Fall Patch changes discussion thread

[DemonMaster]

Why? People are complaining, that Landsknechte are usefull only in a very short time period.

This is true for the unit itself. However, as they don't obsolete and they keep their abilities with the upgrade, they (and the related SoPo) don't lose their usefullness later in the game. The only "downside" is, that is it is expensive to upgrade all the mercenaries. On the other hand, more modern mercenaries should be more expensive. So, the only thing you really lose is the 'direct attack after purchase'-ability.

For me, its perfect!

There is no logic in the ability to buy a pikeman 1929.

One way to change this is to let LK have its own upgrade path so when you hit riflling you instead buy another type of mercenary (riflemen replacement) and of course you could upgrade your LK to this. And then also a GW infantry replacement and so on. So if you have taken this SP you will always during the game have a mercenary available of the latest type that is known to you.

Although I do think they should obsolete them when you hit the Industrial Era or something or even with the Lancer kicks in.

 

[Peng Qi]

When MadDjinn bought one in his SfA game he upgraded it to a Sipahi and it retained it's abilities.

I don't mind that it does retain them but they should Obsolete LK so you can't buy them forever. Hopefully they do.

That would easily make Mercenary Armies the worst policy in the game.

 

[DemonMaster]

That would easily make Mercenary Armies the worst policy in the game.

Because the AI probably can't understand the concept of buying a LK in the Atomic Era and then upgrade it first to a Lancer and then to a AT-gun and even to a Helicopter. The AI just sees LK and will skip buying it because it is not good anymore.
So if we don't obsolete LK, this SP will be a human player only deal. So either remove the unit with the Industrial Era or something or add new units through the eras so when an AI evaluates what to do with its money, it see "Mercenary Infantry, lets buy that.
Or sure if the devs can make the AI understand that it can actually buy a LK, move it out of the city and then upgrade it to a Lancer and then, the next turn upgrade it again and so on, sure let it stay.

 

[Deggial]

...
One way to change this is to let LK have its own upgrade path so when you hit riflling you instead buy another type of mercenary (riflemen replacement) and of course you could upgrade your LK to this. And then also a GW infantry replacement and so on. So if you have taken this SP you will always during the game have a mercenary available of the latest type that is known to you...

Okay, this would be way better and your 'The AI doesn't know to use it'-argument is quite valid!
So, my 'perfect' has to be relativized into 'good enough for what we can expect to get'.

True enough, Landsknechte in the infantry upgrade path would be way better (and reasonable) than the anti-mounted path. Even if helicopters with no movement cost for pillaging are awesome, their city capture-bonus is in vain.

So 'Aye' for your proposal. There even doesn't need to be a mercenary-specific unit graphic for more modern mercs, if you ask me.

 

[Quineloe]

That policy is basically intended to buff the Pentagon to not be the worst world wonder besides Angkor Wat anymore.

 

[Buccaneer]

It's impossible to use inquisitors and missionaries to get your religion back to your cities, because the AI cheats excessively when generating Religious units, you'll never catch up here.

Then use that to your advantage instead of complaining about it. After I built Cathedrals and Mosques in my 3-4 cities as quickly as possible with faith, I welcomed any switches to other religions and were able to build Pagodas too, and then in one city, Monastery. Play at Immortal or Deity and you'll have a strategy of getting a Pantheon for an early boost and then let a neighboring religion come - helps with diplomacy and tourism. You'll still win the game because there is not a Religious Victory, it's just a mean to an end.

 

[Liegence]

There is no logic in the ability to buy a pikeman 1929.

One way to change this is to let LK have its own upgrade path so when you hit riflling you instead buy another type of mercenary (riflemen replacement) and of course you could upgrade your LK to this. And then also a GW infantry replacement and so on. So if you have taken this SP you will always during the game have a mercenary available of the latest type that is known to you.

Although I do think they should obsolete them when you hit the Industrial Era or something or even with the Lancer kicks in.

How about:

Landsknecht upgrades to Hessian (gunpowder) upgrades to Gurkha (rifles) upgrades to Foreign Legion?

Cultures vary but idea is the same

 

[Matthew.]

I wouldn't mind scaling mercenaries. Especially since if you are unable to use Landsknecht due to map or whatever, such as starting on a smaller continent, but still want to play around with the Commerce tree it is a complete waste of a policy.

