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Discussion in 'More Naval AI Modmod' started by Terkhen, Jan 19, 2013.

  1. Sigwald

    Sigwald Chieftain

    Aug 17, 2015
    Oh no, now I've seen all you're planning to do besides upgrading to MNAI 2.7.1 and I'm getting even more excited about 0.6.0... :D
  2. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

    Aug 1, 2011
    Well, if you are checking the issue tracker, those are just the tasks that remain to be done. 0.6.0 has been in the works for a long time already, so there is also a lot that is already there. Nothing is hidden in ExtraModMod development; you can check the list of commits in the project website, and I also maintain the future changelog of 0.6.0 updated. You can check what has already been done here: https://bitbucket.org/Terkhen/extra...g.txt?at=default&fileviewer=file-view-default

    Besides an extremely long list of awesome features coming from More Naval AI, I have merged a lot of balance improvements from Erebus in the Balance. lfgr has been working a lot on Wilderness and events. Now that I seem to have some months with time for development ahead of me, after I finish testing merges and some bugfixes I plan on help with some of the tasks in the More Naval AI repository, and then help with Wilderness. EMM 0.6.0-beta1 is finally getting closer!
    [to_xp]Gekko likes this.
  3. Sigwald

    Sigwald Chieftain

    Aug 17, 2015
    Damn, to think an 8 years old mod is still undergoing development on such a scale... The only other game I know having this dedicacy is age of empires 2, but there is a business running behind it. And you, you just do that for free. There isn't even a donation option on your bitbucket page ! You see when you help an old lady carrying its bag and you both get a tiny but real feeling of confidence in humanity ? You realize that, through your mod, you are basically giving that on a far larger scale ?

    Oh well, I'm exaggerating as I usually do, but I know too well people are often too shy to express their thanks. Or that they don't even think about it when they get to download a mod as regularly as yours. But anyway, even if it goes without saying, it would go better by saying it.
  4. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

    Aug 1, 2011
    Well, thank you for the kind words! I really appreciate knowing that people still enjoy the work we do in what by now is an old game.

    But there is something I must say, though. ExtraModMod is very far from being the work of just a few people, and certainly not just me. For example, just in that 0.6.0-beta1 changelog you can see that my role has been mostly fixing some issues and integrating other projects into EMM.

    I believe that lfgr's work on Wilderness is so fun and engaging that everyone is going to enjoy the eXploration component of 4X a lot more in the next version of EMM; personally in my latest testgames I have enjoyed it more than I ever did in any game of the Civilization series. What Tholal has done with More Naval AI 2.7 is amazing. And as always, the balance changes coming from Erebus in the Balance and Qgqqqqq are going make certain strategies, civilizations and units that were not used much before a viable option. For example, in one of my recent test games I enjoyed playing with the Elohim. A lot.

    And those are just some examples. ExtraModMod is built on top of the shoulders of the giants that are Fall from Heaven 2 and More Naval AI, and it contains the work of a lot of dedicated and talented people that have been a part of the Civilization IV modding community. And thanks to how awesome this community is, all of that work is available for everybody. Modders can learn from each other, and help each other. Players can enjoy this content, test beta versions and provide good feedback to modders.

    I love this, and after taking so much from the community to make ExtraModMod, I am glad to give back as much as I can and happy to be a part of it. So please let me piggyback on your post to thank all of them as they really are the ones making what you said possible :)
  5. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Prince

    Mar 17, 2013
    Oh great Terkhen !

    The best of balancing and multiplayer feedback, and the best of your own mod ! I am waiting this new 0.6.0 with a high excitation !

    When will it be possible to read a changelog, and to play it ? I am ready to play any beta version ! :)
  6. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

    Aug 1, 2011
  7. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Prince

    Mar 17, 2013
    - This will be included right ? But I don't see in the Erebus in the Balance forum, what this version is. I know the v12 changelog, but I don't find the changelog of the v12.1. Where it is ?

    - Is it possible to already play your beta version if we use the SVN ? Is it buggued or playable ?

    - It's huge !

    - Huhu that's malicius.
  8. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

    Aug 1, 2011
    You can find EitB v12.1 here: http://www.realmsbeyond.net/forums/showthread.php?tid=7655&pid=598179#pid598179

    I don't remember from where I got its changelog though.

