Fall Further - The Original Thread

[Vehem]

is it possible to get this for FfH 20 ?
please

Sadly not - the was Fall from Heaven 030 (or even 024 onwards) is written is completely different to the way 020 was, so the work required to port it across is *a lot* and not all features would even be possible to implement.

===

I can strongly recommend getting Beyond the Sword though - if for no other reason than playing the latest version of Fall from Heaven - Kael and the team have made some massive additions over the last few versions and I think you'd probably enjoy those a lot.

(Oh - and that BtS thing is ok too...)

 

[Vehem]

Patch C for 041
1. Re-added Alignment Info displays to MainInterface (classic style, not BUG)
2. Pre-emptive change to "unit model" display in bottom left corner - will be part of FfH033 anyway. Larger unit model, in position for new interface.
3. Summoner units display their summons below the UnitModel in the bottom left corner. Clicking selects the summon.
4. Summoned units display their summoner in a similar location (further right). Clicking selects the summoner.

==

Xienwolf has continued working on the Summoning features with some very useful additions - you can now see which units have summoned others and locate the summon/summoner with one click.

The changes to the interface (larger unit model and the location of the summon icons) take into account changes that should be taking place in FfH033 - if it looks a little odd now (personally I think it looks fine), it'll look better in FfH033.

 

[Vehem]

I'm getting a CTD when casting the Windsword spell if enemy units are in range. (041B fresh install)

Will take a look at this one. The <bPush> tag isn't used by anything in the main mod anymore so it may just be deprecated and broken since 3.17 (was working fine before I merged it).

Cosmetic issue;
The Cualli war elephant unit icon is... a bit too large.

I'm loving the "AI no level requirements" option.

OTOH, 300 turns in many of the AIs are still crippled by forestlock.... sad.

If you try the Creation Mapscript, I believe that Cephalo included code that removes forests/jungles from the initial 9 squares for all civs except those that can build in forest/jungle. This certainly makes most starting locations a little more feasible for the AI.

I turned on Python errors... didn't get any when clicking Options.

No errors at all when starting a new game, either.

I think I'm just going to nuke everything FfH-related and see if a completely clean install will do the trick.

[edit]Reinstalling FfH did the trick. Next time I'll just try that first

Good to hear. No idea what the issue would have been there - we haven't touched the options menu code so guessing something just went a little awry during install. Glad it's working for you now though.

I'm playing as the Kahdi civilization under Kahd (of course). I'm playing on the following settings:
Tectonics
60% Water
Start: Ancient (I think that's what it is called)
Medium size map
2 more players than default
double events, double rewards, and new random seed
The problem that is occurring is that I researched the tech which unlocks RoK first and founded the holy city. However, I am not able to convert to RoK and I read up on Kahd in the civilopedia and decided that maybe he can't have a religion (dedicated to Oghma), but soon I noticed that one of the dwarven civilizations had founded the RoK also (as a notice told me). How did they found it if I did it first. Also, if Kahd can't adopt a religion, could you please add the Leadership trait Agnostic (or something along those lines, since he really isn't agnostic). Thank you very much.
-Matt Riley

Aye - you're right that he can't adopt. The Dwarves most likely researched Way of the Earthmother and received the disciple unit (as always happens in FfH), allowing them to also adopt it. You still had the holy city however, they just had the religion in their cities.

Kahd's "agnosticness" was originally intended to work differently - he would be able to research all the techs but no religions could be founded in his cities and no religion could ever spread to his cities. This effect would be removed however if he chose the "redeemed" path - which then allowed him to take a much more "enlightened" view of religion and the way the world worked rather than his single minded mission.

I think this might be something to work on implementing properly now. It may cost him his pseudo-hero promotion on the redeemed route though as a balance issue (need to test that first).

 

[Demus]

Patch C for 041
1. Re-added Alignment Info displays to MainInterface (classic style, not BUG)
2. Pre-emptive change to "unit model" display in bottom left corner - will be part of FfH033 anyway. Larger unit model, in position for new interface.
3. Summoner units display their summons below the UnitModel in the bottom left corner. Clicking selects the summon.
4. Summoned units display their summoner in a similar location (further right). Clicking selects the summoner.

==

Xienwolf has continued working on the Summoning features with some very useful additions - you can now see which units have summoned others and locate the summon/summoner with one click.

The changes to the interface (larger unit model and the location of the summon icons) take into account changes that should be taking place in FfH033 - if it looks a little odd now (personally I think it looks fine), it'll look better in FfH033.

does this mean summons are tracked? I thought Kael said there was no way to do this. This could mean casters can get exp the same way epona did in AoI, which would be awesome

 

[Vehem]

does this mean summons are tracked? I thought Kael said there was no way to do this. This could mean casters can get exp the same way epona did in AoI, which would be awesome

There wasn't, but there is now. Experience gain from summons is a planned feature for Summoner Trait leaders, though we need to decide whether it will be "experience for Summoners only" or "more experience for Summoners than for non-Summoners".

