ExtraModMod
- Thread starter Terkhen
- Start date
no issue there.
I thought that was somehow the answer... which is worse than what I feared... compile a DLL is currently out of my competency
Compiling the DLL is relatively simple, you only have to follow Asaf's guide to compile the DLL. ExtraModMod Makefile is very similar to the one in there, except that you will need to create a Makefile-Vars file with the path to your tools and place it in your CvGameCoreDLL. ExtraModMod source code includes a sample Makefile-Vars file to simplify this.
I only know of the old and hard way of running the game with them to see if they are wrong. There must be some simple tools that validate that tag opening and closing are correct, but I'm not sure if tools that validate them against their schemas exist.
[to_xp]Gekko;12868719 said:
IMO Great Commanders were too hard to get before, and Great Generals felt like their weaker cousins. The current speed seems right to me. There are no Great General GPP in ExtraModMod; all of the building that used to generate Great Commander points either lost them or got another effect as a replacement.
[to_xp]Gekko;12868719 said:
The command post mechanic always felt weird to me, so this idea could be given some consideration. It's one of the unique mechanics of FFH and gives Organized a good unique ability, though.
Suggestions to tweak the GG rate are welcome, but IMO having two units with too similar roles is counter intuitive and does not help the game much. I'm not planning to do separate versions of ExtraModMod myself, but since it is based on Mercurial anyone can branch it and easily create his own custom version of ExtraModMod.
Thank you for the report! I have pushed a fix to the repository and it will be included in 0.4.0.
Slow. Real life has gotten in the way of development a lot lately (for good reasons, though
) so I'm not progressing as fast as I wanted. I managed to scratch some time this morning but I don't know when I'll be able to finish the rest of the stuff planned for 0.4.0. I'm in no hurry, though, as 0.4.0 should also include at least a partial merge of BarbsPlus.I'm happy to report positive results with my recent Sheaim changes
I think I'm only one or two test games away from giving a full report and code suggestions.
Ok
![[to_xp]Gekko](https://civfanatics-data.community.forum/avatars/m/74/74677.jpg?1475248346){kind=avatar}
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
I don't want to remove command posts, just remove the ability to build them from great commanders. right now they're plentiful, which makes the organized trait weaker than intended. although if possible I'd keep the command post ability on the commanders you get by being the first to get to a tech, I like the race to military strategy
Given that there are a lot of leaders, the discussion will probably be more fruitful if you start a new thread in which the topic does not change all the time(specially if you plan an indepth thread like the last ones you did in the strategy subforum, they were very interesting BTW
). Lately I feel that they are somewhat balanced but that both the balance and the entertaintment factor of leader/civilization combos could be improved. Therefore, feedback is very welcome [to_xp]Gekko;12875675 said:I don't want to remove command posts, just remove the ability to build them from great commanders. right now they're plentiful, which makes the organized trait weaker than intended. although if possible I'd keep the command post ability on the commanders you get by being the first to get to a tech, I like the race to military strategy
Spliiting GC-s to GG-s is uneccessary micromanagenet, and to buff organized - I'd give inflation reduction bonus. -30% for instance. Inflation is the biggest expenditure usually anyway.
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
problem is, command posts are supposed to be rare ( unless you are organized of course ) . with the current mechanic you end up having command posts everywhere, which is essentially the same as not having command posts at all.
having the great commanders you get from techs be the only ones that can build command posts does not increase micromanagement at all, it just keeps the free GG from being moot.
having the great commanders you get from techs be the only ones that can build command posts does not increase micromanagement at all, it just keeps the free GG from being moot.
I'm with gekko here, make CP more rare but give a spell to those gained at the techs (or something) and have them able to build the building. Organized already has a economic boost, let it have its military back (and IME civic cost is the greatest).
I *would* say that perhaps I would prefer Terkhen's approach, at least at first.
That is not to say how things are now, but rather to have Civics modify the 'rate of aquisition' of GG points.
As an addendum, having the base rate be perhaps somewhat reduced compared to what it currently is. Say, Current Rate should be (new rate +25%) from civics.
Having only the Tech-based GG's allowed to build Command Posts is an interesting idea ... although I'm not fully sure tbh. I'd have the same level of certainty to give Law3 to just the tech based GGs. I'd prefer to tweak the rate of aquisition rather than the unit itself, at least at first.
( Although ... having tons of GGs for units, and only a rare few that can build posts and create Golden Ages ... its an interesting concept )
That is not to say how things are now, but rather to have Civics modify the 'rate of aquisition' of GG points.
As an addendum, having the base rate be perhaps somewhat reduced compared to what it currently is. Say, Current Rate should be (new rate +25%) from civics.
