ExtraModMod

:(

sad news... couldn't find it.
I couldn't find either FFH (version 1), nor any of the phases ice or fire... I only have version 0.41... (may 2009 and then 0.41j)... It seems the previous versions were lost the last time my media HD burned... and they weren't on the primary HD of that time.
(I even found some heroes of might and magic IV savegames and campaignes that I didn't delete... and many morrowind mods, but no civ mod in that primary HD of 2003-2008)

sorry.
I'll check one bakc-up dvd I have somewhere, but I'm not sure there will be any FFH version on it :(
(if anybody still have a version of FFH 1, I would like to get a copy.)
 
guilds were introduced in 0.30 and removed in 0.34, so 0.33g is the last one with them included. years 2007-2008, "shadow" development phase.
 
so it means I lost all my fire and shadow installs... and only have the last ice exe.. ok
 
Guids for food "buffs" - why - in FFH there is abundance of food

Guilds for hammers -as long as you can build 1 unit per turn - not worth a shot

Guids for culture boost - suits for cultural victory, but it is only optional

Guilds for gold - OP comparably with previous guilds ...

...and beakers - ditto

In the original implementation of guilds for FFH2, they were not intended to have effects similar to the corporations in vanilla. Each one of them had an unique effect (XP for recon units, improved city defense or even negative effects such as increasing the crime rate). The only one which provided one of the effects you mention is the Guild of Hammers, which unsurprisingly provided hammers (along with pseudo-ingenuity). Although as usual I will consider changes and tweaks to the original implementation, making them more similar to BtS corporations is not one of them.

so it means I lost all my fire and shadow installs... and only have the last ice exe.. ok

Sad news indeed... Thank you for the search anyways! :)

Since Kael's implementation of guilds relied on events, I would only be able to recreate guilds if I have the original lore, text and implementation of all of those events. Without a shadow version this will not be possible. I have created a post in the main subforum to give more visibility to my request.
 
Ok, thieves guild fits with esus "religion" - IIRC in "tweakmod" there are some good ideas for borrowing...
 
Upon testing the Sidar, and Extramodmod's version of Sever Soul, I think it is a decent replacement for any Dimensional1 functionality that might have been gained. Therefore having Dim1 added to Ghosts is unnecessary, and perhaps even redundant.

Therefore at this point I would propose only a minor change.

Currently ghosts are 5/3 +1 poison, stealth, hidden, marksman, and -50% city strength.

I would suggest adding +10% withdrawal (up to +25% but I think +10% is fine, especially if we consider the second change) ... and +50% city defense. I don't mean -50% city attack and neutral city defense, but an actual +50% city defense.

Normally an Assassin attacks into a city at '3', and defends a city at '2' strength. Or in other words, assassins without levels aren't good anywhere near a city, unless the defenders have had some massive collateral, and they are never decent defending a city .... almost ever. Perhaps Aeron's Chosen with Combat 5, 5/3 +1 poison +2 unholy has a decent city defense potential at 6 str +50%, or at 9 str .... but most assassins defend a city at 2 str not 9 str. And a non-Aeron combat 5 assassin will defend a city at 6 str. Compare that to a normal combat 5 assassin's strength attacking 'into' a city at 9 str.

For the ghost to have a +50% city defense boost, this 3/2, 9/6 business would flip somewhat ...

a ghost would have 4/6(lv1) and 9/10(lv6)

Now, if instead we simply remove the -50% city defense, we get 3/4(lv1) and 9/8(lv6). Again, these numbers are Attacking into a City/ Defending a City. Of course these numbers can be altered with a city having high cultural defenses, palisades and walls, archery ranges .... in which case the penalty is greatly reduced. But for such an expensive unit, whose primary capabilities, granted, are of an offensive nature, and for a civilization whose lore ....

