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Fall Patch changes discussion thread

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by Tinker, Oct 1, 2013.

  1. lockstep

    lockstep Prince

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2004
    Messages:
    389
    Location:
    Vienna, Austria
    I like the additional Tourism benefits, especially the reduced unrest time and population loss. Makes selective mid-game conquest more rewarding!
     
  2. Smokeybear

    Smokeybear Emperor

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2011
    Messages:
    1,240
    Location:
    US
    Changed MINIMUM_SETTLE_FERTILITY to 20000, up from 5000 to keep AI civs from settling worthless plots. Added some logging code to track plot values.

    YESSSS!!! Lot of good stuff (some incredibly long overdue...), but that one made me cheer the loudest.
     
  3. Matthew.

    Matthew. Deity

    Joined:
    Sep 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,179
    The same choice any Civ makes, has nothing to do with Japan. Given more air slots than oil, Japan has the advantage in that they don't need to sacrifice bombers to have any fighter support.

    If you are in a situation where your oil exceeds air slots and you choose to go with all bombers, it doesn't matter how awesome Zeros could/would/should be, you weren't going to use them anyway.
     
  4. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    937
    Location:
    New York
    Yes. Japan should be able to embark automatically (on coast only) and its workers should be able to build fishing boats without need to build a fishing boat.

    OR

    Japan fishing boats should be half production cost.
     
  5. notyourtypical

    notyourtypical Warlord

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2013
    Messages:
    119
    The changes absolutely make Japan more isolationist, you've just missed the changes that do it. It's the Zero requiring no oil coupled with the stack limit on air units. If AI Oda or a human puts a stack of Zeros in a city, an attacker is effectively unable to use their bombers. You'll need at least 7 or 8 fighters to air sweep. Japan becomes a harder nut to crack after flight as you're limited to a ground war.

    Incidentally, the stacking limit also increases the value of AA guns. Why set fighters on intercept and lose a bomber?
     
  6. benjamin28

    benjamin28 Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 26, 2003
    Messages:
    266
    Location:
    Buenos Aires
    I agree that Japan changes are too situational and somewhat bizarre (really? Mighty armored warriors building... fishing boats?), but what really matters is...

    Yaaayy!! :woohoo: That sounds very useful, varied and flavorful! I totally expect the Epic of Gilgamesh, the Popol Vuh, the Genesis Book and so many others.
    Archaeology is already fun. With these changes it will be better than ever!
     
  7. Green_Power

    Green_Power Chieftain

    Joined:
    Nov 17, 2005
    Messages:
    88
    Location:
    Portugal
    My personal favorite:

    Will start a beta game today!
     
  8. El Caballerion

    El Caballerion King

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2010
    Messages:
    937
    Location:
    New York
    Can Mac users participate in the Beta?
     
  9. Cyanfunk

    Cyanfunk The Lion

    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2013
    Messages:
    268
    Location:
    Huxley U.
    The samurai fishing boats thing is probably a reference to Miyamoto Musashi.
     
  10. TheMarshmallowBear

    TheMarshmallowBear Benelovent Chieftain of the BearKingdom

    Joined:
    Dec 27, 2006
    Messages:
    7,285
    Location:
    Inside an Ikanda.
    They finally made notifications appear correctly in hotseat, such an irrelevant thing made me super happy, but I still am hoping for denoucements!
     
  11. fyar

    fyar Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    343
    Maybe my favorite change is the added benefits to tourism. The trade route beakers are pretty much negligible (even 4 :c5science: when the next tech needs thousands of beakers is miniscule), but the diplomat/spy surveillance boosts as well as the unrest reduction are VERY cool ideas.

    Second favorite change was the archaeology stuff. A buff to Exploration and its finisher, obviously, but also the diplomatic benefits to creating a landmark for other civs or city-states is nice.

    Third would be not having the AI build crap cities in the north pole just to get a solitary fish.

    Obviously the stacking limit to air units was needed. I think it should've been even lower (like 3, 6 with an airport), but then maybe have Forts also function as Airbases after Radar.

