ExtraModMod

[[to_xp]Gekko]

I like wildmana style governor manors, 1 hammer per two unhappy under the happycap and two hammer per unhappy above the happycap. encourages building huge cities for feasting instead of "free hammers" .

I also like wildmana style purity counter making monks stronger, with counter rising with low AC, good civics and religions and buildings. builder playstyle that rewards you with powerful units.

 

[Tasunke]

I like wildmana style governor manors, 1 hammer per two unhappy under the happycap and two hammer per unhappy above the happycap. encourages building huge cities for feasting instead of "free hammers" .

I also like wildmana style purity counter making monks stronger, with counter rising with low AC, good civics and religions and buildings. builder playstyle that rewards you with powerful units.

Did Wildmana Governor Manors really work that way? Because that, my friend, would be epic

Then leave Pillar of Chains unchanged (1 per unhappy both under and over) ... have it stack with Gov Manor .... and VOILA!

Anyways, I think that'd be cool

It might make the Vamps a tad less overpowered in the Hammers department of course .... but if they build the Pillar of Chains they could then have at least ONE city that's even slightly greater than the previous OPnes ... but balanced in that its a wonder anyone can get, and that only one city can build it.

MEANWHILE, the previous incarnation of Gov Manor seems to be more cheese than not xD

-------------

If we are able to implement this ... then its possible that we should add -20% city maintenance to Dungeons ...

(since courthouses are 40 and Manors are 20, would make maxes of 60 and 40, rather than maxes of 40 and 20). -> I could forsee this change making Basilicas seem too weak, so I would propose also giving Basilicas +100% production with Law Mana if we made the dungeon change.

I propose this because .... having only 20% maintenance for Gov manors sucks, and if we nerf Gov Manors to the more flavorful wildmana method, we should give some sort of indirect 'buff' ... and giving Dungeons (for everyone) -20% maintenance is just the thing imho ... partially closing the maintenance cost gap. This would also make Dungeons the mechanical equal of Gov Manors when you strip away the anger production ... at -25% war weariness and -20% maintenance.

However, if we DONT do ANY of the maintenance changes proposed ... then at the least Dungeons should be -50% war weariness to make them worth building. At their current costs, a simple -25% is too weak. Therefore I think Dungeons should be either -25%/-20% or a solid -50%WW

And I just so happen to think that a -25/-20 approach would be more appropriate if we are going to rightfully nerf the Gov Manors.

 

[Terkhen]

....aaaaand damages everyone, including friends and foes and if neutral units are at range, it gives DoW warning before casting....this is a flood for gods sake and floods do not make choices... (maybe to exclude from "friendly fire" drowns and stygian guards ?)

Tsunami should hit everyone already, except those standing in the tile in which the caster is. Maybe it could just hit anyone who does not have the ability to walk over water or fly. That would make OO units immune to it, and also creates a few ways to ignore the spell (adopt OO, Mages with Water II, Lanun war tortoises, Luchuirp golems when/if they get water walking and so on).

Jesus. Crush is on of OP-ed thing in the Erebus and by using this spell alone you can win ridicuously easely otherwisely against of impossible odds. It even hits invisible units... And dvarfs already have the best collateral damage maschines....

in my opinion for "crush" suits best this description "affects only physical living units" (humans, dvarves, etc)- not summons, illusions, undead, nonliving (angels), elementals etc. I'd give to golems some resistance vs crush and tsunami....

And still "one hit wonder" effect for user...

Test at the worldbuilder....if you do not believe in me...

As I mentioned, Crush and Pillar of Fire are identical except that Crush makes physical damage and that Pillar of Fire can create smoke. And I know quite well how great Pillar of Fire can be (see our discussions about Chalid and Priors). Crush may need to increase its lower damage cap because physical is far more difficult to resist than fire, but otherwise all decisions made for one of the spells should apply to the other too.

Being able to hit invisible units seems like a bug to me..

Making it affect only living units does not make much sense to me. The spell seems to be crushing opponents with earth or rocks; not alive units would feel that too.

The Luchuirp could get a new building that gives them Magic Resistance. It should have high requirements, though.

If any spell is made into a "one hit wonder" the result will IMO be that no one uses it. I have only used Mind III once (just to try it) and it is something that gives a permanent benefit. I doubt that anyone would consider the investment in dwarven druids if their damage spell was something to use just once.

It could get a fix like the one planned for the Pillar of Fire problems: the spell could require an additional technology.

