Fall Patch changes discussion thread

[AspyrRyan]

Can Mac users participate in the Beta?

The Mac version of the patch is not available for beta testing.

 

[isau]

Lots of nice stuff but I agree that Piety, Honor, and Consulates need to be fixed. Piety may have actually gotten even more marginal now that 2 new Pantheons grant faith, making it even more likely that a lucky start can catapult you to a founding a religion, or more importantly, randomly catapult some other player and cause you to miss it. How that terrible "access to second most popular Pantheon" ability is still around is a mystery for the ages.

If the point of Piety is Faith the best Faith generators should be in Piety, not in random map resources combined with a Pantheon.

 

[Securion]

Germany is kinda interesting now... But Japan is still completely worthless, sadly.
Also; No changes to the SP tree was a bit disappointing.

Dont want to complain to much though, its free and its fixing a lot of stuff, so thanks Firaxis!

 

[DWilson]

The best part of all, the samurai don't die!

No, this is essentially a worker action for them. Your Samurai embarks, moves to an improvable sea resource, and then a worker action appears allowing you to create a fishing boat. You can do this with as many sea resources as you have within your borders.

I actually love this change. I hate building so many work boats. Now the spare warrior I keep around can be useful also.

 

[Petiscator]

After someone here said that the Landsknecht gets double gold from city-capturing and no movement points to pillage, I feel like doing this:

Songhai + Commerce vs. Egypt

Come on, imagine it! Songhai's UA River Warlords gives you 3x from city capturing. Burial Tomb gives 2x when the city is taken. Now, the Landsknecht gives you 2x too. 3x2x2 = 12x

About Japan: well, their changes seemed minor to me, but it's something. Also, as the Fishing Boats are an improvement, I guess it will give you some tourism after Hotels and Airports, right? The Atolls, though, are a much less common feature... well.

I'm looking forward to the Hanse!

 

[Browd]

Curious whether the Samurai fishing boat ability to done by promotion that is preserved on upgrade, or if it is a UA feature that is specific only to Samurai (and lost on upgrade).

 

[Buccaneer]

The AI makes great use of the piety tree. Until they change the priority of the AI choosing tradition or liberty, any buffs to piety could still make the AI chose that even more. Can't have both - buffs/nerfs without re-priortization.

 

[bcaiko]

I approve of this entire patch! A lot of things that needed small tweaks are getting them, the borked warmonger penalty is being revamped, and the AI behavior is getting a sorely needed update. Hooray!

You actually do sacrifice bombers. Since, until airports, you can only have six air units per city, and ten with airports, building a zero means that you lose a slot that could have been used for a bomber.

Who says the Zero is even there with your bombers? You may have another front you can defend with them, free of stacking limitation. And, in any event, having a oil-free Zero is still giving you another oil for your Bomber stationed in the city nextdoor.

 

[redwings1340]

While tradition/consulates/rat wasn't changed, I feel like some other policy trees were buffed. I'd like a few more changes, especially with religious tolerance, but overall this looks like a very good patch. Nice job Firaxis!

 

[Aaron90495]

It's available now for testing. Check out the sticky at the top of the forum.

Dennis, is there any chance you (either in this patch or a near-future one) could slide in a quick nerf to Tradition-Consulates-Rationalism (or at least Consulates)? As a lot of others in this thread posted, it's such a superior strategy; all that's really needed to fix Consulates is making the diplomatic penalty for defending your city-state much stronger.

Other than that, great job

The AI makes great use of the piety tree. Until they change the priority of the AI choosing tradition or liberty, any buffs to piety could still make the AI chose that even more. Can't have both - buffs/nerfs without re-priortization.

Yeah, WAY too many AI's (probably 40% or so) go Piety. Until that's fixed, Piety is going to be comparably weaker, as you're competing with more religious-oriented civs. That, and it still is a bit weak, even with the increase to 25% gold from the Temple.

 

[Tinker]

samurai build fishing boats? ...... other than that solid patch!