    Well, it should not even be considered a beta version. Not even an alpha or a prealpha, because I am actively developing it right now. Let's call it a development version. All bugs that are open in the ExtraModMod tracker, in the BarbsPlus tracker or in the More Naval AI tracker will be present, and if you have the bad luck of downloading it at points of development that are specially chaotic (right after merges with other modcomps or mods, or when I commit huge features) it is very likely that you will find bugs. Having said that, the latest commits have endured many test games successfully and they seem to work fine.

    You can get the latest development version if you go to the Downloads page and select "download repository". This will not include MapScriptTools, as it has its own repository that you can find here, but if you download 1.06 and apply it then it should be fine. If you find any bugs while using development versions, please report them in the bitbucket issue tracker directly along with the version that you downloaded (I prefer to keep the forum thread for just the stable versions to avoid confusions). The development version string can be checked in the name of the file that you downloaded. For example, I got extramodmod-e04cc8df474a right now.

    Some of them may still be failing! If you find which ones, please let me know in the issue tracker.
  9. Tasunke

    Tasunke Crazy Horse

    Mar 20, 2009
    the 1800s
    Best way to test would be to give them the Nature 3 archmages and sun 1 adepts via WORLDBUILDER, preferably placing them near the affected terrain, and maybe giving one sun 1 adept of each unitAI type available, just to test for AI types (unless u want to give them 6 archmages with 1 of each AI type.

    Even if you do give him 6-10 free archmages with Nature III, controlling for different AI types, u can balance it to avoid "cheating" by setting the units's levels to level 12 or so. This should prevent the units from gaining additional promotions. Maybe give it mobility 1 and 2 to allow for more quick terraform (assuming terraform is possible)

    that way said archmages would basically be as harmless militarily as a bronzeweapons axeman with haste.

    If the AI DOES terraform, then try to identify which Archmages are terraforming, and then re-enter Worldbuilder to look at the AI type of the terraformer. There is technically a unitAI Terraformer, but previous testing I did in 5.1 did not see any successful terraformations .... however, I was trying to get Malakim to terraform things into desert, and the AI might have been hardcoded to avoid making its own lands into deserts :D .... so please let me know how your tests go :)
  10. Tholal

    Tholal Emperor

    May 19, 2009
    [QUOTE="Tasunke, post: 14905927, member: 160295"however, I was trying to get Malakim to terraform things into desert, and the AI might have been hardcoded to avoid making its own lands into deserts :D[/QUOTE]


    Terraforming code is in python. CvGameUtils.py -> AI_MageTurn

    It would be pretty simple to change the code so that Malakim try to make deserts. The code is pretty self-explanatory.
  11. LightAcolyte

    LightAcolyte Chieftain

    Aug 4, 2013
    Does the current beta of ExtraModMod in the repository include MoreNavalAI 2.71 or just MoreNavalAI 2.7...? I'm a bit confused between the issue tracker and the changelog. I really enjoy playing with ExtraModMod, but some of the errors from earlier MoreNavalAI make my games unplayable. If it doesn't, can I install MoreNavalAI 2.71 and ExtraModMod somehow?
  12. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

    Aug 1, 2011
    There is still a lot of work to do for 0.6.0, but since I don't have much time lately a beta intended only for bugfixing is still far away. But since 0.5.2 is already quite old, I think that it is a good idea to do this...

    ExtraModMod 0.6.0-beta1 release

    A lot of things have happened since 0.5.0 was released. More Naval AI 2.7 and 2.71 have been released, bringing a huge amount of improvements and fixes to Fall from Heaven 2.

    A lot of new features have been added to BarbsPlus, adding a lot of depth and improvements to animals, and also additional barbarian spawns and lair rewards. Check the ingame "Wilderness" concept page and the full changelog below for more details; you are in for a treat.


    And Erebus in the Balance v12 improves game balance even more, making usually ignored strategies a viable option while balancing overused options to make the game more fun. I specially enjoyed the Monk change.

    ExtraModMod 0.6.0-beta1 brings all of those changes together, along with additional features and bugfixes.

    As I mentioned earlier, 0.6.0-beta1 is not feature complete yet. Many things (specially Wilderness) may get additional features or changes in future betas.

    Bug reports and feedback are welcome; this is not a stable version so bugs are to be expected. The Testing Guide is meant to help in creating OOS bug reports and any others. The full changelog of this version can be checked below:

    Spoiler :
    ExtraModMod 0.6.0-beta1

    More Naval AI version: 2.71 with additional bugfixes.

