ExtraModMod

[DarkLunaPhantom]

Also, the Airship is displayed twice in the pedia under Kuriotates's unique units.

 

[Terkhen]

Thanks everybody for the feedback and the bug reports!

I found a problem with the Foreign Trade civic. It is not creating extra trade routes, nor any bonus yield to trade routes. See attached saves.

I like your method for marking positions for pirate ports! I don't think that it is possible to create additional trade routes in that specific savegame because you do not know many cities or civilizations, though. Check Innsmouth in the attached savegames. Without Foreign Trade, Innsmouth has 6 trade routes, and the trade route with Celo is generating +3.90 commerce. With Foreign Trade, it has 7 trade routes and the trade route with Celo is generating +4.87 commerce (4.875 = 3.90 * 1.25), so everything is looking fine.

I noticed a weird thing while doing this test though. With Foreign trade, the popup that appears when hovering the mouse over Celo says +3.90 total commerce, so it is very likely that it is not taking into account civics. I have created an issue on the tracker for this: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issues/372/commerce-calculation-for-trade-routes

I got this Python exception using the last beta:

Ah yes, I have spent so much time with that one (see https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issues/259/python-exception-on-dwarf-vs-lizardman). It is triggered only on very rare cases during the dwarf vs lizardman event. I have no idea what could be causing it, but since this is the second report about it for 0.6.0-beta1 I will have yet another fresh look into it for beta2.

I noticed a bug whilst playing with Kuriotates though: the counter which should show the current number of cities and the maximum number of cities, instead displayed the number of cities+settlements.

Oh, that's ugly! Thank you for the report, I have added it to the tracker for 0.6.0-beta2 too: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issues/373/kuriotate-city-counter-also-counts

Also, the Airship is displayed twice in the pedia under Kuriotates's unique units.

Thanks! It has been added for 0.6.0-beta2 as well: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extramodmod/issues/374/airship-is-displayed-twice-in-the-pedia

 

[morchuflex]

Hello.

I just wanted to congratulate you for the new beta. I have been playing for two weeks and so far no crash, no bug, not even a glitch to report.
I love the additional animals.
I also like the new diplomatic options.
One very minor gripe, though: in the diplomatic window, when an AI has contacts to trade and I select them and ask what they would want in exchange, they always reply "I don't see how such a deal could be possible", even when I have plenty to offer in return. I have to manually select my counter-offer, and only then they'll accept the deal - provided it's in their favor, of course: for instance, three of my contacts in exchange for two of them.
Anyway, thanks again, Terkhen, for the time you put into this for everyone's enjoyment!

 

[Terkhen]

I just wanted to congratulate you for the new beta.

Thank you!

One very minor gripe, though: in the diplomatic window, when an AI has contacts to trade and I select them and ask what they would want in exchange, they always reply "I don't see how such a deal could be possible", even when I have plenty to offer in return. I have to manually select my counter-offer, and only then they'll accept the deal - provided it's in their favor, of course: for instance, three of my contacts in exchange for two of them.

That must come from MNAI's advanced diplomacy so I will try to reproduce the issue in vanilla MNAI and report it.

 

[Y T]

Recently installed the 0.60-beta and playing as Ljosalfar found out that stone doesnt show up in the Masonry wiki/research intro text. Once connected with a road & quarry it also doesnt show up in a cities ressource list and buildable stone structures showing their red cost notification. Now it might be that designwise the Elves are excluded from using stone and if so I would like a thought over the matter again since marble/sleuth was never disallowed for them & the stone is kind of a newer addition.

I also noticed that captured (human) workers/settlers will show up correctly as nonelven units but will be able to construct improvements in forests without destroying them like elven units [Edit: exception are Burnt Forest tiles for both], making the human builders better. Now I dont remember which mod it was which solved the whole matter rather eloquently without causing the user micromanagement troubles by just transforming captured workers to their playing race (Luchuirp got Khazad workers); I could also imagine a slave-like implementation of captured workers.

Something outside of 0.60 that has bothered me for a long time was that under the 'End of Winter' challenge the Ljosalfar could be put into a jungle area with flavour settings off (some mapscripts say they dont run well with flavour settings).
The whole mapscript section got too convulated IMHO anyway. I can understand its a lot of work to get the whole bunch to work under one regime of options but I can also imagine that 60% of them get never played.