Make mounted mercenaries more expensive, add + 50%: they are faster, withrawal chance, stronger, etc.

I increased the cost for the owner from 180 to 200, and for others from 200 to 300. I think that the cost for others is balanced, and I don't want to make mercenaries too expensive for the Hippus. It's their thing

I love most of the propositions in the 'to-do-list', but I'm inclined to follow most of the comments above to perfect it. (estp tasunke's)

Thanks

however, IMO "crush" is not OP ... it is a High-priest spell, It should be powerful. And IIRC, the damage is not SO big.. the main effects being : de-fortifying units / destroying buildings.
The pillar of flame damage is greater IMO.

Crush is the Dwarven druid spell, and it is roughly the equal of Pillar of Fire. Are you confusing it with Earthquake?

for luirchips : earth mana building should at leastgive 1FS and not a FS chance... chances are boring and completly unbalanced effects. one FS is already not much, but a meager chance of it...; iirk. (that's why I always dislike the current drill I promotion...)

Agreed.

normally mithril is imprevious to the rust spell (at least it was in FFH ; maybe MnAI changed that ?)

Rust has always affected Mithril for me and I started playing directly with MNAI after a few OOS ridden games in vanilla FFH2, so that may be true.

For Auric: what about a +30% heal at end of turn (or at beginning of turn?)...
IMO, a rush with many minions should be a way to swarm him. but +30%heal after combat will condemn that possibility as any unit that make a dent in him (1%damage) will be for nothing as the unit heals 30%...

or make it 5% heal...it is already much has he has great strength.

You are right, swarming Auric should be a proper strategy to delay him a bit. The "If Auric is defeated without using the Godslayer he will stay at 10% health instead of dying" addition should be enough.

For elohim monks - I guess the easiest way are "special promotions" - after combat or must meet prerequisites. Varios "karate strikes" - depends on levels - early level strikes "one hit wonders" and high level strikes as permanent promos.

I also like wildmana style purity counter making monks stronger, with counter rising with low AC, good civics and religions and buildings. builder playstyle that rewards you with powerful units.

lfgr and I have been discussing about monks a lot. You can read the discussion in its proposal task: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issue/112/elohim-monks#comment-5743748

As mentioned in that discussion, I prefer a solution that the AI can understand easily and/or does not need to understand because it'll be doing it anyways.

 

[Terkhen]

I like wildmana style governor manors, 1 hammer per two unhappy under the happycap and two hammer per unhappy above the happycap. encourages building huge cities for feasting instead of "free hammers".

Did Wildmana Governor Manors really work that way? Because that, my friend, would be epic

I agree, this solution seems perfect. It encourages huge cities and it gives the player something to consider when deciding to feast on them; it is not a brainless strategy anymore.

Then leave Pillar of Chains unchanged (1 per unhappy both under and over) ... have it stack with Gov Manor .... and VOILA!

Anyways, I think that'd be cool

It might make the Vamps a tad less overpowered in the Hammers department of course .... but if they build the Pillar of Chains they could then have at least ONE city that's even slightly greater than the previous OPnes ... but balanced in that its a wonder anyone can get, and that only one city can build it.

MEANWHILE, the previous incarnation of Gov Manor seems to be more cheese than not xD.

I don't remember changing the Pillar of Chains at all.

If we are able to implement this ... then its possible that we should add -20% city maintenance to Dungeons ...

(since courthouses are 40 and Manors are 20, would make maxes of 60 and 40, rather than maxes of 40 and 20). -> I could forsee this change making Basilicas seem too weak, so I would propose also giving Basilicas +100% production with Law Mana if we made the dungeon change.

I propose this because .... having only 20% maintenance for Gov manors sucks, and if we nerf Gov Manors to the more flavorful wildmana method, we should give some sort of indirect 'buff' ... and giving Dungeons (for everyone) -20% maintenance is just the thing imho ... partially closing the maintenance cost gap. This would also make Dungeons the mechanical equal of Gov Manors when you strip away the anger production ... at -25% war weariness and -20% maintenance.

However, if we DONT do ANY of the maintenance changes proposed ... then at the least Dungeons should be -50% war weariness to make them worth building. At their current costs, a simple -25% is too weak. Therefore I think Dungeons should be either -25%/-20% or a solid -50%WW

And I just so happen to think that a -25/-20 approach would be more appropriate if we are going to rightfully nerf the Gov Manors.

