Fall Further - The Original Thread

[seZereth]

Just a quick preview of a couple of the Austerin units. The first image is of the Rogue - a scout unique unit which has a habit of turning up where it doesn't belong, ignoring all national borders. They're also quite good at investigating rival cities. The second two are both of the hero unit, Harmatt. The first is his natural state, whilst the second is his mounted version.

Austerin Archmages have the innate ability to summon Pegasi - permanent summons, one per Channelling3 caster. Any Melee, Adept or Archer unit may ride these, giving them +2 Movement and the ability to Fly as well as changing the graphic. The unit is otherwise unchanged (keeps unit-type/combat/promotions) - the pegasus is a graphic/promotion only upgrade.

Harmatt himself is an explorer and follower of Tali. An early Hero with some mid game potential through affinity/weapons.

Harmatt

• Strength 3
• Air Affinity: 1
• Requires Cartography
• 2 Moves
• Ignores Terrain Cost
• High Withdrawl chance (offensive and defensive).
• May use all weapon types
• Requires Cartography

Nice to see my Witchhunter unit put to some good use finally
cool idea with that pegasus.

 

[Vehem]

Tempest

7% chance of each tile owned by the caster spawning an Air Elemental, with between 1 and 5 turns duration.
All units belonging to a player at war with the caster within the caster's territory are immobilized for between 1 and 5 turns.


==

Makes for a decent defensive spell, allowing you to regroup if attacked unexpectedly. The air elementals also give you chance to score some serious damage on your immobilized foe.

It also has a hefty offensive potential as well however. Air Elementals are flying, 2(+1) movement units, which with a potential lifetime of 5 turns gives a range of upto 15 tiles. As they are Strength 8+ (5 + 2 Lightning + at least 1 from Air affinity) we're looking at a possible "March of the Trees Rush" situation.

I'm looking for opinions on a good tech to set as a requirement for the Worldspell. The obvious one is "Elementalism", whilst "Priesthood" would also make sense (the Tempest is invoked through Tali and so it is Divine magic). Both of these are 800 Beaker techs though and won't necessarily be on the typical research path of the Austrin. Any suggestions for alternatives?

Also worth bearing in mind is that the spell gets more potent with increased territory - only 1 square in ~14 will spawn an elemental. Is this sufficient balancing mechanism to make using the Worldspell early unappealing?

The spell is deliberately very random in potency - no guarantees regarding how many elementals, how long they last and how long the enemy is immobilized. This makes balancing the requirements quite tricky - but does reflect the whimsical and fleeting nature of Tali quite well. He may smite your foes with gale force fury, or just blow a breeze at them briefly before his attention flies to another part of creation.

 

[Vehem]

Nice to see my Witchhunter unit put to some good use finally
cool idea with that pegasus.

Aye - it looks great and I've after playing with him in FfH for a while, I've even started to forget the "Warhammer/Empire-link" - he just seems to fit in with the rest of the FfH crowd. I actually used to play an Empire army many, many years ago (round about the time the Steam Tank was first released) and used a Witch Hunter model as my general.

I already spoke to Ploep to check he didn't mind me hijacking it and to make sure I could credit it properly.

 

[seZereth]

Aye - it looks great and I've after playing with him in FfH for a while, I've even started to forget the "Warhammer/Empire-link" - he just seems to fit in with the rest of the FfH crowd. I actually used to play an Empire army many, many years ago (round about the time the Steam Tank was first released) and used a Witch Hunter model as my general.

I already spoke to Ploep to check he didn't mind me hijacking it and to make sure I could credit it properly.

I dont mind if you use anything from the warhammer mod, most of it was created by me or Ploep anyway and thus belongs to the FfH team anyway
so, feel free to implement anything in FF, as I think it will reach a wider audience here than it does in warhammer

 

[Ploeperpengel]

I dont mind if you use anything from the warhammer mod, most of it was created by me or Ploep anyway and thus belongs to the FfH team anyway
so, feel free to implement anything in FF, as I think it will reach a wider audience here than it does in warhammer

Hey I read this thread

 

[MagisterCultuum]

Tempest

7% chance of each tile owned by the caster spawning an Air Elemental, with between 1 and 5 turns duration.
All units belonging to a player at war with the caster within the caster's territory are immobilized for between 1 and 5 turns.


==

Makes for a decent defensive spell, allowing you to regroup if attacked unexpectedly. The air elementals also give you chance to score some serious damage on your immobilized foe.

It also has a hefty offensive potential as well however. Air Elementals are flying, 2(+1) movement units, which with a potential lifetime of 5 turns gives a range of upto 15 tiles. As they are Strength 8+ (5 + 2 Lightning + at least 1 from Air affinity) we're looking at a possible "March of the Trees Rush" situation.

I'm looking for opinions on a good tech to set as a requirement for the Worldspell. The obvious one is "Elementalism", whilst "Priesthood" would also make sense (the Tempest is invoked through Tali and so it is Divine magic). Both of these are 800 Beaker techs though and won't necessarily be on the typical research path of the Austrin. Any suggestions for alternatives?

Also worth bearing in mind is that the spell gets more potent with increased territory - only 1 square in ~14 will spawn an elemental. Is this sufficient balancing mechanism to make using the Worldspell early unappealing?

The spell is deliberately very random in potency - no guarantees regarding how many elementals, how long they last and how long the enemy is immobilized. This makes balancing the requirements quite tricky - but does reflect the whimsical and fleeting nature of Tali quite well. He may smite your foes with gale force fury, or just blow a breeze at them briefly before his attention flies to another part of creation.

Not a bad world spell.