Well, simply removing the city defense penalty might well be enough. I will offer this though ... the Sidar cities are shrouded in mist (typically) far more deeply than its countryside ... with people traveling in and out of sight, and within a city is exactly where this thematic 'invisibility' becomes useless ... therefore, for the Sidar's most iconic invisible unit, I feel as though a city defense boost would allow it to embrace the 'national defense' theme of the Sidar while not sacrificing its offensive capabilities, or making the unit any stronger for an offensive campaign. (that's what the sever soul and withdrawal are for ... and with hawks still able to see ghosts, its a fair shot imho ^_^ ... the mobility isn't quite as good as commando, typically, and with the correct strat defenses *can* be prepared.)


Now, to reiterate, I'm retracting my dimensional1 request ... (for the most part).

Here are several different versions

Mk.Ultra --> +10% withdrawal, +50% city defense, Dimensional 1

Hidden Ninja --> +25% withdrawal, +50% city defense

Moderate --> +10% withdrawal, +50% city defense

Conservative --> +10% withdrawal, neutral city defense

Now I know you aren't fond of me leaving this at a list, so I would naturally propose the Moderate option, with a moderate yet effective +10% withdrawal from the base, as well as a hefty +50% city defense (which is a massive increase from base -50%). At 3 +1 poison defense str however, this would only make a ghost *still* subpar to a city garrison champion under similar circumstances .... but it *would* make city defense a real possibility for a player that chances at making more assassins than say, rangers or champions. A strategy that would normally spell doom, and therefore discourage the widespread use of a UU that is, imho, less powerful than the easily spammable firebow. Or in other words, assassins are typically so poor at city defense that even in a game that typically encourages attacking 'out' of a city, the weakness of this element is enough to discourage the widespread use of assassins for the sagacious player. I do think that the larger benefactor here would be the Sidar AI, that it may more freely be coded to make use of its precious UU, which otherwise would spell its doom, and also that the AI typically defend its cities with a rag tag of all sorts of units anyways, that any city defense with a ghost would help the Sidar AI more than the Sidar human.

-------------------------------------

Added Martyr Blades (mercurian) and Executioner (Infernal) as Assassin UUs in the issue. Only change is switching the 'poison' damage to holy or unholy respectively.
 
The cause for the random Kuriotate OOS error has been found. This means that there no pressing issues preventing the release of the stable version of 0.4.0, and that it will include fully playable Kuriotates for both human players and the AI in multiplayer games. I will release 0.4.0 next Sunday, which means that now is a perfect moment to playtest ExtraModMod 0.4.0-beta2 and report any issues or minor last minute changes :)
 
I just wanted to announce my progress on the french translation of the civopedia.
based on emm0.4.1
currently finished translating the "dungeon" text... line 4627... out of 45700.. 10% yeah !
In fact I'm just posting so as to have a reason for a post... where I can store my last translation.
and if you read it you'll understand my concern..
but contrarily to my work on the units before... I'm also trying all that's in the Pedia and Strategy tags, and there, not only proofing the exisiting but also making my own creations :D

thus translating poems is a pain !
so I don't want my efforts to risk be lo(s)t!
For perpy's rambling the previous translator tried his best, so I had only to do minute changes at worst.
but here, from scratch I worked my back
and hard it is the rhyme keeping and still be close to the meaning (and beware of the meter-ing)
(pardon my selfishness)
Spoiler :
Spoiler ENGLISH :
Tears and Blood

No simple bond between man and wife
Is close to what we together share
Parents, children, friends for life
Those relationships don't compare
For what we have is even more rare
You, my victim, held by chains
And I, with knives, who brings you pain

Never more honest than when with me
You will betray those other loves
Faithful, focused you will be
Your trembling lips will kiss my glove
As if I am your god above
We will share what you hold dear
Those hidden thoughts only I will hear

As lovers joined in rapt delight
So we will be upon my boards
But where their devotion lasts a night
My pains will keep you bound for more
More fierce than any common whore
The world will slip away from us
For torture is more intense than lust

When finally our dance is through
And you have shown your heart to me
A yearning will return to you
A desire to inflict misery
To return to our sweet fantasy
For all else is subdued by suffering
Tears and blood are true intimacy

-A Svartalfar torturer's rhyme
Spoiler Translated by me :
Sang et Larmes

Même ce qui mari et femme unit
Ne se compare à notre rapport
Parents, enfants, amis pour la vie
Ces liens sont comparativement morts
Car ce nous avons est bien plus fort
Toi, ma victime, maintenue par des chaînes soeurs
Et moi, avec mes couteaux, qui t'apporte douleur.

