Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

Well I started a new game with my beloved Malakins and I have it again... first game was turn 280 this one turn 212 (normal speed). Dovielo and Balsheraph are the only other civilization comun of the two games. When I finish this turn the game play all the other AI civs and then crash to the desktop. I am playing FF last version with patch B and FFH032 with media pack and last patch.

It seems to happen just when my turn start and I get two red messages in the turn log but the program crashes faster than my eyes ability to focus...

Does there is a way to have some log files/error files/ debug mode with this game to it track down????

Cheers

There are a few ways to track it down - though the easiest thing to do is to post a save of that game just before it's due to crash and I'll attempt to replicate it.

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Failing that, you can try eliminating large chunks of the map in Worldbuilder (such as wiping out a civ, or all civs on a continent) and check if the problem persists. If you can prevent the crash by removing a civ, try to do so again but only remove half of the cities. If it crashes, try removing the other half...

Often you can track down the specific unit/city that may be causing trouble this way - it's pretty much what I do if I receive a save game with a reproducible crash.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Civ4lerts and the Scions:
Darksaber1's correct: You can turn off the city-growth notification at the BUG options screen.

Possibly I should have been clearer - I'm aware of that option, but that notification is extremely useful except with fallow civs, when it's a nuiscance - I was requesting it be suppressed for them even when the option is on. It's not a big thing, just a little request.

 

[Vehem]

Possibly I should have been clearer - I'm aware of that option, but that notification is extremely useful except with fallow civs, when it's a nuiscance - I was requesting it be suppressed for them even when the option is on. It's not a big thing, just a little request.

Sorted - I think.

Haven't tried it with the Scions and their +1000 food trick, but it seems to work for Hyborem (he's not complaining about city size about to shrink).

	def checkCity(self, iTurn, iCityID, city, iPlayer, player):
		if (BugAlerts.isShowCityPendingGrowthAlert() [b]and not gc.getPlayer(iPlayer).hasTrait(gc.getInfoTypeForString('TRAIT_FALLOW'))):[/b]
			iFoodRate = city.foodDifference(True)
			if (iFoodRate > 0 and city.getFoodTurnsLeft() == 1
[...]

 

[Raize]

Ah - can you post either the stack trace or the mini-dump from the debugger then? That could help a lot with tracing it. Should be 2-3MB, but less than 500KB compressed.

(if Civ4 asks whether you want a "Full" or "Normal" dump, it's the "Normal" option - it's saved in "C:\Documents and Settings\<user>\Local Settings\Temp\Civ4BeyondTheSword.exe.dmp")

EDIT: Just tried running through it myself - seems the diplomacy was Tasunke looking for a hand out. No crash. Looks to be a very impressive game though - is that a slightly bigger than huge map?

Unfortunately, when I try to upload the Minidump, it fails. The minidump is only 11 KB, and is still reproducing for me.

 

[Vehem]

Unfortunately, when I try to upload the Minidump, it fails. The minidump is only 11 KB, and is still reproducing for me.

You'll need to zip it to upload it here methinks.

 

[KingOfLands]

This one may actually be a FFH bug generally, or a Scions of Patria one (as I've got them loaded too), but I figured I'd post it here first since I was playing the Cualli when it happened. Hopefully you have a FFH + Scions folder somewhere; if not, I'll apply to Tarquelne for a remedy.

Apparently, if you kill off Beeri Bawl while he controls the Pieces of Barnaxus, the game firmly believes that he's still in the game, despite giving his loss speech. This has been somewhat of a problem for my plans for a Conquest victory.

In the attached save, the pieces can be found on the southern of the two continents I control, near the assassins and adept who are fogbusting in the wreckage of the Luichurip kingdom. I cannot retake control of them, and they just sort of lie there looking silly.

Also I'm not altogether sure how a Tectonics game set, so far as I remember clicking, to 60% water came out looking like THAT.