Personally I'm a fan of requiring the trait to gain experience at all, but will see how it works out in play-testing.

EDIT: Apparently I missed that Xienwolf already added that feature. Units belonging to Summoner leaders will receive 50% of that unit's experience when it dies.

 

[Elm]

In patch B, I founded and adopted OO, and my cottages take on the OO look, but farms did not.

Also, I was playing as the Sidar, and my cities seemed to have no buildings, except for items built. My capital was just the palace, and new cities had nothing.

I installed 41 followed by B. Is it possible I am missing some graphics?

For Epic games, receiving techs from ruins, huts, etc is just to much. In normal games, I usually turn off goody huts for map generation because of this. Are the things you can get from huts, etc be modified somewhere in the XML, to remove technology as a possibility?

Last: Is "C" compatible with B Saved games?

 

[Ambreville]

This is with Patch B. I get a crash at the beginning of my turn 334, just when a new learned Tech pops up. I reloaded the save file for Turn 333 a couple times and get the same result when I try to get to Turn 334 -- see logs and save file (no Python error message or anything -- just crashes straight to the desktop).


Sheesh! Every time I turn around, you guys come up with a patch or an update!

----------------------

EDIT

I re-launched the file with Patch C (same result).

 

[Tarquelne]

Will take a look at this one. The <bPush> tag isn't used by anything in the main mod anymore so it may just be deprecated and broken since 3.17 (was working fine before I merged it).

"Push" seems to be working with the Scions spell "Grand Ward", btw.
(I wanted to compare the effects of py-per-turn GW with a "normal" push spell... And I wanted an excuse to play the Austrin rather than play-test the Scions. I really like travel light/re-equip.)

****

Oh yeah: Scions for 041 is up.

 

[Vehem]

In patch B, I founded and adopted OO, and my cottages take on the OO look, but farms did not.

Also, I was playing as the Sidar, and my cities seemed to have no buildings, except for items built. My capital was just the palace, and new cities had nothing.

I installed 41 followed by B. Is it possible I am missing some graphics?

I'll take a look at the Sidar ART_DEFs and see if anything is missing - I'm assuming that you had Fall from Heaven 2 032 installed before installing Fall Further? (I'd expect a different error if that were not the case actually)

For Epic games, receiving techs from ruins, huts, etc is just to much. In normal games, I usually turn off goody huts for map generation because of this. Are the things you can get from huts, etc be modified somewhere in the XML, to remove technology as a possibility?

Last: Is "C" compatible with B Saved games?

If you look in Assets\XML\GameInfo\CIV4HandicapInfo.xml, you can set what the huts provide on each difficulty level. At the moment it's set to the FfH defaults.

The section you're looking for looks like this (example is from Settler difficulty)

            <Goodies>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_HIGH_GOLD</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_LOW_GOLD</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_MAP</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_SETTLER</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_SETTLER</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_WARRIOR</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_SCOUT</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_WORKER</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_WORKER</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_EXPERIENCE</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_HEALING</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
                <GoodyType>GOODY_TECH</GoodyType>
            </Goodies>

It randomly picks an entry from that list. If you remove all lines containing "GOODY_TECH", you will no longer get Techs from huts at that difficulty. If you wanted to remove it from all difficulties, you'd have to search for GOODY_TECH and delete every instance in that file.

This is with Patch B. I get a crash at the beginning of my turn 334, just when a new learned Tech pops up. I reloaded the save file for Turn 333 a couple times and get the same result when I try to get to Turn 334 -- see logs and save file (no Python error message or anything -- just crashes straight to the desktop).

I've just run the save game - no sign of a crash for me. Can you take a look Xien and see if it's reproducible?

Sheesh! Every time I turn around, you guys come up with a patch or an update!

Normally the way for a few days after a release

 

[xienwolf]

I also loaded the save you posted Abreville, and got no crash under patch B or C. It did take a little while for the turn to process, so it might just be overloading your computer sadly. Though why always at that turn is a mild mystery.

Try giving yourself Horseback Riding via WorldBuilder and researching something else, see if it still crashes when you hit end turn.

 

[Elm]

More info: I am using the "Broken Lands" map, which has a bunch of FfH civs, but no FF ones. I opened my current game in WorldBuilder to check all the other civs. Only the Balseraphs, Sheaim and Svartalfar have graphics for cities. And they all look like the Leaves (Elven) cityset.

Installing patch C did not help... I have the installation in a non-standard directory for XP (it is not in Program Files) but the installer had no trouble finding the correct directory.

 

[MagisterCultuum]

There wasn't, but there is now. Experience gain from summons is a planned feature for Summoner Trait leaders, though we need to decide whether it will be "experience for Summoners only" or "more experience for Summoners than for non-Summoners".