    I'm also glad that they fixed the scaling for musicians, writers, and scientists. I liked playing on epic, but I was disinclined to do so because of the comparatively weak scientists.

    The social policy tweaks were all very nice, but unfortunately they were still just tweaks, when what was needed was a larger scale fix to make the other policy trees comparable to the Tradition-Consulates-Rationalism play.

    I think the added culture for Japan helps to make them more isolationist... it's more tourism defense. Unfortunately I think they'll still be well below average.

    I agree with making diplomatic victory more difficult, but merely increasing the arbitrary vote threshold just seems lazy, and still doesn't make it any more fun. I would've liked the idea that someone else had, where the United Nations is a world project like the World's Fair, and it has to pass and be completed before votes could take place. Maybe have certain resolutions that can only be proposed through the UN (not the World Congress) so that you might have a reason to vote to form the UN even if you aren't going for a diplo victory.
     
  12. Glassmage

    Glassmage The Desert Flame

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2011
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    1,623
    Location:
    USA
    samurai build fishing boats? ...... other than that solid patch! :)
     
  13. Haig

    Haig Deity

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2010
    Messages:
    2,318
    Location:
    Finland
    Landsknechts pillage without movement cost and get double the gold when capturing a city.
    They can also move immediately after purchase.

    Really cool '30 years war raping Europe 1618ad' vibe.

    They need the Mercenary Army social policy from Commerce branch to be activated (and civil service tech)
     
  14. Alziel

    Alziel Warlord

    Joined:
    Nov 20, 2010
    Messages:
    109
    Location:
    London, UK
    I think I can see one of the intentions with Japan's changes which I haven't seen mentioned yet.

    If you conquer and puppet an enemy city miles away when it is on the coast and has pillaged or non-improved sea resources you can just use your conquering army (assuming it includes Samurai) to get the resources improved almost instantly. Otherwise you have to ship a workboat over there or annexe the city instead.
     
  15. Mudrac

    Mudrac Orc Warchief

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2013
    Messages:
    322
    Location:
    Orgrimmar, Durotar, Kalimdor
    This may sound like a dumb question. But is the patch live or is this just the preview of the changes?
     
  16. Ninakoru

    Ninakoru A deity on Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2002
    Messages:
    658
    Location:
    Madrid, Spain, Europe
    Totally agree. There's a still near-always best option in the policy department with little room for customization on higher difficulty levels. Full tradition -> consulates -> secularism is again the safest bet.

    And yes, a nerf is what I ask for. Policies shouldn't be so important to gameplay, tradition alone will mark the rest of the game tremendously. It kills all the policy customization initial purpose.

    Piety need a small boost in culture culture and maybe some happiness. Honor is plain horrible, need some actual early army support instead of miscellaneous crap. Still a nerfed vanilla-oriented policy tree.

    I'm quite disapointed, the boost to GG generation.. seriously???
     
  17. Carl5872

    Carl5872 Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2008
    Messages:
    772
    Location:
    Mentor, Ohio
    I love the patch overall, but one of the funny things was the Great Admiral "improvement". Now you can take your worthless GP and... move him around faster!!!
     
  18. Hammer Rabbi

    Hammer Rabbi Deity GOTM Staff

    Joined:
    Jan 3, 2012
    Messages:
    4,460
    Location:
    USA
    oddly enough, me too. i even came into post about it but you already have it covered, haha. the annoying valueless cities are a real pain and this fix really stood out to me. im curious as to how it will actually play out.

    edit: also no adjustments to Sacred Sites that I saw. emperor and under can still get a CV pre-t200.
     
  19. dshirk

    dshirk Firaxian

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2005
    Messages:
    820
    It's available now for testing. Check out the sticky at the top of the forum. :)
     
  20. fyar

    fyar Prince

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2013
    Messages:
    343
    I think the main purpose of that modification is to fix the really annoying situation where you finally get a Great Admiral, and he spawns... in a city by some lake. In that case, he really WAS worthless. Now, at least you can move him to some other cities, and have a slightly less worthless great person.
     

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