Having only the Tech-based GG's allowed to build Command Posts is an interesting idea ... although I'm not fully sure tbh. I'd have the same level of certainty to give Law3 to just the tech based GGs. I'd prefer to tweak the rate of aquisition rather than the unit itself, at least at first.
( Although ... having tons of GGs for units, and only a rare few that can build posts and create Golden Ages ... its an interesting concept
)
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
could Corlindale be immune to stoneskin? str 0 units are immune to marksman and stoneskin removes that asset
For the planar gate spawns of the Sheaim. Below is what must be done (imho).
iAC = CyGame().getGlobalCounter()
iMax = 1.1 + 0.03 * iAC + ( iAC / 70 )**3
iMult = 1 + 0.02 * (iAC - 5) + ( iAC / 90 )**6
This is the best course of action in terms of both functionality and processing speed. Its only slightly slower (I never noticed it), but it gives far greater functionality for the Sheaim.
These are the only changes 'technically' needed. But I would also suggest certain changes to the Spawnlist Roster
-----------------
Suggestions to the spawn list Roster
Tar Demon -> move from Temple of Veil to 'Walls'
"Furie"(Using Art_def_unit_Assassin_Infernal) replaces Chaos Maurader, move spawn building to Torture Chamber (instead of Carnival)
Furie gets 8/4, 1 move, crazed, and 10% chance to create a Chaos Maurader through combat (melee type)
Torture Chamber (Dungeon UB), in addition to earlier suggestions ... use the 'breeding pit' art for now perhaps, and also, at least in my version, it gives a 50% chance to give 'Tortured Souls' promotion to living Sheaim units newly built within the city. (Which gives a strength bonus equal to AC/2 like Stigmata)
'Demon' racial promotion could require ...
1) Corrupted Spirit tech (the first Ashen Veil tech)
2) level 3 (allowing purchase at level 4+)
3) Tortured Souls promotion
--------> Alternatively you could require the Sundered promotion, which is given to all Sheaim arcane units, as well as a level req.
Additionally I would propose to give Marksman to the Revelers unit. Making them both a revealer of 'shadows' AND a decent unit in their own right.
---> 'see magical invisibility' has always been a part of the Reveler unit, coming directly from their lore. I feel as though adding the Marksman promotion would be both a thematic buff and to give the unit a special niche (that comes up more often).
At gambling houses, they are a bit more expensive tech wise than assassins, and the hammer req. is definitely higher, at least for initial set up. Once the thing is set up, unit availability, as with all spawned units, are rather sporadic, and max units spawned is, as always, limited by the AC (as well as by the number of cities with planar gates).
This suggestion changes them from a See-Invis 'Ranger' into a See-Invis 'Assassin' without a city attack penalty, and without a lower defensive strength.
And that ends my Spawnlist suggestions
iAC = CyGame().getGlobalCounter()
iMax = 1.1 + 0.03 * iAC + ( iAC / 70 )**3
iMult = 1 + 0.02 * (iAC - 5) + ( iAC / 90 )**6
This is the best course of action in terms of both functionality and processing speed. Its only slightly slower (I never noticed it), but it gives far greater functionality for the Sheaim.
These are the only changes 'technically' needed. But I would also suggest certain changes to the Spawnlist Roster
-----------------
Suggestions to the spawn list Roster
Tar Demon -> move from Temple of Veil to 'Walls'
"Furie"(Using Art_def_unit_Assassin_Infernal) replaces Chaos Maurader, move spawn building to Torture Chamber (instead of Carnival)
Furie gets 8/4, 1 move, crazed, and 10% chance to create a Chaos Maurader through combat (melee type)
Torture Chamber (Dungeon UB), in addition to earlier suggestions ... use the 'breeding pit' art for now perhaps, and also, at least in my version, it gives a 50% chance to give 'Tortured Souls' promotion to living Sheaim units newly built within the city. (Which gives a strength bonus equal to AC/2 like Stigmata)
'Demon' racial promotion could require ...
1) Corrupted Spirit tech (the first Ashen Veil tech)
2) level 3 (allowing purchase at level 4+)
3) Tortured Souls promotion
--------> Alternatively you could require the Sundered promotion, which is given to all Sheaim arcane units, as well as a level req.
Additionally I would propose to give Marksman to the Revelers unit. Making them both a revealer of 'shadows' AND a decent unit in their own right.
---> 'see magical invisibility' has always been a part of the Reveler unit, coming directly from their lore. I feel as though adding the Marksman promotion would be both a thematic buff and to give the unit a special niche (that comes up more often).
At gambling houses, they are a bit more expensive tech wise than assassins, and the hammer req. is definitely higher, at least for initial set up. Once the thing is set up, unit availability, as with all spawned units, are rather sporadic, and max units spawned is, as always, limited by the AC (as well as by the number of cities with planar gates).