Anyway after all that criticism nice to see that you Terkhen & others are still putting effort into this mod & keep the community alive!

 

[Sigwald]

Hello.

I just wanted to congratulate you for the new beta. I have been playing for two weeks and so far no crash

Hold fast, here's one. I provide the save in the attachment, of course.

I use the citystyle mod for MNAI, don't know if it's what causes the crash.

 

[Terkhen]

Recently installed the 0.60-beta and playing as Ljosalfar found out that stone doesnt show up in the Masonry wiki/research intro text. Once connected with a road & quarry it also doesnt show up in a cities ressource list and buildable stone structures showing their red cost notification. Now it might be that designwise the Elves are excluded from using stone and if so I would like a thought over the matter again since marble/sleuth was never disallowed for them & the stone is kind of a newer addition.

Stone is enabled by the Mining technology. This means that you need Masonry to unlock Quarries and Mining to enable Stone before you can use Stone.

I also noticed that captured (human) workers/settlers will show up correctly as nonelven units but will be able to construct improvements in forests without destroying them like elven units [Edit: exception are Burnt Forest tiles for both], making the human builders better.

Human slaves are not able to do that when they are controlled by non-elven civilizations.

Something outside of 0.60 that has bothered me for a long time was that under the 'End of Winter' challenge the Ljosalfar could be put into a jungle area with flavour settings off (some mapscripts say they dont run well with flavour settings).

If the flavour settings are off, your civilization will be placed in what the game thinks is a good place for it. As far as I know, this feature has not been changed from the default Civilization IV. I have no plans to improve that feature.

The whole mapscript section got too convulated IMHO anyway. I can understand its a lot of work to get the whole bunch to work under one regime of options but I can also imagine that 60% of them get never played.

ExtraModMod offers MapScript variety because each player uses different ones. Just play the ones you enjoy; if you bear in mind that the supported ones are always on top of the list there's still less choices than in Beyond the Sword.

I use the citystyle mod for MNAI, don't know if it's what causes the crash.

Your savegame does not crash for me, even after letting the game run automated for 100 turns with it. If that mod was made for MNAI, then it can certainly break other mods.

 

[Sigwald]

Your savegame does not crash for me, even after letting the game run automated for 100 turns with it. If that mod was made for MNAI, then it can certainly break other mods.

Indeed, that may be the cause. Well, too bad for me, I liked that submod.

 

[kvaak]

• Puppet States are no longer allowed to cast World Spells.

Lieeeeeeeees.

And it just had to be the one change I was looking forward to precisely because of Illians and their bloody snow tiles.

And no scorching isn't worth the effort.

 

[Terkhen]

What is wrong in that picture, kvaak? I only see one Illian civilization there.

 

[kvaak]

A puppet state, as evidenced by the weird color and leader (Auric got pre-emptively finished off by Mercurians).

 

[DarkLunaPhantom]

When a puppet state remains as the only civ of its civilization they gain legitimacy and the ability to use world spells.

 

[kvaak]

Legitimate, irrelevant and painfully annoying. Gah. At least it's not as bad as the time I signed a permanent alliance with Lanun, declared war on a relatively weak opponent and had half my everything (sic) blown up by raging seas.

 

[Terkhen]

You may want to try playing with "No world spells" enabled.

 

[kvaak]

I'd rather keep them even if I loathe stasis, couldn't imagine playing Ljosalfar or Luchuirp without theirs and overall I feel they add to the game without being gamebreaking or anything. The raging seas derp was fairly hilarious in a way and it's not like stasis is overpowered or anything, it's just annoying. Especially when you have to deal with it twice. I'll just let Auric keep a pointy stick or two next time. Maybe an igloo if I'm feeling generous.

 

[Qgqqqqq]

Just popping in to say the mod looks amazing, as usual, and thanks for all the kind words and advertising you've done of my and Sareln's work at EitB. (I never officially stated this, but I've stepped away from making active progress on EitB as the MP community and my personal interest has receded, though I still respond to queries, bug reports, download questions, etc., and I always enjoy talking about FFH2 strategy and gameplay.)

I plan to spend some time this Summer playing this mod (as well as some of the older ones) and enjoying your labour of love!


P.s. By the by, what do you think of Foreign Trade in the latest incarnation of EitB? I was of the opinion that it was a bit too strong, especially in single player naval games, and needed a bit of a nerf.

Also Discworld looks awesome.

