25 unhappiness for 10 turns in the city where the unit was made. Would necessitate spreading production between different cities and diversifying armies."

If we do this, Octopus Overlords and the Sheaim would need serious buffs. it would be tough to balance for little gain IMO

___________

Agreed with everything you said re Hidden Nationality units
________________

Agreed on Orthus. Minor barbs should also follow him, rather than continuing to wander, that way he can actually lead an army and keep cities he conquers.

 

[spaceman98]

A python exception:

Minister Koun felt it. Capria felt it. Everyone felt it. When Hyboream entered the world, something truly terrifying happened. The very fabric of reality was, ever so briefly, torn assunder, and the naked code that underlied the world was, however momentarily exposed. No mortal could comprehend the terrifying words that flashed through all of their minds, the maddening gibbering that signaled the coming of a cruel god. No one knew its meaning, nor could anyone be certain of its cause, but nonetheless it was a signal. The compact was broken. The Sheaim, in their stupid bid to restore lost land and national glory, had done the unthinkable. Hyboream was here, and he was here to rule.

_________

and then due to another glitch I made peace with him immediately. Apparently if you click "there shall be peace in our time" with a civ your at war with on spawn, and then start randomly clicking "lets bury the hatchet" and "lets make a deal" the AI will peace out... somehow