Jamais plus franc qu'avec moi
Tu trahiras ces liens d'avant
Fidèle et attentif tu seras
Tes lèvres de peur baiseront mon gant
Comme si j'étais un dieu aimant
Nous partagerons tout ce qui t'est précieux
Ces secrets tu me les diras de ton mieux.

Tel des amants pris par le plaisir
Ainsi, nous serons sur mon étalage
Mais quand leur dévotion ne dure qu'une nuit
Mes douleurs des jours te garderont otage
Plus dures qu'une pute de bas étage
Tel que le temps te semblera s'enfuir
Car la torture est plus intense que le désire.

Quand enfin notre danse sera finie
Et tu m'auras dévoilé tout ton cœur
Tu seras pris d'une sombre envie
Du désir d'infliger la douleur
Pour retrouver notre douce folie
Car tout le reste dans la douleur disparait
Car Sang et Larmes créent une intimité vraie.

-Chanson d'un tortionnaire Svartalfar
 
Just letting you know Terkhen that we've still been playing the odd game, no errors so far (other than an odd disconnect error when we first start a game, but it's easy enough to rejoin).

We start up some big 6-8 player games this Saturday, so apologies if I report some bugs that you subsequently have fixed in 4.0.0! Would I be right in assuming that the update will break savegames? If so we'll have to finish that game before we upgrade.

Cheers!
 
I just wanted to announce my progress on the french translation of the civopedia.
based on emm0.4.1
currently finished translating the "dungeon" text... line 4627... out of 45700.. 10% yeah !
In fact I'm just posting so as to have a reason for a post... where I can store my last translation.
and if you read it you'll understand my concern..
but contrarily to my work on the units before... I'm also trying all that's in the Pedia and Strategy tags, and there, not only proofing the exisiting but also making my own creations :D

That's great :)

I can't say I had the same persistence with the Spanish translation... I settled for just reviewing and translating game terms and left all the lore and strategy tags without a review. Something for the future, I guess :)

If keeping backups is a problem, you could create an issue in the issue tracker and just add or edit the attachments in the first post to always keep a copy there. That way, I will also get an e-mail whenever you update your translation and I will be able to do periodic merges.

By the way, Calavente, I don't think I ever got an answer from you about this:

Thank you for your work. I have committed your improved text strings, which will be present in the next beta and/or release (whichever comes first). I have been delaying it, but one of my pending tasks is to review the spanish translation in ExtraModMod, making a merge of it with More Naval AI XML files (without any ExtraModMod specific changes) and prepare them for inclusion in MNAI. Would you mind if I send your improved strings along with mine to Tholal when I do that? (giving proper credit, of course)

What do you think?

Just letting you know Terkhen that we've still been playing the odd game, no errors so far (other than an odd disconnect error when we first start a game, but it's easy enough to rejoin).

That's good to know, thanks! I always wondered why that disconnect happens. IIRC it happened for us on vanilla BtS too so I never took it as a FFH/EMM bug, but I'm not 100% sure about this.

We start up some big 6-8 player games this Saturday, so apologies if I report some bugs that you subsequently have fixed in 4.0.0! Would I be right in assuming that the update will break savegames? If so we'll have to finish that game before we upgrade.

Cheers!

That's correct. 0.4.0-beta1 savegames are not compatible with 0.4.0-beta2, and 0.4.0-beta2 savegames will not be compatible with 0.4.0 either. With the release method I plan to follow, betas do not keep savegame compatibility with each other but stable releases with the same version number (0.4.0, 0.4.1 and so on) will keep savegame compatibility as they will include only bugfixes (unless an urgent bugfix needs to break it, in that case it would be explicitly mentioned in the release post).