 

[Demus]

i haven't checked the save game, but you should be able to pick them up. Once the equipment (which the pieces are) is under your control, not beeri's, the victory should be yours.
This was impleted in vanilla FFH to prevent equipments like orthus axe from disappearing when you kill off an entire civ.

 

[Vehem]

i haven't checked the save game, but you should be able to pick them up. Once the equipment (which the pieces are) is under your control, not beeri's, the victory should be yours.
This was impleted in vanilla FFH to prevent equipments like orthus axe from disappearing when you kill off an entire civ.

Aye - this is pretty much the case as I understand it. The race is destroyed, but then they are granted a single unit back (the pieces) which confuses matters a little. I'd assume (haven't checked) that the same issue could occur with the vanilla FfH.

 

[KingOfLands]

i haven't checked the save game, but you should be able to pick them up. Once the equipment (which the pieces are) is under your control, not beeri's, the victory should be yours.
This was impleted in vanilla FFH to prevent equipments like orthus axe from disappearing when you kill off an entire civ.

Although attempting to pick them up did not work with a unit standing in the square when I loaded that save, I tried moving an Assassin in and it gave me the "Do you want to declare war on Beeri?" dialog, then eliminated him. Very odd, though; for a while I could neither attack 'em nor pick them up despite my best efforts, perhaps because I made peace with Beeri's ghost after noticing he was still in the game despite my best effort. Can gnomes play dead?

Now I can build some boats and show Charadon my lizardmen. Sadly there don't seem to be gems anywhere for me to try out the priests, but the Cualli are definitely a good time, as I mentioned in the strategy subforum.

 

[Vehem]

Now I can build some boats and show Charadon my lizardmen. Sadly there don't seem to be gems anywhere for me to try out the priests, but the Cualli are definitely a good time, as I mentioned in the strategy subforum.

I've moved the "BonusPrereq" in line with the other priest units - you only need Gems to build the Shadow Priests now - normal Priests of Agruonn will no longer need them.

Notably, Miquiztli also doesn't need them, so you'll be able to get the Hero out in every game - the presence of Gems just determines whether he gets to bring his friends along.

 

[Charybdis]

Although attempting to pick them up did not work with a unit standing in the square when I loaded that save, I tried moving an Assassin in and it gave me the "Do you want to declare war on Beeri?" dialog, then eliminated him. Very odd, though; for a while I could neither attack 'em nor pick them up despite my best efforts, perhaps because I made peace with Beeri's ghost after noticing he was still in the game despite my best effort. Can gnomes play dead?

Now I can build some boats and show Charadon my lizardmen. Sadly there don't seem to be gems anywhere for me to try out the priests, but the Cualli are definitely a good time, as I mentioned in the strategy subforum.

If you're having issues with getting gems, I like to get a barbarian city somewhere (so I'll usually massacre then use HN assassins if I have any to wipe out any settlers who try to go out into the wilderness) and protect it until they build acheron. Then swoop in and grab his hoard.

 

[Brokenbone]

Great project you've put together, thanks for your efforts!

Inconsequential level bug report: Dural Professors have "Mind II", which used to be the way you'd get "Inspiration." Now that means "Charm Person," as "Inspiration" has been moved down to "Mind I." I.e., I'm sure your modmod had it right at the time of design, but since the underlying FFH game changed a bit here and there, this is one of those mismatches.

For now I have to picture them as very smooth talking professors

 

[KingOfLands]

If you're having issues with getting gems, I like to get a barbarian city somewhere (so I'll usually massacre then use HN assassins if I have any to wipe out any settlers who try to go out into the wilderness) and protect it until they build acheron. Then swoop in and grab his hoard.

Yeah, he's already settled at the far eastern end of Charadon's continent, sadly. A mission to get rid of him is not really an option just yet. As far as the priests go, I'm probably not quite lined up with their prerequisites if that's the case. If I need altars then I just need to ship my assassins home.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Aye - this is pretty much the case as I understand it. The race is destroyed, but then they are granted a single unit back (the pieces) which confuses matters a little. I'd assume (haven't checked) that the same issue could occur with the vanilla FfH.

