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Fall Further - The Original Thread

Discussion in 'Fall Further' started by Vehem, Feb 22, 2008.

  1. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    And one little lol: Egrass the Founder, working by hammering his shield with his sword.
    (Response on this one is not required; it was written up there somewhere already:))
    I picture him rather disemboweling his foes with his great showel
     
  2. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    About Jotnar staeddings: if we're talking those ogir staeddings from Wheel of Time there was a matter of anti-magic field covering entire staedding territory. Important part of the reason for a small staedding size which i do not see in any way reflected in the game rules.

    Though i recall that Jotuns from the corresponding haim were also a fortress-builders, but these were evil. And very-very warlike. And also very expansive. And there were no orcs.
     
  3. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    "A Beautiful wall IS a Functional Wall. Who would dare to lob rocks at the majestic trellised rampart of Evermore?"

    May i humbly offer this instead?

    "A truly beautiful wall is undestructible wall. Do not confuse beauty originating from perfection for prettiness of unnecessary embellishments."
     
  4. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    On 'Bounty Hunter' promotion: as i cannot see any Hutt cartel paying those bounties (and even text message says "Our forces have plundered ... gold from ... ") then why not rename it as 'Marauder' or 'Corpse Robber' and add some variability to the amount of loot, whether random or strength/faction/equipment-based? I like to recall those Majesty ratmen who stole gold from my market which then was shared by my valiant rat-slaying heroes.
    And if you want bounty hunters that badly then active and present counsil of Esus can always pay REAL bounties for slain heroes and archmages - yes, yes! a quest! Kill the designated target and return alive to claim your reward... or dagger in the back.
     
  5. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    A troll exercise with the club. Very adorable. I usually use a wall or a bottle to club myself on the head, a vegetable marrow works the best.
    ...And now my troll hunter is rearmed with some hybrid of glaive and dai-katana and so he slits his own throat and cleaves his head in half. Troll regeneration...
     
  6. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    I may also advise to remove the word... urgh... 'job' from the texts whenever it exists there for the sake of deep loathing some of us are holding for this word and those who wield it. Especially from a creed of an orcish killer for hire.
    By the way i am almost completely certain that there is no such thing as an ork - hired killer. Even a fabled Bakstabba wasn't killing for payment on a ... urgh once more, j... well you know what i mean.
     
  7. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    Spellcasting without channeling
    Some units as elohim devout or malakim worker are able to cast spells whilst do not possess the channeling promotion. While gp reason for that is clear - they must not be able to learn additional spells - it may cause some confusion implying that a channelling skill is unnecessary for spellcasting.
    Thus we (to add the 'shock' and 'cover' into the consideration) are coming to conclusion that promotion system is an unsorted mess of some things that must be separated. A brilliant attempt at such a deed was made when the golems of the Luchuirp, unable to receive a power as the living beings do, were granted 'cover' by event of "tower shields". And so a fundamental separation must be done between the traits presenting growth of power first, advanced training second and inborn/inherent/built-in ability at third.

    The first group shall be left at present xp-based way and shall include 'combat', 'sentry', 'channeling' with number more than 1, 'mobility' and other skills and strengths that are growing naturally with increase of power xp represents.

    The second shall bring clarity to training which is not supposed to empower trained subjects, but to enhance their skills ant teach them something new; it shall include 'drill' and 'shock' (the 'cover' should be item-based on that tower shield, as 'climbing kit') and schools of magic to be taught by teachers like Govannon (another lone example of something that should be brought en masse) or at the libraries where tomes reside.
    The clerics should receive their spells without training as their gods shall grant them, restricted only by a channeled amount and not by nodes as their power stems from gods. And a connection between the clerics' power and converted land and population may be presented as a rule.
    Also a mage may learn at any time any spell in theory, but being able to perform it only when the source and skill for it suffice. So limited spellcasters as devout should be restricted in receiving further education, though why? An number of known spells of course be level-based.

    There is a mana transmutation, a metamagic feat which represented partially by the choice of a type of mana nodes being built but may be at the great expence performed with an any mana type, so for 2 of any mana points you can receive one desired. Some 'metamagic' stuff provided - tech and costly building.

    And third is understood and used wide enough.

    An MoM example should be noted, when each side had spellcaster one and only - the ruling wizard. And heroes were just relays and conduits for him (irrelevant, or her, or it).