As you know I'm very interested on multiplayer testing so tomorrow I hope to be able to prepare an unofficial beta version for you that would include the Kuriotate OOS error fix and a couple of new Kuriotate-related features I had on wait until the OOS error had been fixed. That way, you should be able to play with the Kuriotates without worries. This unofficial beta would almost certainly be savegame compatible with 0.4.0 when it is released next Sunday (it will hopefully include no changes as the current development version is what I also intend to release except for a few pending merges with other repositories).
 
As you know I'm very interested on multiplayer testing so tomorrow I hope to be able to prepare an unofficial beta version for you that would include the Kuriotate OOS error fix and a couple of new Kuriotate-related features I had on wait until the OOS error had been fixed. That way, you should be able to play with the Kuriotates without worries. This unofficial beta would almost certainly be savegame compatible with 0.4.0 when it is released next Sunday (it will hopefully include no changes as the current development version is what I also intend to release except for a few pending merges with other repositories).

That's amazing, thanks man! We are starting at 4 PM AEST (just under 24 hours from now), which depending on your timezone may give you less time than you thought -- If you release something we'll definitely test it for you, but if you don't get the time no stress - there'll be plenty of games in the future I'm sure ;). Thanks again!
 
[Formal]dear Lord Terkhen

I wish to express my utmost appologies for not having responded to your query.
Let it be known that your proposal would be very satisfying for me. You doing so would fulfill some of my dearest wishes.
Truth be told, I didn't dare propose my translation (even when finished, if it ever happens) to his lordship Tholal, by fear that the contents of Emm's elements would be much different from the one of the excellent work "More Naval Armed Invasions" - Isn't this the true meaning behind such MnAi name ?.
your humble servant,
Calavente [/Formal].

Not only I would agree easily, but that would be nice of you to transfer it to Tholal, if he wants to take it.
I posted it in your forum as I took the file from your modmod, it being the one I'm currently playing. I didn't propose it to other mods because I have no idea how to easily add those strings into mods that change heavily the game, (like RifE or MoM or Orbis that have many more promotions, units and buildings).
But overall, I would be proud to have my translations transfered to any FFH modder that want to include it.

as a side note : the Belthane cycle entries are a nightmare to translate... more than 6 pages per Belthane entry !! but it's linked to the story of Hemah... so it's interesting.
 
That's amazing, thanks man! We are starting at 4 PM AEST (just under 24 hours from now), which depending on your timezone may give you less time than you thought -- If you release something we'll definitely test it for you, but if you don't get the time no stress - there'll be plenty of games in the future I'm sure ;). Thanks again!

While working on this "unnofficial beta" I realized that I had missed noticing a quite big change to how spawns are handled in the wilderness, pending from merge in the BarbsPlus repository. This brings the amount of untested changes to a limit in which I'm not confortable with a release until I have tested it properly. Therefore, I'm sorry to say that I won't be able to release 0.4.0 on this week's Sunday. To alleviate dissapointment a bit, I'm going to release 0.4.0-beta3 ASAP. I'll get into more details in the release post, but it includes a few very interesting goodies :)

Not only I would agree easily, but that would be nice of you to transfer it to Tholal, if he wants to take it.
I posted it in your forum as I took the file from your modmod, it being the one I'm currently playing. I didn't propose it to other mods because I have no idea how to easily add those strings into mods that change heavily the game, (like RifE or MoM or Orbis that have many more promotions, units and buildings).
But overall, I would be proud to have my translations transfered to any FFH modder that want to include it.

There is no need for such formalities :D

Thank you! I will make the merge to MNAI once that I'm done with 0.4.0.
 
0.4.0-beta3 has been uploaded

This beta is required because, although small in number, the changes included are very deep and will require further testing. Although it is still a beta, 0.4.0-beta3 has no known gamestopping issues except for the OOS error when creating a puppet state.

Being a beta means that it is quite helpful to provide bug reports and feedback for this version. The Testing Guide that should be helpful for those interested in testing this release. Asserts are not as annoyingly common as they were in 0.4.0-beta1, but you will eventally run into some assert errors we are trying to debug. To prevent assert errors from blocking your game, you must disable full screen mode (you can find the instructions to do this in the testing guide).