I believe the units still unlock on certain techs and the policy just allows you to purchase them, correct? So should be easy to throw on a few more units in the later eras. Once you unlock the tech, it opens up the new mercenary option.

 

[Gort]

How about:

Landsknecht upgrades to Hessian (gunpowder) upgrades to Gurkha (rifles) upgrades to Foreign Legion?

Cultures vary but idea is the same

If you look up "mercenary" on Wikipedia, Gurkhas and Foreign Legion come up as two of the groups that specifically aren't mercenaries.

 

[Silmarillion]

Hey everyone! Sorry for derailing the discussion... but I am now very clueless regarding the status of the patch and hoped you could provide some answers for me.

My Civ games usually take about a week (Marathon+RL). Since the Beta thing started, I haven't played, since I wrongly assumed that the patch would probably be online right after the Beta. Now I'm in quite an awkward position, plus massive Civ withdrawal .

It goes like this:

a) If I start a new game now without the Beta, the patch will probably arrive right in the middle of it and make it unusable.

b) I'm also not sure if the Beta Patch is still there or not; it's supposed to not be there, but people have posted that it is. If I started a new game now with the Beta, and the real patch arrived in the middle, would the game still work?

(Plus, I have no idea how Beta things work and if I could get that thing started with my abysmal computer skills)

So...I'd just like to play Civ again, but would also really like to know when the patch finally arrives.

 

[Quineloe]

btw, if a landsknecht pillages and then doesn't perform an action, will he heal another 10hp?

 

[glider1]

Hey Silmar, go for the patch by following directions Dshirk posted. If you can't get it because it has expired, you will have to wait until official release otherwise there is a poss that save game will break. If you can get beta, the official release will be compatible with beta games.

 

[turingmachine]

When MadDjinn bought one in his SfA game he upgraded it to a Sipahi and it retained it's abilities.

I don't mind that it does retain them but they should Obsolete LK so you can't buy them forever. Hopefully they do.

The only thing that annoys me about the LK keeping its promotions on upgrade is that its an indirect nerf to the Ottoman Siphai, which wasn't the strongest Unit.

An upgrade LK to Lancer has all the pillaging and sight bonuses of the Siphai. It will still have one less movement, but your effectively letting everyone get a unit almost identical the Ottoman's second UU whenever.

 

[Suntechnique]

Sun King pantheon is a bit OP?

Spoiler :

wheat on river become improved Lake Victoria once you get to CS...

 

[Liegence]

If you look up "mercenary" on Wikipedia, Gurkhas and Foreign Legion come up as two of the groups that specifically aren't mercenaries.

They do not meet the definition of mercenaries as defined in the Geneva conventions, yes. Were they enlisted non-nationals motivated by compensation? Perhaps. Wiki likely solely traces their non mercenary status based on the Geneva conventions, and since mercenaries violate international law you will likely not find a reliable title for late game mercs other than maybe Blackwater Contractor

 

[fuzzatron717]

Sun King pantheon is a bit OP?

Spoiler :

wheat on river become improved Lake Victoria once you get to CS...

Holy Moses that is a ton of food!

 

[Hinterlander]

Sun King pantheon is a bit OP?

Spoiler :

wheat on river become improved Lake Victoria once you get to CS...

Situational anything does not equal OP.

 

[Arachnofiend]

The main thing that holds Sun God back is the fact that you're probably not going to get it all game. Taking a pantheon that doesn't provide faith is always risky.

Of course, if you're not going for a religion that early game boost to food production is still downright silly. Definitely a no-brainer pantheon if it is at all applicable and you don't think religion is an option.

 

[kingchris20]

After the first 130 turns, main thing I'm noticing is that the AI is actually coming to me for my spare luxuries......with decent deals! Already lovin that!

 

[joncnunn]

The main thing that holds Sun God back is the fact that you're probably not going to get it all game. Taking a pantheon that doesn't provide faith is always risky.

Of course, if you're not going for a religion that early game boost to food production is still downright silly. Definitely a no-brainer pantheon if it is at all applicable and you don't think religion is an option.

Yes, that pantheon does work as a no religion one. But what I was actually thinking was Piety start so you'd still have a religion. It works best if your pantheon does NOT provide a large faith bonus because extra faith easily results in already enhancing the religion before completing the tree. (That tree would perform better with a culture producing one, but the AI tends to love those.)