Fall Further 051 Bug Report Thread

[5hadow]

when playing as the Svaltalfar (doubt this matter changes much though) i explored the Pyre of the Seraphic, it worked perfectly fine, but later barbarians (savage) set up a town next to the pyre when exploring it again i get CTD
also on other saved games when the Pyres been under barb borders and i explore i get CTD


also another issue was - i like to play big games with anything from 10-20 civs on, but whenever my save file size reaches around 700kb+ and i load (whilst playing the game) or i finnish a game at that file size and start a new game i get CTD with a memory error
i know that FFH2 had this problem in version 2.040 and Keal managed to sort it out

 

[RogueThunder]

Kuriotate have a bit of an issue in city view.

At 16:9, city view is only 6 tiles tall. 1 short of being able to actually see the top 3 tiles that are workable for kuriotate. You can still just barley click em, so its not an outright game killing issue... Just incredibly inconvenient.

I original ran into this in a mp game. But this is a reproduction, simply added 100 culture to a new game.

 

[Neomega]

The command awarded "tactics II" allows units in the army to get the blitz promotion as long as they also have str. 1.

 

[WarKirby]

The command awarded "tactics II" allows units in the army to get the blitz promotion as long as they also have str. 1.

Not a bug. but maybe a oversight. post in the balance issues thread.

 

[Vehem]

I have seen civs not research festivals (how do you survive without the most important building in the mod, the market??)

As an aside, Edo, I only build markets in some cities, and in some games in general. Usually my economy does just fine without the things, whether I'm Scions, Calabim, Bannor, whatever.

I usually build them, but they aren't high on my priority list. Don't usually need them.

I've added Festivals to the economic preferences - they should pick it up around the same time as Courthouses if they haven't already got it and aren't busy with something else (shortly after gaining their 4th city).

I'd almost rather you force EVERY civ to start with the same general tech path, hitting all the early economy techs. That, and fixing the worker AI could solve much of the problems opponents currently face...

The way it actually goes is that the AI looks for a few early game essentials (defence etc), then alternates between economy techs (based on the number of cities they have) and a war-tech based on a line that they have chosen. Some civs have an early game bee-line as in FfH (Ljosalfar -> FoL etc) and others have a particular war-tech that they will aim for (Hippus -> Mounted). Additionally, some civs will follow a specific path that favours them specifically (Cualli go for Poisons [Assassin], then Necromancy [Priests w. Poisons], then Malevolent Designs [Miquiztli]).

Each "step" of the way however, they'll check for needing a new economic tech (or several). The Hippus for example check that between Horseback Riding and Stirrups, then again between Stirrups and Armored Cavalry.

===

The "teching for improvements" is less vital than usual due to the fact most improvements are available without techs. If they're going for lumbermills, it's because they want extra production on those tiles at no cost to food (making it a better choice than a workshop). In truth - a lumbermill on a grassland is a pretty solid choice in any situation, though I can see your point with regards to commerce needing a higher priority.

 

[WarKirby]

I've added Festivals to the economic preferences - they should pick it up around the same time as Courthouses if they haven't already got it and aren't busy with something else (shortly after gaining their 4th city).



The way it actually goes is that the AI looks for a few early game essentials (defence etc), then alternates between economy techs (based on the number of cities they have) and a war-tech based on a line that they have chosen. Some civs have an early game bee-line as in FfH (Ljosalfar -> FoL etc) and others have a particular war-tech that they will aim for (Hippus -> Mounted). Additionally, some civs will follow a specific path that favours them specifically (Cualli go for Poisons [Assassin], then Necromancy [Priests w. Poisons], then Malevolent Designs [Miquiztli]).

Each "step" of the way however, they'll check for needing a new economic tech (or several). The Hippus for example check that between Horseback Riding and Stirrups, then again between Stirrups and Armored Cavalry.

===

The "teching for improvements" is less vital than usual due to the fact most improvements are available without techs. If they're going for lumbermills, it's because they want extra production on those tiles at no cost to food (making it a better choice than a workshop). In truth - a lumbermill on a grassland is a pretty solid choice in any situation, though I can see your point with regards to commerce needing a higher priority.

It might be a good idea, for evil civs, to have them treat Way of the Wicked as an economic choice. The smuggler's port building, available through the undercouncil, is pretty powerful in terms of gold.

 

[Iceciro]

Last time I played, the Overcouncil resolutions never came up, only the votes for leader, and even in those I could only abstain.