Edit: Also, is there any reason you decided against the age breakdowns of EitB?

 

[kvaak]

Puppet states don't apparently retain their original civilization under some circumstances. I had Lanun, Illians and Malakim spawn as puppet states in a global-ish Calabim + Infernals vs. Mercurians + pretty much everyone else conflict, unless I'm mistaken all aforementioned puppet states were created from Infernal and/or Mercurian cities. Having no parent nations they were instantly recognized as legitimate nations, fired off their world spells and promptly got annihilated. Guess I won't be enabling puppet states and world spells simultaneously anymore. Shame, I like both.

New lairs are awesome, courtesy of which Grigori is my new favorite civ. In all its hilarious inappropriateness I'm almost sad to see their Mercurian Gate go.

On the other end of the spectrum you have Sidar whose lair-raiding capabilities are restricted by the incentive to wane everything ASAP, but I'm okay with that.

 

[Terkhen]

So I have bad news; ExtraModMod 0.6.0-beta1 has a new OOS error. We have been getting it very frequently after about turn 200 while playing on team games, but our logs are not very helpful. After many days I am not able to reproduce it using my automated OOS testing mode so I do not have more logs. This means that in order to get this one fixed I am going to need more data from you.

If you are playing ExtraModMod 0.6.0-beta1 in multiplayer games and you want to help, please take a moment to read the Testing Guide and configure the game of everybody taking part as indicated there. If you get the dreaded OOS error, please attach the SynchLog, OOSLog and BBAILog files of all players to this thread, along with the autosave from just before the OOS error took place. I believe that with two or three of these reports, I should have enough information to pinpoint what is going on.

Thanks in advance!

Just popping in to say the mod looks amazing, as usual, and thanks for all the kind words and advertising you've done of my and Sareln's work at EitB. (I never officially stated this, but I've stepped away from making active progress on EitB as the MP community and my personal interest has receded, though I still respond to queries, bug reports, download questions, etc., and I always enjoy talking about FFH2 strategy and gameplay.)

I plan to spend some time this Summer playing this mod (as well as some of the older ones) and enjoying your labour of love!

Thank you! Let us know how it goes And given that all the effort put in EitB has made us enjoy the different strategies and possibilities that the game offers a lot more, those words are well deserved!

P.s. By the by, what do you think of Foreign Trade in the latest incarnation of EitB? I was of the opinion that it was a bit too strong, especially in single player naval games, and needed a bit of a nerf.

I think that it is fine; in most cases I feel that other economy civics are valid choices as well. It is true that Foreign Trade is optimal for naval games, but so are the Lanun

Edit: Also, is there any reason you decided against the age breakdowns of EitB?

No reason; I never decided against it. I just saw that porting it would take some time so I have been prioritizing other features. lfgr and Tholal are discussing this feature (https://bitbucket.org/Tholal/more-naval-ai/issues/36/detach-religions-from-eras#comment-40322545) so we may be getting it in EMM in the future

Puppet states don't apparently retain their original civilization under some circumstances. I had Lanun, Illians and Malakim spawn as puppet states in a global-ish Calabim + Infernals vs. Mercurians + pretty much everyone else conflict, unless I'm mistaken all aforementioned puppet states were created from Infernal and/or Mercurian cities. Having no parent nations they were instantly recognized as legitimate nations, fired off their world spells and promptly got annihilated. Guess I won't be enabling puppet states and world spells simultaneously anymore. Shame, I like both.

Yeah, I don't know the exact conditions but in some cases puppet states will not generate the same civilization. In the Infernal/Mercurian case I think it's fine to use a different civilization because the game would not work well with two instances of those civilizations. Maybe Infernals and Mercurians should generate civilizations without world spell, even if they are automatically legitimate.

On the other end of the spectrum you have Sidar whose lair-raiding capabilities are restricted by the incentive to wane everything ASAP, but I'm okay with that.

Yeah I think that's fine; it is the same decision they have to make with other unit types as well.

 

[kvaak]

Discworld has a bad habit of creating start locations like this. I can just regenerate the map here, but outside WorldBuilder there's no way to tell if an AI just lost on turn 1.

Discworld / Large / Low sea level / default number of players (9 I think?)

 

[Terkhen]

I guess that the transition from temperate to ice is too abrupt, making the starting point algorithm believe that island is a good starting position. Thank you for the report; this will get fixed for the next beta.