    MapScriptTools version: 1.06 with additional bugfixes.

    Erebus in the Balance version: 12.1

    • The map size of all mst MapScripts is now proportional to the actual Fall from Heaven 2 map sizes instead of being hardcoded.
    • Recruit (Great generals) is now an ability, not a spell.
    • Prevent UI errors when one of the customizable progress bars is full.
    • Fixed an error with the add to flesh golem spell.
    • The Seraph now has the same collateral damage values than the rest of the units with the Berserker unit class.
    BarbsPlus changes
    • Concept page for Wilderness.
    • Grand Menagerie now requires 6 out of 8 specific animal buildings.
    • Lair Exploration is less likely to spawn a unit.
    • Exploration odds are now displayed correctly.
    • Slightly reduced elephant spawning chance.
    • Animals can now spawn on tiles owned by barbarians.
    • Added Animal Buildings and associated promotions.
    • Added new animals. Removed strong versions of existing animals.
    • Barbarians and animals no longer spawn on 1-tile islands.
    • Barbarian cities now also spawn on uninhabited continents regularly.
    • All barbarian animals now stay in appropriate terrrain, except when they attack.
    • New item reward: Amulet of the Seas
    • New item reward: Radiant Amulet
    • New item reward: Obsidian Spear
    • New item reward: Wyrmslayer
    • New item reward: Ancient Bow
    • New item reward: Patrian Artifact
    • Council of Esus religion and Steward of Esus promotion as lair outcome.
    • Bless as lair outcome promotion.
    • Text for lair outcome promotions that were missing it.
    • New item reward: Menacing Helm
    • New item reward: Heart Amulet
    • New item reward: Compelling Jewel
    • For the horde no longer steals the last city defender.
    • Barbarian World now also works if players start on different continents.
    • Animals no longer spawn on owned plots.
    • New wilderness calculation algorithm for inhabited areas.
    • Removing auto-upgrade of scorpion clan goblins and of high-level spectre to wraith.
    • Added exploration spawn messages.
    • Added Bandits spawn.
    • Forces the Unit AI specified in their spawn information.
    • Min wilderness for spawns now randomly distributed between spawning plot wilderness and used tier min wilderness.
    • Reduced water animal spawning.
    • Graveyard is no longer hidden by trees.
    • Added Wight exploration boss spawn.
    • Removed Fear promotion from Wraith boss spawn.
    • New spawn choice mechanic, updated spawn information.
    • Aeron's chosen grants +10% better results from lair exploration.
    • Added Spanish translation.
    • Fixed some text strings.
    • New item reward: Hauberk of abjuration.
    • Bountyhunter, Courage and Morale grant a +5% exploration bonus. Valor grants a +10% bonus.
    Erebus in the Balance changes
    • Adularia Chamber cost reduced from 180 to 120.
    • Governor's Manor now requires Mathematics instead of Code of Law.
    • Pallens Engine cost reduced from 180 to 120.
    • Planar Gate cost reduced from 200 to 100.
    • Reliquary gains a priest slot. Reliquary cost reduced from 60 to 45.
    • Warrens increase maintenance costs by 10%.
    • Aristocracy now only reduces distance maintenance costs by -20%, instead of by -40%.
    • Caste System upkeep reduced from medium to low. It now grants +1 gold per specialist instead of +1 research per specialist.
    • Conquest moves back to Warfare (from Education).
    • Foreign Trade loses +1 trade route coastal; gains +25% commerce from trade routes.
    • Military State moves back to Military Strategy (from Warfare).
    • Forts now require Masonry instead of Construction.
    • Windmills now require Construction instead of Engineering.
    • Workshops now grant +2 production instead of +1 production. Guilds technology now grants +1 production instead of +2 production to workshops.
    • Sidar Palace grants +1 gold for each priest.
    • Burning Blood now removes the Loyalty promotion.
    • Loyalty now removes the Burning Blood promotion.
    • Wane now requires level 5 instead of level 6.
    • Pact of the Nilhorn cost reduced from 500 to 250.
    • Creative doubles the production speed of Public Baths.
    • Abashi now gains the hero promotion.
    • Airship is no longer a Queen of the Line replacement. The Kuriotates can build both ships now.
    • Drifa now gains the hero promotion.
    • Elephant cost set to 60. Although they are still cannot be built, this makes the upgrade to War Elephant cheaper.
    • Eurabatres now gains the hero promotion.
    • Monks gain Drill I and Mobility II. Monks lose 2 base moves. Movement decreased from three to one.
    • Queen of the Line base combat increased from 9 to 16.
    • Triremes now have +50% combat bonus versus Galleys.
    • Minimum civic swap time changed from 9 to 8. This allows to change civics twice in a single golden age.
    Events Enhanced changes
    • Removed event "That Kind of Day".
    • "Friendly Locals" event now only triggers on unowned plots.
    • Witch event tweaks.
    • Event options no longer erroneously swap unhealthiness in one city versus all cities.
    • Added some artist credit.
    MapScriptTools changes
    • The map size of all mst MapScripts is now proportional to the actual Fall from Heaven 2 map sizes instead of being hardcoded.
    More Naval AI changes
    • When Hyborem or Basium are resurrected, the civilization will get its leader traits back.