The most important changes included in 0.4.0-beta3 are:
  • New spawning system for wilderness, along with improvements and corrections, by lfgr.
  • The Kuriotates should no longer produce OOS errors in multiplayer.
  • The Infernals will no longer produce an OOS error when conquering a city.
  • Inclusion of the Multiple Production Mod by Denev.
  • The Warrens no longer duplicates living units produced. It increases the production of living units by 100% instead.

The changelog of 0.4.0-beta3 can be found below. If you want to see all changes since 0.3.1 you will also have to check the previous changelogs.

Spoiler :
ExtraModMod 0.4.0-beta3

More Naval AI version: 2.52 with additional fixes and features.

Features
  • Ice and Metamagic have been added as spheres for the Mobius Witch.
  • Improved hints.
  • Multiple Production. When city production is enough to finish next queue item, more than one item is finished in the same turn.
  • The AI now takes into account modifiers to living unit production when deciding what to build.
  • New Kuriotate event for Shrimps.

Changes

  • Hide the BtS concepts civilopedia page
  • The Warrens no longer duplicates living units produced. It increases the production of living units by 100% instead.
  • Kuriotates start with Nationhood instead of Religion.

Fixes

  • Force english language for the OOSLogger.
  • Infernal conquest OOS error.
  • Most events increasing plot yields now require the plot being in a city BFC.
  • Breakthrough event only triggers when an event is selectable.

BarbsPlus changes

  • Maximum wilderness increase per plot on inhabited continents.
  • Better wilderness scaling.
  • Present capitals (in scenarios) replace starting points for wilderness
    calculation.
  • Wilderness now takes the continent size divided by the number of players on
    that continent instead of only continent size into account.
  • Lair exploration spawns will no longer do nothing.
  • Certain spawns will not appear if a lair defender is required.
  • Corrected animal sell values considering the buy animal event.
  • Added sell values for sea animals.
  • Scouts are now never obsolete (for Horseman upgrade strategies).
  • New spawning system.

More Naval AI changes

  • Improved error logging.
  • Having a human Kuriotate player will no longer produce a random OOS error.
  • Spell Promotions now have their own category in the Sevopedia and Worldbuilder.

In the first post of this thread you can find the links for download, wiki, feedback, future plans and other useful information.
 
we're 3 hours in and getting game-ending OOS errors :-(. Not sure what logs I have enabled but I'll upload what we have once we decide to call it quits. Kuriotates are in the game and it is looking decidedly like a kuriotates OOS (turn 63, unpredictable, constant)
 
we're 3 hours in and getting game-ending OOS errors :-(. Not sure what logs I have enabled but I'll upload what we have once we decide to call it quits. Kuriotates are in the game and it is looking decidedly like a kuriotates OOS (turn 63, unpredictable, constant)

I'm sorry about that :(

Can you please send me a savegame when you are done too? I can get the logs from it myself if necessary.
 
Hi Terkhen,

I've uploaded three saves which should each have an OOS either immediately or within the next few turns. The host was Bannor. Other players were Hippus, Kuriotates, Amurites, Malakim, Lanun. In the first two OOS saves, Malakim goes OOS in a random fashion starting from turn 63. Malakim left the game at ~turn 100 and the OOS stopped. Eventually, the Amurites began to OOS in a similar fashion (save three). Hippus, Kurios and Malakim all left at various stages of the game. Sorry, It's quite late here and I'm exhausted so I don't have the energy to produce the logs for you manually.

We also encountered two separate bugs:

Firstly, when using the 'save now and quit' option and subsequently rehosting, the save file was corrupted and would crash my game with the following asset:

Spoiler :
Assert Failed

File: d:\development\extramodmod\cvgamecoredll\CvPlayerAI.h
Line: 25
Expression: ePlayer != NO_PLAYER
Message: Player is not assigned a valid value

----------------------------------------------------------


Saving in the normal way and rehosting caused no errors.