Not a huge deal because the Overcouncil sucks, but hey.

 

[Vehem]

The command awarded "tactics II" allows units in the army to get the blitz promotion as long as they also have str. 1.

Not a bug. but maybe a oversight. post in the balance issues thread.

Such is the benefit of the Tactics line. You get a bit of a bonus to survivability, but also some shortcuts to higher level promotions. Combat promotions are good for making solid fighting units due to their more significant direct strength bonus, Tactics promotions are good for making a specialist unit (a Blitzer or Commando etc).

I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "also have str. 1." though...

It might be a good idea, for evil civs, to have them treat Way of the Wicked as an economic choice. The smuggler's port building, available through the undercouncil, is pretty powerful in terms of gold.

Last time I played, the Overcouncil resolutions never came up, only the votes for leader, and even in those I could only abstain.

Not a huge deal because the Overcouncil sucks, but hey.

It's a fair point - neither is particularly pursued at the moment unless the civ happens to be going for something along those lines (religion, some of the later game beelines - Cualli and Mazatl go for Malevolent Designes/Righteousness respectively for their heroes etc). Anyone who does get them however is more inclined (and able) to trade techs however, so you do get a bit of an effect where one civ "founds" a council and then spreads it amongst their allies...

It might pay to make it a higher priority for evil civs though as you say - and likewise for Overcouncil once it's actually a bit more useful (the +Diplo is very nice though - so may already be worthwhile for the AI if it will encourage trade and co-operation during war etc)

 

[WarKirby]

Such is the benefit of the Tactics line. You get a bit of a bonus to survivability, but also some shortcuts to higher level promotions. Combat promotions are good for making solid fighting units due to their more significant direct strength bonus, Tactics promotions are good for making a specialist unit (a Blitzer or Commando etc).

I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "also have str. 1." though...

What he meant, is that the commander promotion "Battlefield Tactician" grants Tactics I and II to followers, allowing those followers to learn Blitz very easily.
I think perhaps, the point of contention is that temporary commander-granted promotions can be used to fill prereqs for real, permanant promotions. so that after leaving the commander, the unit still has Blitz without any of it's prereqs.

 

[Neomega]

Such is the benefit of the Tactics line. You get a bit of a bonus to survivability, but also some shortcuts to higher level promotions. Combat promotions are good for making solid fighting units due to their more significant direct strength bonus, Tactics promotions are good for making a specialist unit (a Blitzer or Commando etc).

I may be misunderstanding what you mean by "also have str. 1." though...

Well blitz need tactics II and str I I thought, I could be wrong, I guess it just needs tactics II.

I guess what bothers me even more, is the AI could never figure out how awesome this is. Also, the commander tactics actually grants tactics I and tactics II, so the unit gets an extra 30% defensive bonus and 10% extra withdrawal chance, which seems good enough to me for one more promotion, that and it opens up the line to the 3 uber promotions for countering archers, horsemen or melee.

Perhaps there should also be a formation that completely counters marksmen. Meaning marksmen or not, the strongest unit in the army defends.

Last time I played, the Overcouncil resolutions never came up, only the votes for leader, and even in those I could only abstain.

1. you need other people as members
2. When I played, it took forever, like 30 or 40 turns it seemed, even with members, for an undercouncil resolution to come up.

 

[Vehem]

What he meant, is that the commander promotion "Battlefield Tactician" grants Tactics I and II to followers, allowing those followers to learn Blitz very easily.
I think perhaps, the point of contention is that temporary commander-granted promotions can be used to fill prereqs for real, permanant promotions. so that after leaving the commander, the unit still has Blitz without any of it's prereqs.

Ah - learning an ability from spending some time with the commander was intended, though in hindsight Battlefield Tactics would be better as a two tier promotion (requiring the second tier to grant TACTICS2), but having the first tier still allow the current other commander promotions to be taken. Maybe just have the second called "Advanced Battlefield Tactics" rather than change the original too much.

Perhaps there should also be a formation that completely counters marksmen. Meaning marksmen or not, the strongest unit in the army defends

That's what Guardsman does (or rather - it makes the strongest Guardsman defend - meaning it's upto the player to make sure their good defensive units are assigned to be the Guardsmen)

 

[WarKirby]

Ah - learning an ability from spending some time with the commander was intended, though in hindsight Battlefield Tactics would be better as a two tier promotion (requiring the second tier to grant TACTICS2), but having the first tier still allow the current other commander promotions to be taken. Maybe just have the second called "Advanced Battlefield Tactics" rather than change the original too much.