I don't know why, but the techs that came to my mind were Astronomy, Fanaticism, and Commune with Nature. Those might all be too late though. I also thought exploration and sailing, but those are probably too soon.



This does seem like a very nice spell though. Keep in mind that Air Elementals spawn Lightning Elementals, which do not have limited duration.



How long do you think it will be until the next release?

 

[RogueThunder]

Not a bad world spell.

I don't know why, but the techs that came to my mind were Astronomy, Fanaticism, and Commune with Nature. Those might all be too late though.



This does seem like a very nice spell though. Keep in mind that Air Elementals spawn Lightning Elementals, which do not have limited duration.



How long do you think it will be until the next release?

Thats strange. Because for me, Elementalism came to mind XD Although something in the boat line is next down my thoughts.

 

[Darksaber1]

Hey, the Archos get a unit called a strong Giant Spider, what is that, a Giant Spider With Stron promotion?

 

[DuckAndCower]

Why require a tech at all? Would it be all that overpowered if it was usable on turn 1? Most other worldspells are...

 

[Darksaber1]

Hey, I rejected a demand from Hyborem, and I got REJECT_DIPLO_DEFAULT, or something very close to that. I don't think he talks like that, so it's probably a bug.
Edit: does rder of the Wyvern also effect cities I capture/found after it is built?
Edit Edit: O, yes, does wetland and Deep jungle spread to a tile with an improvemnt?

 

[GhostQ]

Why require a tech at all? Would it be all that overpowered if it was usable on turn 1? Most other worldspells are...

I don't think this one would be broken if it was available on turn 1 as it would roughly have a % 50 chance to spawn an elemental. But there are several available on turn 1, which are (almost) broken: Luchuirp and Calabim.

 

[Ekolite]

On turn one you'd only have 8 tiles though wouldn't you? You probably wouldn't even get an elemental, with only 7% chance/tile. Also you wouldn't be being attacked except for barbs. What would be the point in using this on turn 1?

 

[Niveras]

Edit: does rder of the Wyvern also effect cities I capture/found after it is built?
Edit Edit: O, yes, does wetland and Deep jungle spread to a tile with an improvemnt?

1) I'm pretty sure it does, since it's just a unique building that adds buildings in all your cities. No different from the Nexus or the Guild of Hammers (wonder, which gives forges in all your cities, not the guild, which reduces the cost of upgrading units near that city).

2) I'm pretty sure yes as well. I know wetlands do, since they are just grasslands that change to wetlands, they don't 'spread' per se. I'm pretty sure I've even seen a deep jungle spread to a tile with a cottage improvement once, but it is very, very rare.

I wouldn't mind an ability to spawn deep jungle in order to help improve cities that aren't necessarily founded in jungle (such as ones founded in forest, where the likelyhood of a tile switching to jungle is low, or plains, where there are no forests at all to even become jungle). Late game would be fine, since it is mainly to make cities you conquer more productive. I was thinking the two lizard races could get a unique Eidolon and Paladin units, and those units could get the deep-jungle-spawn-spell. Alternatively a druid unique unit that is not limited by alignment.

 

[grumpylad]

On turn one you'd only have 8 tiles though wouldn't you? You probably wouldn't even get an elemental, with only 7% chance/tile. Also you wouldn't be being attacked except for barbs. What would be the point in using this on turn 1?

I'd imagine one of two things there is a difference between using it and having it available. Secondly I average setting up next to the Lich probably 1 in 3 games so that might actually mean I survive for a change

 

[MacGyverInSpace]

Oh mighty Tali, save us from Barbatos! Seriously, if you spawn near Barbatos, move a at least 6 tiles away. Then warrior spam for the Mana, staff, and the rest of your land back...

 

[DuckAndCower]

On turn one you'd only have 8 tiles though wouldn't you? You probably wouldn't even get an elemental, with only 7% chance/tile. Also you wouldn't be being attacked except for barbs. What would be the point in using this on turn 1?

Well, even if it would probably be a bad idea to use this on turn 1, I don't see how that's an argument for not allowing the player to use it on turn 1. Part of the game is deciding what the good and bad decisions are. If the game holds your hand too much, it's far less interesting.

 

[Ekolite]

Yeah that's exactly my point. No need to restrict the spell because no one would want to use it that early.

 

[Darksaber1]

Do anciant forests turn into Deep Jungle? I captured huge swaths of Anciant forest from Alexis, and I just want to know if it will Change.

 

[Darksaber1]

Oh, also, I think the lizzies wetlands have trouble with the grassland created by Genesis. over 100 turns, and no noticable changes yet to any of it. O, might it be possible to get an inqusitor like unit for the Mazatl? I waged war against the Veil civs, but I had to use world builder to be able to remove it. Also, no command that I can see, so no capturing. And are regular workers suposed to turn into lizards when captured? oo, and are Lizard immortals supposed to be so much bigger then their other units. Also, definetly provide atlest unique art to chariots. I've got men with horses.

 

[JeffSteel]

I havent read all 70 or so pages of this thread so my apologies if this has already been brought up, but I think I have discovered a bug. Namely, that rushing production with gold shifts your alignment by -1, per item rushed. A voluntary echange of money for production just dosent seem very evil to me. This individually is not a big deal, but when you have a sizable nation with a significant percentage of cities with automated production, your alignment will begin to rapidly shift towards evil as the AI rushes production to get it out a turn earlier. What results is you nation becoming evil for what seems to be no apparent reason, if you even notice it is hapening at all. Seems to be related to the sacrificing of population to rush production alignment effect, so it couldn't be that hard to fix. What file should I edit and where in order to fix this?

Again, sorry if this has been mentioned before and is ten or so pages back, but the search function didn't seem to find anything.