Reference to Miyamoto Musashi. It's still a little silly, though

EDIT: If you use them to fishing boat whales, it'd be like this.

 

[Mudrac]

It's available now for testing. Check out the sticky at the top of the forum.

Ah thanks . So it's just testing phase now. So does that mean there will be some additional improvements in the final release? And around which time will it be completely live?

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

I believe people are underestimating the power that the new UA has.
1. Japan now has a Ocean bias, they will most likely ALWAYS start near it, Atolls are rare but the moment I started a Japanese game to test stuff out they had a fish nearby
2. They are the new old-France, they now get a base culture boost that no one else has exactly.
3. They've accomplished what they were planning, in that the ideological pressure is lower on Japan, why? Because Japan now has a lot more culture that they produce.

 

[Tinker]

Yeah, I like the change as well - ocean starts almost always have one, two or three workable sea resources near them, and they're very good tiles already, meaning that you get +1-3 culture just from a getting to sailing and making a workboat on tiles you'd be working anyway. That's basically a pantheon belief that stays forever for you right there.

 

[TheMarshmallowBear]

Yeah, I like the change as well - ocean starts almost always have one, two or three workable sea resources near them, and they're very good tiles already, meaning that you get +1-3 culture just from a getting to sailing and making a workboat on tiles you'd be working anyway. That's basically a pantheon belief that stays forever for you right there.

and I also like the fact that this make Oda less of a warmonger in terms of gameplay and more of someone who can turtle up culturally, and give him a push to explore a different part of the tree (Pottery>Sailing)

 

[mposyncckh]

Germany: Added the Hanse unique building (Replaces Bank, includes Bank bonuses, and +5% Production per City-State Trade Route across your civilization, not just cities that have a Hanse).

I don't really understand this wording can someone please help clarify it? So if I have 5 cities and 4 trade routes going to city states and Berlin builds the hanse all 5 cities get a 20% production bonus? That seems weird to more why would cities without the hanse get the bonus?

 

[Carl5872]

Germany: Added the Hanse unique building (Replaces Bank, includes Bank bonuses, and +5% Production per City-State Trade Route across your civilization, not just cities that have a Hanse).

I don't really understand this wording can someone please help clarify it? So if I have 5 cities and 4 trade routes going to city states and Berlin builds the hanse all 5 cities get a 20% production bonus? That seems weird to more why would cities without the hanse get the bonus?

I think it means each city with a hanse gets 20% bonus.

 

[Greizer85]

... Adding +1 Faith to Salt of all things..?! As if that mega-op resource needs to be more powerful!

... Am I interpreting the new German UB correctly? With 10 cities with a Hanse in each, the bonus would be +50% production per CS trade route??? It can't work that way, it'd be the most op thing anywhere ever.

... There should be no Work Boats in the game, period. Just allow embarked workers to build water improvements.

... Did I understand correctly or did they just make the AI *more* prone to embark its units? If anything they should never embark unless moving to a different continent.

Otherwise good fixes all around; but as said, Tradition needs a slight nerf and the other early trees should all be buffed. Liberty needs a minor buff, Honor a tremendous one and Piety a moderate one.

 

[TheBlackHole]

... Am I interpreting the new German UB correctly? With 10 cities with a Hanse in each, the bonus would be +50% production per CS trade route??? It can't work that way, it'd be the most op thing anywhere ever.

No, if you have 5 trade routes with CS, each city with a Hanse will get 25% (5 trade routes x 5%). So a 25% boost in those cities. Number of cities and number of Hanses is irrelevant.

 

[Greizer85]

No, if you have 5 trade routes with CS, each city with a Hanse will get 25% (5 trade routes x 5%). So a 25% boost in those cities. Number of cities and number of Hanses is irrelevant.

Are you sure? It says that a city doesn't even need a Hanse to benefit from the bonus:

+5% Production per City-State Trade Route across your civilization, not just cities that have a Hanse

So you could just build a single Hanse to get the bonus everywhere? I guess I'd have to see it in action to clear this confusion...