I think that the Mannors are fine with -20%; they give a nice benefit that is better than the lost -20%. In warmongering games I always build dungeons because even a -25% is quite noticeable. I'm not sure why Dungeons need a buff, or why a way to reduce Maintenance further is required for all civs.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

pillar of chains does not stack with the current govmanor mechanic, but it might stack with the new one which would be fitting considering the pillar is in the Calabim capital in the lore

 

[scutarii]

lfgr and I have been discussing about monks a lot.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=367370

Ask from Pazyryk permission ( just in case...) and...

 

[Tasunke]

pillar of chains does not stack with the current govmanor mechanic, but it might stack with the new one which would be fitting considering the pillar is in the Calabim capital in the lore

Exactly. Hopefully, once we fix Governors Manors, the effects should correctly stack. Pillar of Chains by itself, as stated earlier, does not need to be fixed in any way shape or form

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

units with a betrayal chance are working as intended, if you delete them they go barb immediately. this is to avoid abusing moroi burning blood.

 

[Terkhen]

pillar of chains does not stack with the current govmanor mechanic, but it might stack with the new one which would be fitting considering the pillar is in the Calabim capital in the lore

Exactly. Hopefully, once we fix Governors Manors, the effects should correctly stack. Pillar of Chains by itself, as stated earlier, does not need to be fixed in any way shape or form

Oh, I understand what you mean now. The Governor's mannor new effect will probably require two new XML tags for buildings, iUnhappyProductionAboveCap and iUnhappyProductionBelowCap. bUnhappyProduction would be reserved for more powerful stuff like wonders, and therefore it would make sense to let them stack between them.

http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=367370

Ask from Pazyryk permission ( just in case...) and...

That looks cool, but it is far more complicated than what I had in mind. It also seems that the AI would not be able to make use of that system.

units with a betrayal chance are working as intended, if you delete them they go barb immediately. this is to avoid abusing moroi burning blood.

That makes a lot of sense. I closed issue #118.

EDIT: Does anyone have suggestions for specific artwork for mercenaries when they are from the following races? I would prefer to avoid duplicating artwork if possible

Dark elven mercenaries use the Svartalfar Swordsman artwork.

Demon mercenaries use the Infernal Axeman artwork.

Dwarven mercenaries use the Khazad Axeman artwork.

Elven mercenaries use the Ljosalfar Swordsman artwork.

Nomad mercenaries use the Malakim Swordsman artwork.

Orcish mercenaries use the Orc Axeman artwork.

Winterborn mercenaries use the default mercenary artwork.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

careful with reducing religious victory treshold too much, it's pretty luck based and 70% could give too many undeserved wins. consider 78 or 75 instead.

The current implementation of barbarian behaviour is lame, they all gang up on a single player even if he's very far. wildmana was far superior in this department, see if you can take a look at the code there it also got rid of the gamey bts code where if you place a unit in the wilderness no barbs can spawn in a 5 tile square around it.

 

[Terkhen]

I know. I'm just saying that it is quite weird. Given that both options seem wrong to me I prefer to not modify it. Do the assassins at least appear with the Esus religion and the steward promotion?

I misremembered the Steward of Esus promotion. Mere Assassins with Esus do not get it (only Shadows) so I'm going to switch the Fervor spell to produce Nightwatches instead. They are no disciples either but since they get the Steward of Esus promotion they are at least more tied to the religion.

careful with reducing religious victory treshold too much, it's pretty luck based and 70% could give too many undeserved wins. consider 78 or 75 instead.

I edited the issue to set it at 75% instead.

The current implementation of barbarian behaviour is lame, they all gang up on a single player even if he's very far. wildmana was far superior in this department, see if you can take a look at the code there it also got rid of the gamey bts code where if you place a unit in the wilderness no barbs can spawn in a 5 tile square around it.

I have no idea on how to modify the barbarian AI to do that. I can do small fixes to make the AI understand my changes in the best way I can, but big, general AI improvements are outside of my plans.

 

[Tasunke]

Questions about the Code ....

So regarding the AC, which may eventually get somewhat of an overhaul a few versions down the road ... what is the extent we can make it affect building requirements? Currently we have lower AC thresholds for end-game avatars ... but could we have upper AC thresholds as well? (can only build if AC is lower than 30) for instance. And what about buildings? Can we have certain buildings require a certain AC (either as upper or lower threshold?)

Might not be relevant until we have Gone to Hell and Savior victories but ... still ... it would be interesting to see what is currently possible in the code, and what Terkhen is able to add as well, without reducing code efficiency of course.

 

[Terkhen]

Questions about the Code ....