    Post scriptum: Yes, a large amount of posts i had provided may seem unusual to some, but why should i to be reluctant, and how it may discourage others from a further writing?
     
  8. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    ...And so i sat and meditatively stared at my snowy lands, pre-planning my Ascent, and another Sid's nonsense occured to me that was always there:
    Mines - on the top of the hills - what are they unearthing and smelting from where there no resource deposits?
    And so i thought that it would be sensible to reduce them into on-top-of resource only and either add their production bonus to cottages or make workshops available instead or redraw these mines into quarries - "extracting building stone from devoid-of-metal hills for city construction" - which shall add a small cumulative discount for in-settlement buildings only as artisans workshop does it. So in order to boost the military production it would be necessary to really focus on workshops in detriment for everyother. See German industrial centers' surroundings or Detroit.
     
  9. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    A notice on Auric's ice: it does not provides +1 coin on riverside. Is that an intended penalty (though contradictory to the insane Winter Tech bonuses from FfH), representation of waned power of ice or specifics of ice-based economy - or a simple undersight on behalf of esteemed developers?
     
  10. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    Some thoughts on the strange outlines of the White Hand as 'religion-that-is-not-a-religion'
    Clearly White Hand must be represented as quite ordinary religion along with the others Leafs and Veils. It does follows from the phrase "priests of the White hand were generally tolerated by most" that the White Hand can spread to the other civs. And no, Auric 'Ulvin' as leader is not agnostic. To call him that is almost as hilarious as to call any god 'agnostic', as he is, potentially, almost a god. Not to mention a leader of his own religion. So, obviously, the Illians civ must be simply locked on Theocracy civic or it special modification as it was done with Jotnar.

    (Cassiel had been named 'agnostic' properly, as he rejects any worship of himself and does not displays neither 'divine' behaviour towards mortals nor supplication to other gods)

    Btw, i was unpleasantly surprised that on the next turn after founding world Leafs religion one of my Illians towns had catched it. Unpleasant disturbance in the fabric of my dominion, and no means to correct it for a long-long time.
     
  11. Rainbowsand

    Rainbowsand Warlord

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    Common misunderstanding of barbarians and another clearly ironical Sid's nonsence called The Barbarian State.
    First a slight detour, featuring partially true and partially imagined events of distant past:
    There were those legendary times when Alpha Centauri was created, by fellowship of greedy and cunning Sid, and wise and knowing Brian that was full of wisdom and of knowledge, imbued with classical philosophy and presenting models of enlightened societies ruled by harmony and reason - along with a more nasty ones.
    Its sales had failed.
    Then Sid and Brian sat and pondered and then Brian had decided that it wisdom, knowledge and realistic sophistication was not enough. Sid had cynically smiled, and together with many others they had created Alien Crossfire.
    It had gone unnoticed.
    And then with cynical smile Sid had revealed to Brian a sacramental truth - that the gaming world (especially within its us-english-speaking part) was populated largely by DUDES who in general tended to be not intelligent enough to find a cracked game least to perform a protection removal by themselves and not appreciative of classic philosophy left alone a futuristic one.
    And then together with many others, and cynical smiles, and gleeful vengefulness they had created Civs that were full of nonsense, and stupid prejudices, and thus complementary with the DUDES conditioned mindsets.
    Their sales had boomed.
    (For some interesting acknowledgements by Sid and Brian themselves look into Firaxians faction text file in Alpha install directory)

    In original FfH2 i had witnessed a scene that impressed me most deeply: my heavily escorted worker group had poked out of borders to connect another settlement and instantly in a 180 degrees arc all Bears (some of whom had been waiting next to my borders immovably for some 50 turns) were inexorably drawn towards my units from about 5 squares range. That was more spectacular than the Night of the Living Dead. Tyranid Hive mind. No less. Thankfully, in FF they act more individually.


    So, i presume that detour jeopardised the conveying of my concepts not, and return to
    Barbarians State tm and misunderstanding of barbarians, also widespread in-between those playing Majesty.
    They all view animals, barbs and other monsters as threat that tries their patience (in dude dialect, "pisses them off") by menacing their settlements and workers and (if allowed) pillaging improvements. So they make their first priority to demolish any lairs they can find which is ultimately wrong. Because the large corps of ultra-elite units is an ultimate thing to have. And so in any of my FF and FfH games i do find myself in desperate lack of animals and monsters. My battle groups are patiently guarding any lair or city-barb in hope somebody spawns sometimes. My hunters venture around world to fill my empire needs of caged beasts.
    So beasts and barbs are precious resource.

