Fall patch discussion thread

Well, this new AI is definitely broken in my opinion. So, I'm playing a game on Immortal. Russia is constantly declaring war on me for converting one of their cities to my religion even though he was the one who attacked my Apostle and the resulting loss converted his closest city... this is just absurd! Even worse, it happened over a 1000 YEARS AGO!... and he is still declaring war on me for it.

The next bit is even more ridiculous. Every other Civ starts declaring war on me even though a couple were actually allies just a few turns ago and I've been nothing but nice to them for the entire game.

Me no like.
 
Waaaah!

Just checked my relationship with Harald in a new game I started and I'm getting a hit with him for "moving forces near his cities".

Those "forces" were a single scout I had moved past his lands like 2 hexes from his border. Come on, game .. I'm not going to start a war with one scout, am I?

S.
 
I'm on mac and so I can't apply the patch yet. Has anyone tested the new balanced maps? How good are those?
I just finished a game on the 6-player snowflake map, it's pretty fun actually. Lots of contention for the middle where all the natural wonders and most of the strategic resources are, as well as just the strategical chokehold on the map in general. Of course taking control of it also means everyone is going to gang up on you. At the same time it also has a lot of options for naval battles on the sides in-between the land-tongues. I think this could actually be a great multiplayer map for those who play that (I don't)

Haven't tried the 4-player one yet
 
Well, it seems Apostles can now stack... so, Religious Stacks of Doom now?

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Let me share my experience (playing as France on Emperor difficulty, pangea with some inland seas).

Let me start with positives:
a. AI is more aggressive in the beginning and much better attack cities. In Classical era I again left my capital poorly defended and China AI made really good effort almost taking it. they sent good military force (4 warriors + slinger) and they really tried first to siege it and then take down defence. However, for some reason at the moment when they could've taken my capital (just one last attack), China offered peace paying 1gpt! Mb AI tried to save its damaged warriors, but still a bit stupid move.
Although not ideal, siege process really improved comparing to what it was before. I'll check how it will work with AI+ or AI cleanup, mb these mods will work differently with the new patch.

b. AI settles in a good locations, prefers rivers/seasides and avoids empty desert. Also, AI usually settles new cities at a distance of 3-6 tiles from existing ones - sometimes it's 3 tiles when there is a lack of space/close enemy border (which is imho smart thing to do) but in general settling process is fine. Also there is no insane settlers building - AI spreads steadily. Overall, I think this part is fine (although need to test island maps).

c. Looks like AI understands how to use city-state army. In my war against China city-state army marched to my city and seiged it - it was soo nice surprise (screen attached). i don't know whether CS did it or China AI bought its army but it is really great. This helps to eliminate over-spamming of CS units.

d. AI builds good number of districts and really competes for GPs - I managed to get only one great scientists and when I look on Great writer points some unmet civilization producing 16 GW points per turn(!).

e. AI builds wonders actively - I couldn't get any wonders (and tbh construction costs are ridiculous for many of them) in my game. AI tries to build them straight after researching the required tech.

Now about negatives:

a. AI peace offers are still weird. Mentioned above peace was strange but didn't impact on the game. However, during my second war with China I managed to take one of their cities and killed many units (however AI still had sizeable force).
They offered at first 37 gpt (before city was taken) and then after it they offered 4 luxuries and insane 102 gpt! This was at medieval age and I didn't see many ai caravans so I suspect AI somehow cheats when makes these offers. It really breaks the game...

b. Warmongering issue: I took one city at Medieval age in a defensive war and got denounced but literally everyone. I think this leads to smaller number of wars and as a result AI doesn't lose their units, leading them to concentrate production on workers/districts/buildings.

C. AI snowballing: I don't know how much is the AI production/science bonus on Emperor difficulty, but I played with less science per pop (city spec mod, 0.50spp instead of 0.7) and smaller tech boosts. And still, brazilian AT crews in 1470ad! I guess if Sumeria would be in the game, I would see modern armor at that time. AI bonuses need to be reduced and some penalties/bossts needs to be added for being massively ahead or behind in science.
 
Many useful improvements :)

Still no map regenerate button :(

I have a disease. I don't want to play England in the middle of a jungle, or Russia in a desert...
 