So regarding the AC, which may eventually get somewhat of an overhaul a few versions down the road ... what is the extent we can make it affect building requirements? Currently we have lower AC thresholds for end-game avatars ... but could we have upper AC thresholds as well? (can only build if AC is lower than 30) for instance. And what about buildings? Can we have certain buildings require a certain AC (either as upper or lower threshold?)

Might not be relevant until we have Gone to Hell and Savior victories but ... still ... it would be interesting to see what is currently possible in the code, and what Terkhen is able to add as well, without reducing code efficiency of course.

Low AC and high AC requirements for buildings, units and projects are certainly possible and should not be very complicated. They will be added if any of the new features or suggestions require them.

Edit: I formatted the list of planned proposals. You can check it here: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/wiki/Proposals

 

[lfgr]

It seems you didn't merge events enhanced correctly; you just merged it with your version of events enhanced, not with the default branch (I noticed I'm still getting popups with AIAutoplay after updating extramodmod)
EDIT: Nevermind, I saw you just did it.

 

[Terkhen]

It seems you didn't merge events enhanced correctly; you just merged it with your version of events enhanced, not with the default branch (I noticed I'm still getting popups with AIAutoplay after updating extramodmod)

Sorry, yesterday I only did the pull; I wasn't able to finish the complete merge. The ExtraModMod - Events Enhanced merge takes a long time because Mercurial messes it up completely. My guess is that it gets confused because of the different MNAI parent revisions that we have (they should be identical, but hgsubversion seems to create them differently). Therefore I can't trust the automatic merge (the merge errors you reported were caused by it) and I have to do it nearly line by line. I finished the merge earlier today; I guess that you pulled before I finished it.

I have been running a few test games already with no issues so far. The "no popups with AIAutoplay" has been a lifesaver, thanks

The only issue that remains is the recently reported #126. Once that I fix it and do a few more test games, 0.3.1 will be released (I'm guessing tomorrow).

 

[Terkhen]

The version 0.3.1 of ExtraModMod is now available. This release is meant for fixing all found issues found in 0.3.0, along with a few changes and improvements. You can find the detailed changelog below.

Spoiler :

ExtraModMod v0.3.1

More Naval AI version: r1556 (pre 2.51)

Features

• Lightbringers can earn free XP from promotions.
• Paramanders are reduced from 6/8 combat strength to 4/6. They can now use Bronze, Iron and Mithril weapons. They start with Iron weapons and with Dwarven.
• Soldiers of Kilmorph can only use Bronze and Iron weapons.

Changes

• Many improvements and changes to events from Events Enhanced.
• Heal can also cure blindness.
• Crush tweaked from 50 damage with a cap of 75 to 30 damage with a cap of 50.
• Doviello Beastmen can now be converted directly to Battlemasters.
• The Illians now have a slightly more clear culture colour.
• The Fervor Worldspell now creates Nightwatches instead of Assassins if the player is following the Council of Esus.
• Cassiel now starts as Adaptive, Charismatic and Philosophical.
• Capria is back to Industrious and Spiritual.
• Einion is now Philosophical and Spiritual.
• Thessalonica is now Charismatic and Industrious.

Fixes

• Corrected the prerrequisites for Labyrinth.
• Creation II was not working correctly.
• Many fixes to events from Events Enhanced.
• Blinding light now causes a temporal "Blinded" promotion.
• Pillar of Fire and Crush can no longer target hidden plots.
• Pillar of Fire and Crush no longer take into account invisible units when deciding what stack to target.
• Paramanders no longer get extra metal promotions.
• The Draw disables diplomacy with enemies for all members of the Illian team, and not only for the Illian player.
• When the Infernals are vassals, Hyborem's Whisper no longer can be used to steal cities from their master.
• Wild Hunt no longer creates wolves from ships or from units that are aboard ships.
• Having the Doviello in the game will no longer trigger a popup at the beginning of the game.
• Mobius Witches can now appear with knowledge of the three extra spheres.
• Fixed a few problems with the new events.
• Kandros was not changed to Financial and Organized.
• Mistforms are now recon units. They start with Marksman.
• Creative increases Reliquaries building speed.
• Citizens' Forum builds faster with Organized instead of Philosophical.
• Stone gives a bonus to building speed to Citizens' Forum and Reliquaries.