Personally I'm a fan of requiring the trait to gain experience at all, but will see how it works out in play-testing.

EDIT: Apparently I missed that Xienwolf already added that feature. Units belonging to Summoner leaders will receive 50% of that unit's experience when it dies.

I personally don't see any need to tie the xp to a trait at all. The fact is that it is virtually impossible for non-summoner trait summons to get enough xp for this to matter anyway, at least if the xp is 50% rounded down. (Einherjar and Pit Beasts are an exception, of course.)

One reason I'd prefer not to require the trait is that I'm planning to get rid of the trait entirely. I prefer the extra duration to come from the caster's dimensional sphere promotions.

 

[Vehem]

I personally don't see any need to tie the xp to a trait at all. The fact is that it is virtually impossible for non-summoner trait summons to get enough xp for this to matter anyway, at least if the xp is 50% rounded down. (Einherjar and Pit Beasts are an exception, of course.)

I have to disagree with that fact.

Any summon that actually wins a roughly even battle (attacking) is going to pick up an average of 2-4 experience. Lucky battles might result in a lot more. Permanent summons (skeletons for example) are able to collect quite a lot more experience on a good day.

If we're talking about summons as cannon fodder to weaken a city defence, then I agree they're not going to win many battles at all (it doesn't matter if they're 1 turn or 3 turn summons if they're losing their first battle...). If you're using summons to engage units in the field though, they'll be able to win every so often, which will give their caster another few experience at no danger to themselves - not a bad deal really. Remember that a dedicated summoner will be Combat 5 as well - giving all of his summons +50% strength (and probably spell extension for bonus movement too).

Even if only some of the combats end up earning experience for the caster, it's a bonus on what they had before.

One reason I'd prefer not to require the trait is that I'm planning to get rid of the trait entirely. I prefer the extra duration to come from the caster's dimensional sphere promotions.

You're welcome to do that. Take the code as a gift and do what you want with it.

 

[Tarquelne]

Even if only some of the combats end up earning experience for the caster, it's a bonus on what they had before.

It could occasionally be a LOT. Using summons as cannon fodder you often send them into fights they probably won't win - but sometimes they do.

******

I've got a question about how the installer works: Does it copy the "Modules" folder from the FFH2 install? (The module "holywarriors" keeps showing up in FF and I'm not sure why.)

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Oh...for some reason I was thinking that it only applied to units of limited duration. If permanent summons give up their XP too then it could be a problem if it works for everyone.

 

[xienwolf]

And keep in mind that a summon is level 1, and the level difference between units is a HUGE factor in how much XP you gain. Should a summon take down a level 5 unit they will gain 8XP or so. Even if they "only" defeat another level 1 unit, they will almost always gain 2 XP (how often has your scout at the start of the game NOT gained a level for his first win against an animal? And if he beats a bear it is typically 2 levels due to strength differences).

Anyway, the point is really quite silly to debate because the change in code we are talking about is a single line. You really ought to be able to manage that much on your own

 

[Vehem]

It could occasionally be a LOT. Using summons as cannon fodder you often send them into fights they probably won't win - but sometimes they do.

******

I've got a question about how the installer works: Does it copy the "Modules" folder from the FFH2 install? (The module "holywarriors" keeps showing up in FF and I'm not sure why.)

It will copy everything from the "Fall from Heaven 2 032" directory, so it will also copy any installed modules - aye.

 

[RogueThunder]

If you try the Creation Mapscript, I believe that Cephalo included code that removes forests/jungles from the initial 9 squares for all civs except those that can build in forest/jungle. This certainly makes most starting locations a little more feasible for the AI.

Afraid it still removes them for those who can build in jungle. Jungles, that is. Dunno about forests for forest builders.

Not that its much of a problem, with that many ajacent jungles... they grow back nice and fast.

 

[Ambreville]

I also loaded the save you posted Abreville, and got no crash under patch B or C. It did take a little while for the turn to process, so it might just be overloading your computer sadly. Though why always at that turn is a mild mystery.

Try giving yourself Horseback Riding via WorldBuilder and researching something else, see if it still crashes when you hit end turn.

I reloaded that game and switched to another Tech to be researched (besides Horseback Riding). I still get a CTD in the exact same manner. There's obviously something happening that's not agreeing with my computer. I don't think it's memory-related since I've been running other games with Fall Further that reach (so far) Turn 500+ without any apparent issue. I've also run a good number of "standard" FfH games to full completion. The only thing I can conclude is that your modmod does not work with just any machine (perhaps a config issue?) I understand you cannot duplicate the mishap, but it doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

 

[xienwolf]

Aye, just means it is a PITA to track down But fortunately we have at least one rather dedicated Beta Tester here helping us to possibly isolate it What kind of system are you running? In case others find mystery crashes and might line up in the Spec/OS department.