    • Unhealthiness in city and global unhealthiness was swapped in Event description
    • Scenarios can now be used again.
    • Barbarian cities with culture can no longer be culture flipped.
    • Improvements to how the AI attacks cities.
    • AI will use commerceWeight values when valuing buildings that add commerce.
    • AI will build more troops when at war.
    • AI will place more value on feature clearing techs when they have blocked resources.
    • AI should place a little more value on techs that allow commerce improvements and little less on religions.
    • Improved AI evaluation of Pyre zombies.
    • Tweaks to how the AI values pursuing Tower and Altar victories.
    • Improved evaluation of resources by the AI.
    • Slightly increased situational awareness when AI is valuing spells that add or remove promotions.
    • AI patrol groups more likely to explore lairs and deal with nearby danger.
    • Workboats no longer flagged as MilitaryProduction.
    • Dragons are now Disease Immune.
    • Research bonuses from resources are now displayed as a percentage increase in the research mouseover in the city screen.
    • Mithril is more valued by the AI.
    • AI be less crazy about offering deals when Advanced Tactics is on.
    • AI gives some value to Canal and Choke points.
    • AI is now less interested in water tiles until it can work them.
    • Puppet States now get a few more initial defenders on creation.
    • Players are no longer able to make multiple Puppets from a civilization.
    • Puppet States created by Infernals will no longer retain Demonic Citizens.
    • River of Blood message will now include the name of the affected city as well as the real amount of population lost.
    • Deals will no longer auto cancel.
    • Vicar ability can now be cast for its dispel effects even if there's no invisible/hidden nationality units around.
    • Infernals will no longer create the Glory Everlasting project.
    • FreePromotionPick buildings were giving extra experience to units built in the city.
    • Updated Worldbuilder.
    • Production from chopping is no longer set to settlements.
    • The game will no longer announce which civilization has built the Pact of the Nilhorn.
    • Update text for Revolutions game option to make it clearer that it is incomplete.
    • Erebus_mst added to the list of MapScripts that have no equator for End of Winter.
    • MoreCiv4lerts will no longer say that a civilization in crusade is ready to capitulate
    • The turns required for double culture wonders are now calculated correctly. They are displayed in turns instead of in years.
    • World break (and city fire events) are no longer allowed to destroy certain structures.
    • Creating a puppet state will no longer cause an OOS error.
    • An inquisition interrupted by city raze would cause an exception.
    • Fixed crash when playing with require complete kills.
    • Attitude modifier, free promotion and mutation chance for bonuses are now displayed in the bonus help and sevopedia.
    • Puppet states retain the original civilization.
    • Added missing text tags.
    • Added fixed Islands and Archipelago MapScripts.
    • Removed the Nuclear Dissuasion player option.
    • Tweaks to how Hyborem's starting location is chosen.
    • Immmortal units will no longer be reborn if they die as cargo.
    • AI should be a little more interested in promotions that grant first strike.
    • Limited Borders no longer linked to Open Borders agreements.
    • Fix the capital city visibility issue when trading embassies.
    • AI should be more interested in Limited Borders trades.
    • Flagged some units for trade.
    • Units that can abandon players cannot be traded.
    • Players will now see a message when a Puppet State is legitimized.
    • Great Generals will now use civ-specific artwork if it is available.
    • Tweaks to naval assaults and naval settler transports.
    • Tweaks to city production code.
    • AI should be more willing to build Escort Naval units.
    • AI should not build Missionary Sea units if they don't have a religion.
    • AI should be more willing to offer Embassy trades and research techs that unlock Embassy
    • Updated some Council vote text so that they don't mention the U.N.
    • Fix for units with Blitz and Defensive Strike getting too many defensive strikes when the Quick Combat option is not enabled.
    • Displaying culture garrison value in unit mouseover info.
    • Fix for ships being able to get around cargo restrictions with various ship promotion spells.
    • Setted LimitedBordersRefuseAttitudeThreshold to a proper attitude level.
    • Fixed issues that were messing with the AI's ability to calculate war values.
    • HN units can no longer capture cities (they will auto raze instead).
    • Barbarian cities created due to the Barbarian World option should be more spread out now.
    • Events should no longer occur on peaks if they have a required terrain.
    • Support for allowing specialists to increase or reduce happiness and health.
    • Advanced Diplomacy 2.8.
    • Update to the Ai decision on when to cast River of Blood.
    • Blockades no longer become permanent.
    • Fix and minor tweaks to the Infernal spawning code.
    • Puppet States are no longer allowed to cast World Spells.
    • Fixed Spanish translation.
    • Bulbing techs is no longer possible with random units.
    • Fixes related to city radius and settlements.
    • Fixed a possible CTD caused by missing updateWorkingCity() calls.