The problem with that though, is that battlefield tactics goes from "nice" to "useless" except in the pathways it allows, I guess. But commanders have such a hard time levelling up already, all their levels are pretty valuable in my experience. You really don't want to use one on something which doesn't provide much benefit.

 

[Iceciro]

Exactly - if the battlefield tactics promotion didn't allow me to quick-promote units to blitz, I'd never take it.

The only acceptable nerfing I could think of is if it actually gave Blitz - then you wouldn't be able to up-promote to Blitz when units were attached, but the units he commanded would be able to really slug it out.

 

[Dean_the_Young]

Alright, here's how it is. I captured Acheron the Red Dragon as the Grigori, and got a damaged Acheron with the Held promotion. I thought to myself, "hm, maybe he just needs to heal," so I waited until he was healed up, but still the held promotion and I couldn't even cast either dragon spell either because he began each turn completely exhausted, just like as under the Barbarians.

Ultimately I just deleted him and edited in another one with World Builder on a continents map with Barbarian World active, but is that normal? Or was I missing something on how to get him to move?

Was playing as Grigori on Warlord difficulty and captured him with an Assassin, if that helps any.

 

[WarKirby]

Alright, here's how it is. I captured Acheron the Red Dragon as the Grigori, and got a damaged Acheron with the Held promotion. I thought to myself, "hm, maybe he just needs to heal," so I waited until he was healed up, but still the held promotion and I couldn't even cast either dragon spell either because he began each turn completely exhausted, just like as under the Barbarians.

Ultimately I just deleted him and edited in another one with World Builder on a continents map with Barbarian World active, but is that normal? Or was I missing something on how to get him to move?

Was playing as Grigori on Warlord difficulty and captured him with an Assassin, if that helps any.

it's a bug. not certain why yet. We'll fix it one way or another.

 

[Vehem]

Exactly - if the battlefield tactics promotion didn't allow me to quick-promote units to blitz, I'd never take it.

The only acceptable nerfing I could think of is if it actually gave Blitz - then you wouldn't be able to up-promote to Blitz when units were attached, but the units he commanded would be able to really slug it out.

Tactics 1 is still a quick-path to March and is required for Ambush, whilst Battlefield Tactics itself is required for any of the Melee line formations (Battleline, Block, Loose).

It also means that you'd only need one actual unit promotion (Tactics 2) to fulfill the prereqs for Blitz, rather than the four you would otherwise (Combat 1 - 4). The Advanced Combat Tactics would simply reduce that further to be 0 required promotions.

It just seems very powerful to go from FfH with 4 levels of prereq for Blitz, to normal FF with a shortcut that only requires 2 and then to a single Commander promotion that means it's effectively 0 for any unit that follows the Commander. A player can intentionally use the commander to train the troops in Blitz whilst in his army and then release them to the general populace. If there isn't a significant opportunity cost for the commander, that action does become a little exploitive...

 

[WarKirby]

It just seems very powerful to go from FfH with 4 levels of prereq for Blitz, to normal FF with a shortcut that only requires 2

Tactics is not a shortcut to blitz, it's only an alternate route

Tactics I requires Combat I.
Tactics II requires Tactics I and Drill I

you still need 4 promotions to get blitz. it's just a different (and IMO, worse) route to get there, not a shorter one.

Also, tactics promotions are only available to archer/melee/mounted/recon. I guess that covers most things, but it does leave out beasts and disciples. so yvain, sphener, mardero, chalid, high priests, dragons, baron, etc, still need to go the drill route

 

[Andvare]

Yeah, the problem here is that you can, as Bannor, give your captain one promotion, and then cycle your units through him, using only one promotion to get blitz. That is quite a "short cut", id' call it an exploit.

 

[shannonlynch]

Playing v.51 patch B, playing the Austrin - I tried to look at the Units screen of the Civolepedia and got a python error (repeatable even after exiting game and starting a new game with the Austrin). The error is attached.

If I ignored the error - I can only see units alphabetically up to and including Lizardman Shaper.

 

[WarKirby]

I think this is related to the Austrin longbow artstyle type, which I need to fix.

Can you confirm that it only happens with the Austrin ?

Also, can you see things after the longbowman?

i'm 99% sure that's the cause here