Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Tarquelne]

Xienwolf recently came up with a promotion tag that implements the "PillageOnMove" function

Cool! I've been wanting one of those...

The Reasoning
/snip/

I agree with all that.

(I'm on the fence about whether or not "Raider" in unbalanced in MP, btw. Against the AI, though, automatic Commando is indeed very nasty.)

Possible accompanying compromise/rebalance
Commando set to require Combat 3 instead of Combat 4.

I'd plump for Combat 4 except I think Combat 3 is much easier to reach, and Commando stacks can be a lot of fun.

...err... OTOH Auto-pillage could be extremely powerful in a Commando. (Hey, would they pillage roads?)

 

[Vehem]

I'd plump for Combat 4 except I think Combat 3 is much easier to reach, and Commando stacks can be a lot of fun.

Aye - I wanted to make sure they'd still be an option and I can't actually remember the last time I gave Commando to a non-Hero unit (normally Valin, Rosier or Kithra) simply because of the high prereq. It had the same problem in BtS, though with Railroads it could be very useful indeed, which made it more tempting.

...err... OTOH Auto-pillage could be extremely powerful in a Commando. (Hey, would they pillage roads?)

Possibly - would have to ask Xien, though they can probably be told not to fairly easily.

 

[xienwolf]

Auto-Pillage won't destroy Roads, specifically so that Commando Units are not suffering from what is meant to be a beneficial effect to the attacker. Though you can of course still Pillage a road manually if you desire to do so.

 

[Slvynn]

Done Sadly you can't see the staff in the 'pedia view, but he does pull it out from somewhere when there's fighting to be done.

The only change made at all was that I disposed of the TeamColour sections (never been a fan and I already had the symbols in the relevant places from the old one).

Overall - I reckon those two units turned out brilliantly - big well done to you and NikNaks methinks .

brilliant job , they look awesome. Need more one eye for follower though

any ideas of implemention ex-psion concept art? powerfull jinns that can be upgraded at some level in those Mammon transormations of normall djinns - and those are more powerfull.

Also had idea about gnostlings... mayt be you will put just one body on unit model? i mean, no 5 ones - 1st reminds goblins very much, and since they are magic creatures and stronger , may be it iwll be cool just use 1 gnostling.
If they used wit affinity they are really powerfull units .

Also we should think about balancing somehow Mammon and Oghma paths....
Atm Oghma path is powerfull and balancing total lack of heroes and religion very well.
Gnostlings +1 metamagic affinity
Basic 4 towers are very easy to build usinbg metamagic node spamming.
Tower of Mastery easy to build.
Kadh , hero, +2 metamagic affinity
Alot of powerfull summons and powefull mages
Scienece increased greatly
Hight Sage GPP

Builder / Defensive late gameplay.

Mammon -
Psion 1 mind affinity, powerfull unit with mind 3
Income
Production
More powerfull djinns (stronger , eviler ones, with spells)
More 3 nodes to use instantly on acomplishment of Mammon Shrine
No heroes
Some merchant GPp
weak gnostlings ? seems good
Hapiness from Mind mana, cumulative

More offensive / warmongering gameplay


Small 2 techs, both need strenght of will as prequisite.
"The Path of Truth"
"The Will, The Power"
Work like small religion techs only for Kadh, Once 1 resereached - other one cant be never researched.
Both of them Unlock Shrines, of Oghma , and of Mammon.

Also seems atm Kadhi need some early game buff... atm they are very weak and feeble, at least till moment they have sorcery and followers.
Gnostlings are weak while no nodes (3 str total till Sorcery - need metamagic node)
(they are still AWESOME scouts though with Flying Eye, 3 str , 2 movement)
May be just bit increased summon/plannar gate spawns - like early buildings to activate good units to come?

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

i love the idea of an autopillage. any chace of you uplaoding a modular mod for that Xien? i wnat to add it to the Warhammer mod

 

[Ekolite]

Hey Vehem, haven't posted here in ages but I thought i'd say this new civ looks pretty cool. At first I thought there'd be too much overlap with the amurites but it seems like you're avoiding this pretty well. Make sure that they spawn more units/stronger units in the late game to keep up with other civs.

Also, love the raider idea, definately do it.

 

[Vehem]

brilliant job , they look awesome. Need more one eye for follower though

any ideas of implemention ex-psion concept art? powerfull jinns that can be upgraded at some level in those Mammon transormations of normall djinns - and those are more powerfull.

Also had idea about gnostlings... mayt be you will put just one body on unit model? i mean, no 5 ones - 1st reminds goblins very much, and since they are magic creatures and stronger , may be it iwll be cool just use 1 gnostling.
If they used wit affinity they are really powerfull units .

Also we should think about balancing somehow Mammon and Oghma paths....
Atm Oghma path is powerfull and balancing total lack of heroes and religion very well.
Gnostlings +1 metamagic affinity
Basic 4 towers are very easy to build usinbg metamagic node spamming.
Tower of Mastery easy to build.
Kadh , hero, +2 metamagic affinity
Alot of powerfull summons and powefull mages
Scienece increased greatly
Hight Sage GPP

Builder / Defensive late gameplay.