    An obvious note should be added to counter a question which shall no-doubt arise: and what about wars? The monster hunt does incurs less losses as opponent can be singled and largely predicted by the hunters group. And keep ongoing war for sake of unit training is nonsence as warring towns are much more useful when conquered and integrated. War weariness. And diplomatic escalation like "my friend dislikes you because you war his friend, so i declare war on you!"

    And thus the two most questionable parts are those:
    First, why the brigands and marauders do have a towns?? Which they do place so inconveniently that most of them i sentence to destruction. Instead of ONLY handy lairs that can be kept within my borders for the hunt? And founding more LAIRS not settlements as game progresses AND improving level of existing ones like castles and cottages so it can be still one square (ah, i anticipate FfH on Civ 5 engine when there shall be hexes!) but spawn more stronger faster?
    And second, why the animals afraid to cross the cultural boundary (as i did mentioned earlier in need of modifying into the ruler's domain, see Age of Wonders 2) when they are not aware what it is?
    When they should be obviously unable to spawn and unwilling to prowl in an improved land?
    Oh, yes, the scripting reasons...

    And one technical detail in which FfH is actually better that FF: in FfH barbarians do spawn in waves.

    Last thing to add: TD and DotA aspects in FfH, if properly embedded and improved, shall make those barbs a third of game and almost most exciting.
     
  12. forumtroll

    forumtroll Chieftain

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    Is there a way to make the sprite art stay put? For most of the civilisations the art reverts to whatever it was modelled on. Kindof pointless!

    Thanks.
     
  13. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Go into options, turn off 'Frozen Animations' under the Graphics tab.
     
  14. forumtroll

    forumtroll Chieftain

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    brilliant, thanks very much.

    oh, and +1 for the creators of FfH, FF, and the other mods. It's all ingeenyus! cheers.
     
  15. Panda_Power

    Panda_Power Warlord

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    This is an amazing Modmod! I've started playing as Archos because I love/hate spiders and the artwork is so creepy!

    I'm only playing on "settler" level because I'm new to Civ 4 (my first ever Civ game) and the learning curve is huge, but very enjoyable! It's just so hard knowing what to research first and build first when there are so many things to choose from!

    Anyway...thanks for all the hard work that went into this...it is really appreciated!:)
     
  16. DrunkenOrc

    DrunkenOrc Chieftain

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    So, this may seem like a really rude question at first, but I want to ask anyways.

    Is Fall Further worth getting? I see a lot of positive feedback, but I also see a bug report post that hasn't been updated since '09 and has some pretty serious issues on it. Is it still being worked on a lot? Should I wait to try it until a better version comes out? WILL a better version come out? I see there's a hiatus of some sort, but all to often I see hiatus fall into disrepair.

    So, basically, to sum it all up, can I play this mod and expect to find an amount of bugs roughly equal to or less than standard Fall from Heaven? Or is it a tad worse? Or is it really buggy right now?

    Thanks.
     
  17. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    It hasn't been actively worked on for quite some time. The bugs aren't really too serious (unless you play MP), though.

    That said, most (if not all) content of FF is in RifE, which IS actively worked on.
     
  18. Iceciro

    Iceciro Special Ability: Decimate

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    The MP bugs are even work-around-able if you're willing to lose ranged attacks and a couple of civs (Jotnar/Kuriotates) Modules to do that are in the Fall To Pieces link in my sig.

    I really need to try RIFE and see how its coming along.
     
  19. Valkrionn

    Valkrionn The Hamster King

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    Will be better after 1.3 haha. Ranged OOS fixed, for one, thanks to Snarko. And some awesome new features, including (unannounced as yet, so I'm wondering when it gets back to the RifE forums) a fully integrated Influence Driven War mechanic. Not optional, as you can receive boosts to it via trait/promotion/building; For now, Defender, Conqueror, and Raiders all have a boost of some kind or another.
     
  20. DrunkenOrc

    DrunkenOrc Chieftain

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    Alright, thanks. That's useful to know.

    Cia.
     

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