    In the first post of this thread you can find a summary of what ExtraModMod offers, along with the links for downloads, wiki, features, future plans and other useful information.
    DarkLunaPhantom likes this.
  13. spaceman98

    spaceman98 Plotting something

    Sep 1, 2010
    It has occurred to me that For the Horde has been getting slowly weaker over time. The biggest nerfs being that non-orcish units can't be stolen (in vanilla FFH I could get a Son of the Inferno and use my early game fireball mage to burn through all resistance) and then that the number of non-orc barbarians increased significantly. This is another subtle but significant nerf. By now it seems like it would have low unit yields overall, and scattered on small clumps over a very wide area. Has this affected game balance?[/QUOTE]
  14. Jojo_Fr

    Jojo_Fr Prince

    Mar 17, 2013
    This is awesome Terkhen ! Thank you very much. We will play it in multiplayer for sure !
  15. Terkhen

    Terkhen King

    Aug 1, 2011
    I agree, that's very likely. And as we progress with BarbsPlus it is likely to get worse. Maybe instead of only stealing orc units, it should be able to steal most barbarian units except demons, animals and winter units (and maybe I am forgetting some other possible exceptions). It would still not be able to steal Sons of the Inferno though.

    Great! As with 0.5.2, I'm reasonably sure that the build is entirely OOS error free, which means that there must be an OOS error lurking somewhere. Let me know how it goes! :)
  16. lfgr

    lfgr King

    Feb 6, 2010
    Good to see a new beta released, thanks! I don't currently have the time to polish the animals as needed, but it would be nice to get some feedback in between.

    I already thought about this (https://bitbucket.org/lfgr/barbsplus/issues/138/for-the-horde), but didn't find a satisfying solution. Further suggestions are welcome.
  17. Sigwald

    Sigwald Chieftain

    Aug 17, 2015
  18. Fibonacci1123

    Fibonacci1123 Chieftain

    May 27, 2010
    Looking for a rabbit resource
    Thank you for the new release.

    I tried a game, and I Iove the new animals :love:. I am not sure about diplomacy, the AI seems to want a lot of cash up front for a resource trade.

    I found a problem with the Foreign Trade civic. It is not creating extra trade routes, nor any bonus yield to trade routes. See attached saves.

    Attached Files:

  19. DarkLunaPhantom

    DarkLunaPhantom Prince Supporter

    Feb 4, 2013
    I got this Python exception using the last beta:
    Traceback (most recent call last):
      File "CvRandomEventInterface", line 387, in applyExploreLairDwarfVsLizardmen1
      File "CustomFunctions", line 1028, in findClearPlot
    AttributeError: 'NoneType' object has no attribute 'getX'
    ERR: Python function applyExploreLairDwarfVsLizardmen1 failed, module CvRandomEventInterface
    It was on autoplay, so I cannot tell you what exactly triggered it.
  20. petercordia

    petercordia Chieftain

    Jan 27, 2017
    Thanks for the new release! Version 6 looks cool. I noticed a bug whilst playing with Kuriotates though: the counter which should show the current number of cities and the maximum number of cities, instead displayed the number of cities+settlements.

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