Secondly, playing as the Bannor, Crusade seemed to be bugged out. I could not cast my worldspell when using it and Demagogues did not spawn on my towns. I could produce the Demagogues normally from cities in crusade which accounts for the units I have in the Lanun territory. You can reproduce the error using the amurite OOS save and playing as Bannor. Perhaps I am overlooking some part of what is necessary to spawn demas during a crusade? I am at war, with the crusade civic and techs - also good and order just in case but I don't think they matter. There are plenty of towns about.

Sadly the OOS errors killed the game :-( but we did have fun up to that point. We'll be playing another game tomorrow - we will try to test kurios beforehand and if that doesn't identify the OOS issues, we'll probably revert to beta2 for that game.

We also had some units tweaked with a homebrew XML patch, but the games should load without it. I'll attach just in case. The same changes were used in beta2 without any OOS issues. We did update the files to the beta3 XMLs when we upgraded.

Thanks again for all your hard work!

-Blakmane
 
[to_xp]Gekko;13014290 said:
great job on merging the multiple production mod!

Thank you! :)

I've uploaded three saves which should each have an OOS either immediately or within the next few turns. The host was Bannor. Other players were Hippus, Kuriotates, Amurites, Malakim, Lanun. In the first two OOS saves, Malakim goes OOS in a random fashion starting from turn 63. Malakim left the game at ~turn 100 and the OOS stopped. Eventually, the Amurites began to OOS in a similar fashion (save three). Hippus, Kurios and Malakim all left at various stages of the game.

There is something strange in these savegames. In all of them, the Kuriotates are closed in the lobby and I cannot access with them as a player. I tried to reproduce the OOS in the second savegame (Malakim immediate) by entering with the other five players and letting a few turns pass but I got no OOS errors.

Sorry, It's quite late here and I'm exhausted so I don't have the energy to produce the logs for you manually.

Don't worry, there is no hurry :)

Firstly, when using the 'save now and quit' option and subsequently rehosting, the save file was corrupted and would crash my game with the following asset:

I wasn't able to reproduce this issue. Did something special happen right before the disconnection?

Secondly, playing as the Bannor, Crusade seemed to be bugged out. I could not cast my worldspell when using it and Demagogues did not spawn on my towns. I could produce the Demagogues normally from cities in crusade which accounts for the units I have in the Lanun territory. You can reproduce the error using the amurite OOS save and playing as Bannor. Perhaps I am overlooking some part of what is necessary to spawn demas during a crusade? I am at war, with the crusade civic and techs - also good and order just in case but I don't think they matter. There are plenty of towns about.

Nice find! You are reading the prerrequisites correctly; it seems that Rally has been broken since it was moved from the "Cultural Values" category to the "Membership" category. Besides this, I also saw that Crusade wasn't limiting the building of workers, settlers and certain buildings correctly. Both of these issues have been fixed and a hotfix for your next game is attached to this post.

Sadly the OOS errors killed the game :-( but we did have fun up to that point.

I'm sorry about the OOS errors, but I'm also glad that the game is being fun :)

We'll be playing another game tomorrow - we will try to test kurios beforehand and if that doesn't identify the OOS issues, we'll probably revert to beta2 for that game.

Although it is possible that there are more Kuriotate-related OOS errors that I have overlooked, I'm certain that beta3 introduces no new OOS that could be caused only by their presence. I have tested a beta3 multiplayer game with the Kuriotates as human player and I ran it until turn 100 without any OOS errors or differences in the logs, which makes me wonder if some specific conditions are needed to reproduce your issue. The only big change in beta3 that could possibly produce OOS errors is the new spawning code of wilderness but I don't think that could be the cause because Wilderness is very verbose on logs and I would have seen something in the logs of my test game.

We also had some units tweaked with a homebrew XML patch, but the games should load without it. I'll attach just in case. The same changes were used in beta2 without any OOS issues. We did update the files to the beta3 XMLs when we upgraded.

Those changes are interesting. I like the Chaos Marauder and Mobility changes :)

Thanks again for all your hard work!

Thanks to your friends and you for the testing and the feedback! It's really appreciated :)

EDIT: Attachment removed.
 
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