Mammon -
Psion 1 mind affinity, powerfull unit with mind 3
Income
Production
More powerfull djinns (stronger , eviler ones, with spells)
More 3 nodes to use instantly on acomplishment of Mammon Shrine
No heroes
Some merchant GPp
weak gnostlings ? seems good
Hapiness from Mind mana, cumulative

More offensive / warmongering gameplay


Small 2 techs, both need strenght of will as prequisite.
"The Path of Truth"
"The Will, The Power"
Work like small religion techs only for Kadh, Once 1 resereached - other one cant be never researched.
Both of them Unlock Shrines, of Oghma , and of Mammon.

Also seems atm Kadhi need some early game buff... atm they are very weak and feeble, at least till moment they have sorcery and followers.
Gnostlings are weak while no nodes (3 str total till Sorcery - need metamagic node)
(they are still AWESOME scouts though with Flying Eye, 3 str , 2 movement)
May be just bit increased summon/plannar gate spawns - like early buildings to activate good units to come?

I'm actually leaning toward having Kahd emerge on either path, though in rather different ways. The Oghma path currently grants a 50% extra limit on Gate-creatures and triples the rate at which they arrive, whilst the Mammon enables the Psions (not hard-capped at one, but you'll need to do a lot of work to earn a second).

==

Regarding the Techs, I believe a "Double Worldspell" will serve the same purpose. I want to have a "flavour popup" appear when you reach Strength of Will to make sure the player knows what has happened in the story, and then enable both Worldspells (Knowledge and Truth, Greed and Power). I haven't checked it yet, but the mechanic for world spells should automatically stop the player from casting the second one after the first is used (it sets a FEAT on the player).

Oh - and I'm just flat out banning Birthright Regained this time

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

Regarding the Techs, I believe a "Double Worldspell" will serve the same purpose. I want to have a "flavour popup" appear when you reach Strength of Will to make sure the player knows what has happened in the story, and then enable both Worldspells (Knowledge and Truth, Greed and Power). I haven't checked it yet, but the mechanic for world spells should automatically stop the player from casting the second one after the first is used (it sets a FEAT on the player).

Oh - and I'm just flat out banning Birthright Regained this time

ooo sounds interesting.. any hints what they will do?

 

[Demus]

about the auto-pillage: how will this work on towns? Will they be completely demolished instantly, or dropped down 1 level each time a unit steps on the town?

 

[Slvynn]

But Time Stop is also good ... lets keep it ... its great and powefull.

also do you mean that world spells will build a shrines? because you need buildings to activate effects of "regimes"

 

[Psychic_Llamas]

id rather find out what Vehem has planned before you force timestop on us he hasnt let us down yet and i cant see him doing so any time soon

 

[Slvynn]

id rather find out what Vehem has planned before you force timestop on us he hasnt let us down yet and i cant see him doing so any time soon

didnt understood meaning of your post...
Time Stop is worldspell that stops all other empires activities (units cant move, anarchy) for 3/5/7/10 turns depends of game speed.

 

[Jean Elcard]

Just released my new mapscript module for flavoury starting locations working for almost any map. It's a massively enhanced version of Dreiche2's old FfH flavor map mod, especially designed for Fall Further and Fall from Heaven to let the the elves start in forest, lizards in junge etc. If someone is interested, then please follow this link: FlavourMod Thread.

I'm very interested in feedback, which parts should be changed etc. Thanks, J. Elcard.

 

[xienwolf]

@PL: It is an SDK/DLL change for the Autopillage, so no modules. But it is documented fairly clearly what to do if you are already modding the DLL anyway.



Autopillage will act exactly like Pillaging, so a Town becomes a Village, becomes a Hamlet, becomes a Cottage, becomes just a road, becomes clear tile.

Currently it also destroys Features, and I haven't decided completely, but I think that I like it that way personally (it doesn't destroy Permanent Features. Or at least, not the Pool of Tears where I tested it).

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Currently it also destroys Features, and I haven't decided completely, but I think that I like it that way personally (it doesn't destroy Permanent Features. Or at least, not the Pool of Tears where I tested it).

May I assume you mean Unique Features, like the Pillar of the Seraphic, which are actually improvements? It doesn't automatically clear Forests, right?

 

[Vehem]

But Time Stop is also good ... lets keep it ... its great and powefull.

As it's written, it's *very* powerful. Plus there's not really any relation between the Kahdi and "time" specifically.

 

[Slvynn]

Kadhi Axeman for your pleasure:
Vehem can you please make preview of pedia/in game? because i dont know how to add fast units into a game....

 

[GhostQ]

Umm, Vehem, a lot is going on here . When can we expect a new download? A new download as in the mod-mods merging into FF? And what about the new race, Kadh?
( I assume Kadh is not too soon though )

 

[Vehem]

Umm, Vehem, a lot is going on here . When can we expect a new download? A new download as in the mod-mods merging into FF? And what about the new race, Kadh?
( I assume Kadh is not too soon though )

They'll all be at the same time - as soon as they're finished

 

[Vehem]

Kadhi Axeman for your pleasure:
Vehem can you please make preview of pedia/in game? because i dont know how to add fast units into a game....

I've just added him in - I think when you saved it you kept the existing Mipmaps as at distant zoom levels he appeared red (as it used the smaller resolution Mipmap). I've resaved it without them and it's fine now.

Looks good though