I want to take 2 seconds to think about the name of the patch, "fall patch" ...
Is it about the movie "the fall", the TV series, a wrong translation of "Der Untergang" movie ... ?
I can't understand ... :p
 
Quick summary: I put together a short video for anyone looking for a rapid breakdown of the patch's biggest changes to the game. If you or someone you know is looking for a quick summary, I think you'll find it useful.

I went with a "Top VI Changes" format, but I was very liberal in my inclusion of multiple types of changes into single points on the list.

Feel free to reply with thoughts on whether something else from the patch should have been given more emphasis; everyone has their own take on what makes these updates valuable to them, and your feedback will help me make future update videos for Civ even better.

Enjoy!

-H

 
The AI is still bad. It still attacks cities on a whim and then stops. It offers peace and is happy to give up a city when it doesn't suffer particularly badly from the war and has tech advantage. It still carpets units cluelessly.
 
How do warmonger penalties with unmet civs work now? I am playing Russia and smashed Egypt on our own little continent.

Tens of turns later I meet India living on another continent and notice there is a -8 penalty in our relationship due to "They think you are a warmonger".

Why? They shouldn't be able to know any of my elimination of Egypt back in the mists of time.
 
Soo just me or are observation balloons not working at all after the patch? Like the stacking was supposed to be gone (which it evidentially is), but now even one balloon does literally nothing as far as I can see. Still 2-range artillery, 3-range rockets

I saw the same thing in the saved game I played with the patch. I did not try building a new balloon just deleted the useless one. I would like to hear if anyone has tried in a new game with bombards.
 
Balloons seem to work fine for me. Note that the bonus applies to units in adjacent tiles, not the same tile as the balloon itself.
 
Disappointed with the contents of the patch to be honest. Lots of major bugs not addressed (overflow, map pins, unit movement overlay, etc...). And of course almost nothing on the AI or more general game balance, but I wasn't expecting that. Now to try and make it compatible with my mods...

I see a lot of issues with the AI addressed. Sure, there will be a lot of work to do to fine tune it, but this patch addresses the major, obvious problems:

Reduced Warmonger penalties in most instances, and adjusted how this reacts to returning versus keeping a city. The last city conquered from a player now provides a heavy warmonger penalty, even if you have a Casus Belli against this player, because you are wiping out a civilization.

  • Adjusted AI victory condition focus to increase their competitiveness in Science and Tourism.
  • Adjusted AI understanding of declared friendship.
  • Adjusted the AI approach to beginning and ending a war based on potential gain and loss.
  • Increased AI competitiveness in building a more advanced military.
  • Increased AI usage of Inquisitors. Especially Phillip.
  • Increased AI value of upgrading units.
  • Increased AI use of Settler escorts.
  • Tuned AI usage of units that cannot move and shoot, like Catapults.
  • Tuned AI city and unit build planning.
  • Improved the ability of city-states to maintain a strong military.

On another note, I love that when loading a saved game, we get a different general quote depending on the era that you are in.
 
Balloons seem to work fine for me. Note that the bonus applies to units in adjacent tiles, not the same tile as the balloon itself.
Wait what? Okay I didn't try that so you may be right but what kind of sense does that make if so? The whole point of the balloons is to use them as support units that you link up with your siege units... like I could accept a balloon only affecting the tile it's on but not the surrounding ones, but the opposite scenario is just stupid
 
Wait what? Okay I didn't try that so you may be right but what kind of sense does that make if so? The whole point of the balloons is to use them as support units that you link up with your siege units... like I could accept a balloon only affecting the tile it's on but not the surrounding ones, but the opposite scenario is just stupid

That's not bad. I would link it up with one infantry unit and move them with a couple artillery units. They have the same movement points as each other and the infantry can guard the balloon. He can detach and take the city once it is down to zero health. If you brought a movement general, I guess once you get to your destination, you just swap out with other units.

I haven't tried this yet, but I will make an effort to do so next game.
 
Allowing the naming of cities is good. Can you choose and name your own Civ using one of the others as a base like with previous Civ games?
 
With the new patch, has anyone noticed if the AI will repair damaged/pillaged districts -- notably production and spaceport. I had a saved game from pre-patch where I damaged the Russian's two spaceports (as they were building mars related projects), and they never repaired them. Post patch, they did not repair them either; I was able to overtake and win.

Hopefully this is just an issue with a pre-patch saved game and post patch people are seeing the AI repairing damaged/pillaged districts. For me, this is the one real issue still not addressed that breaks the game.
 
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