This suggestion changes them from a See-Invis 'Ranger' into a See-Invis 'Assassin' without a city attack penalty, and without a lower defensive strength.
And that ends my Spawnlist suggestions
[to_xp]Gekko;12875675 said:I don't want to remove command posts, just remove the ability to build them from great commanders. right now they're plentiful, which makes the organized trait weaker than intended. although if possible I'd keep the command post ability on the commanders you get by being the first to get to a tech, I like the race to military strategy
Although this makes sense, I agree with Tasunke in that we should wait until the changes to GG rate via civics created for 0.4.0 are released are tested before addressing this issue.
[to_xp]Gekko;12908141 said:could Corlindale be immune to stoneskin? str 0 units are immune to marksman and stoneskin removes that asset
Although I can't think of any reason against this, I can't think of any simple way of implement it either (I'd prefer to avoid weird python prerrequisites if possible).
Given that the Sheaim always feel somewhat weak and that the Planar Gate feature always seems underwhelming, I agree that the gates need a change. For the sake of making it simpler for everyone to participate in the discussion, I have created a spreadsheet and some charts that compare ExtraModMod current implementation to your suggestion. I think that the change to the maximum units of each type is definitely an improvement (and IMO it should also be modified slightly by map size). ExtraModMod's linear chance of getting new units in each city seems somewhat plain, but the suggestion seems somewhat high in the higher levels of AC. This could be a fitting reward for the Sheaim getting a high AC, though. Once that this gets more discussion we could create an issue with a more defined proposal.
As much as I feel that the chaos marauders are somewhat plain, I'm not going to add any units to ExtraModMod that do not fit in the lore. I don't remember anything in the lore about Furies. I like the Tar Demon moved from Temple of the Veil to Walls and Chaos Marauder moved from Carnival to Torture Chamber suggestions, though. I created a tidied up task for the Torture Chamber with the parts of the proposal I'm considering to include (I'll still have to give Tortured Souls more thought, though).
I also created a proposal for the planar gate tweaks. For now it only includes the building changes, but in the future it will also include the changes to how the Planar Gate spawns units.
I usuallt delete spawninng tar demons, revelers and chaos marauders(free units, no hard feelings) - useless or simply worse than PZs. I'd give to tar demons defensive promotion at least... for chaos marauders - cannibalize and chaos I promotion...
Yea, Chaos marauders usually aren't that great without metals or promos. And iirc they still have a chance to turn barbarian? (or was that removed)
Tar Demons are actually quite effective at defending, however their slow movement forces them to be largely static defenders. Interestingly enough, since Tar Demons are disciple unitcombat, if you choose a Spiritual Leader like Os-Gabella, your TDs start out with 2 movement (but they still can't use roads).
Revelers can default see-Invisible, so without any changes only one is needed for each primary stack .... (so in a smaller game, or in fast turn timer, only one would be needed), but adding Marksman makes them more useful.
Part of what makes Tar Demons a useful defender is that, like waterelementals, they split after combat, so you have to kill 1 tar demon 3 times. In times of peace I delete the 'secondary' tar demons, so that fresh ones have a chance to spawn. You can tell these because they are 1 less strength. (6 instead of 7 or 7 instead of 8, I forget), though perhaps more identifying is iirc they have the 'weak' promotion.
One of the things I did in my mod actually was to add the Stigmata promotion to weaker Gate-spawns such as the Tar Demon and Reveler. (I think I added it to the Succubus as well)
Tar Demons are actually quite effective at defending, however their slow movement forces them to be largely static defenders. Interestingly enough, since Tar Demons are disciple unitcombat, if you choose a Spiritual Leader like Os-Gabella, your TDs start out with 2 movement (but they still can't use roads).
Revelers can default see-Invisible, so without any changes only one is needed for each primary stack .... (so in a smaller game, or in fast turn timer, only one would be needed), but adding Marksman makes them more useful.
Part of what makes Tar Demons a useful defender is that, like waterelementals, they split after combat, so you have to kill 1 tar demon 3 times. In times of peace I delete the 'secondary' tar demons, so that fresh ones have a chance to spawn. You can tell these because they are 1 less strength. (6 instead of 7 or 7 instead of 8, I forget), though perhaps more identifying is iirc they have the 'weak' promotion.
One of the things I did in my mod actually was to add the Stigmata promotion to weaker Gate-spawns such as the Tar Demon and Reveler. (I think I added it to the Succubus as well)
[to_xp]Gekko
QCT junkie
adding the burning blood ability to chaos marauders might make them a bit more worthwhile as cannon fodder.
[to_xp]Gekko;12917647 said:
I agree. I have added this to the proposal: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issue/175/planar-gate-tweaks
By the way, I mentioned my plans for 0.4.0 in this post in the BarbsPlus thread.
also no WW from dying is approproiate, I believe dead PZ do not cause already WW....