Correct. I haven't personally checked either, but when someone else pointed out this bug Kael confirmed that this is how he had co code it so that the equipment are not permanently destroyed when a civ is defeated.

 

[BeefontheBone]

Sorted - I think.

Haven't tried it with the Scions and their +1000 food trick, but it seems to work for Hyborem (he's not complaining about city size about to shrink).

That's what ah'm talkin' 'bout Thanks Vehem.

 

[Vehem]

Great project you've put together, thanks for your efforts!

Inconsequential level bug report: Dural Professors have "Mind II", which used to be the way you'd get "Inspiration." Now that means "Charm Person," as "Inspiration" has been moved down to "Mind I." I.e., I'm sure your modmod had it right at the time of design, but since the underlying FFH game changed a bit here and there, this is one of those mismatches.

For now I have to picture them as very smooth talking professors

Aye - I'm aiming to make sure every spell caster/building with spell effect that has been altered by the spell-list changes to be back roughly in line in 041. There were a lot of them - less now, but still enough to be irritating.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Any ETA on 041? My last Final Exam was canceled, so I might be going home on the 30th instead of the 1st, but would still like to get the DLL/schema for my modmod before I go home. (Alternately, I might stick around until I'm allowed to move my stuff in to by fall apartment, which would mean I'd stick around longer)

 

[Vehem]

Any ETA on 041? My last Final Exam was canceled, so I might be going home on the 30th instead of the 1st, but would still like to get the DLL/schema for my modmod before I go home. (Alternately, I might stick around until I'm allowed to move my stuff in to by fall apartment, which would mean I'd stick around longer)

Main thing I'm trying to fix at the moment is UnitStats - I think I've missed some element of the Python merge or some element of BUG/Unitstats doesn't get along. ETA at the earliest is therefore "once I've fixed that".

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In other news however - life is about to get a whole lot easier for me and more interesting for you guys. Xienwolf has agreed to effectively take over the development of the DLL side of things (as he's spent many hours working with it and has discovered all sorts of nice tricks). More importantly for anyone wanting to use Fall Further as a base for modding - he's been sorting out the shoddy commenting and tidying things up in general.

The result is basically that Fall Further automatically gets to use any new XML fields tags that he devises and the DLL is better maintained (with the limited time I've had lately I must admit I'd been shoehorning code into the DLL with minimal finesse - Xienwolf has always managed to keep things nicely ordered).

Tis good stuff - I'm already grateful for the work he's done so far and am looking forward to what he does next.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Hmm...thats funny. Combining FFHBUG and UnitStats is the one merge I've done without any problems. Of course, that was several versions back. Also, I had some serious problems when I tried to merge that merged version with your modmod and xienwolf's modcomp.


May I assume xienwolf will also get rid of all the hardcoding in FF's DLL? (I believe I ran across some hardcoding when I tried to merge your SDK a while back.)

 

[xienwolf]

You can mostly assume that I'll screw with everything, heavily


I didn't come across much along the lines of Hardcoding, but I wasn't analyzing too deeply on the first run, mostly just cleaning up. I've got a compiled DLL now to work with, and as soon as I figure out why the game isn't actually loading I'll start playing with it.

The good news is that since there is now direct use of the code I'll be heading out of just Promotion fields and making the code more comprehesive. The bad news is that my MODCOMP might become a FF base only, as maintaining 2 seperate DLLs is a PITA, and Broader Alignments makes it impossible for FF DLL to be used with base FfH.

The bad news is, you are now at the whim of my wild designs

The great news is that while I was writing this up I realized why the new DLL won't load, improper GameOptions in the XML is the most likely culprit. So I'm going to fix that up right now and then work on improving FF will commence (I suppose I should actually play it once or twice first, as I have never made it through a full game yet, and my one attempt was back when there were only 3 civs....)