More Naval AI changes

• AI conquest groups should prioritize attacking cities.
• AI less likely to set units with bonuses for attacking cities as city defense
• Auric Ascended Snowfall is now called Greater Snowfall.
• Puppet states updated to v1.4.
• Attitude icons in the scoreboard are updated after attitude changes from events.
• Minor issue when checking state religions in the gifting of units.
• Tweaks to how the AI considers which civic to use.
• AI will now take into account war weariness when deciding if it should end a war.
• AI power calculations are now more precise.
• Spells that require a building to be casted will now be castable by teammates.
• Diplomatic Victory option.
• Fix for crash when boarding units attack cities where the only defenders are naval units.
• Summoners will now be re-associated with their Summons after Conversion.
• River of Blood now affects size 2 cities.
• More Worldbuilder updates.
• Fixed a few out-of-date civic strategy texts.
• Blur no longer grants immunity to Defensive Strikes.
• AI should no longer pursue culture victories (too difficult for the current AI to actually win a culture victory).
• AI should be more interested in founding near Mana and researching magic techs when pursuing a Tower victory.
• Loosened some artificial restrictions that were forcing the AI to spread cities out more.
• Tweaks to how the AI decides whether or not to bombard cities.
• AI should no longer try to broker peace when one of the parties is a Vassal.
• Player will now receive a message when a unit with hidden nationality kills a Worker or Settler.
• Raider units will once again be able to pillage enemy roads
• Baby Spiders now have a 20% chance to grow into a Giant Spider after combat (was 2%).
• Mistforms AI set to UNITAI_ANIMAL.
• getMinLevel() is now exposed to python.
• Selected unit graphic is now moved back to its original position
• changeStolenVisibilityTimer() now properly exposed to python.
• A unit flagged with the UpgradeOutsideBorders tag will now be able to upgrade anywhere if the upgrade unit requires a building so long as the owner has one of those buildings (previously it was only checking the closest city).
• Liches now set to max 4 per player rather than 3 per team.
• BUG Unit Naming option will no longer throw errors when a Beast unit is build.
• Fix for a potential assert error.
• Updates to the Enhanced World Builder from MC.
• When selecting techs, the AI will no longer value units which have a non-matching <PrereqAlignment>.
• Enclaves will no longer spawn Demagogs during Crusade.

In the first post you can find the links for download, wiki, feedback, plans and other useful information.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

great job as usual!

 

[lfgr]

Sorry, yesterday I only did the pull; I wasn't able to finish the complete merge. The ExtraModMod - Events Enhanced merge takes a long time because Mercurial messes it up completely. My guess is that it gets confused because of the different MNAI parent revisions that we have (they should be identical, but hgsubversion seems to create them differently). Therefore I can't trust the automatic merge (the merge errors you reported were caused by it) and I have to do it nearly line by line. I finished the merge earlier today; I guess that you pulled before I finished it.

It may be related to the fact you are now using the default branch for extramodmod. Your revision graph is a bit strange when displaying my MNAI merges. Did you also have that problems before?

EDIT: Because the MNAI version seem to have the same hex label (I guess it's the checksum?), and we even were at the same MNAI version if I read correctly.

Great to see 0.3.1 is out.

 

[[to_xp]Gekko]

cvspellinterface.py : Rally worldspell still converts enclaves to towns

also lizardmen druids still missing entangle

 

[Terkhen]

great job as usual!

Thanks

It may be related to the fact you are now using the default branch for extramodmod. Your revision graph is a bit strange when displaying my MNAI merges. Did you also have that problems before?

EDIT: Because the MNAI version seem to have the same hex label (I guess it's the checksum?), and we even were at the same MNAI version if I read correctly.

My issues have been the same since the first merge, and it happened the same in the extramodmod-events_enhanced merges and in latest default-events_enhanced merge. Maybe I'm doing the merge incorrectly. You can try what happens by pulling the latest ExtraModMod, pulling the events_enhanced branch from its repository merging ExtraModMod's events_enhanced branch with the remote branch and then merging the default branch with the local events_enhanced branch from TortoiseHG's workbench. The same 50 files with unresolved conflicts appear, and the conflicts are always the same in each merge.

Great to see 0.3.1 is out.

Thanks

cvspellinterface.py : Rally worldspell still converts enclaves to towns

It's the first time I have heard about that issue. Can you ellaborate on what happens?

also lizardmen druids still missing entangle

Yes. IIRC I mentioned that I would adopt whichever fix Tholal decides to use. As a general rule, if I don't mention that I opened an issue in the tracker for a bug report or suggestion, it's not going to be included.

EDIT: Sorry, it seems that I forgot to mention this