Fall with Fleme

[Fleme]

Agrarianism at Calendar, Aristocracy at CoL - the combo is accessible very early. I personally hardly ever play it because a) I find it overpowered and b) playing it creates an unhealthy dependence on the combo and c) I simply like other civics better, but once you reach Sanitation, there's no denying the power of a riverside grass tile bringing in 4/0/4 with just a farm - it stands up to towns as it supports a specialist on top of being awesome in its own right.

That said, a farm at 3/0/3 isn't much worse, but Financial does add a +33% commerce to that and sanitation the extra +33% food. A fully matured town on grass without financial or riverside is 2/0/4.

This entire adaptive discussion might be premature but I wanted to get it going because it's nice for the player to be able to make an educated decision rather than winging it when the situation does hit. In my experience the interval is random, but then again my experience with FF is not that extensive.

 

[Jarrema]

I would also love to know when the next change would be at our game speed?
I am affraid that it would be 100 turns or more from now. And info about it should really have an impact on our discussion

EDIT: I know for sure thatpoints of change are not random. I even knew one day when the change come.
It is something like: Turn 90, turn 190, turn 290... etc.
Or maybe: turn 40, turn 90, turn 140...
I know for sure that this info is SOMEWHERE at civfanatics

 

[Jarrema]

I found it!
It is in manual written by... hm... was it Xienowolf?

I will cite it here:
Option to change comes 5 turns before every multiple based on gamespeed (ie - turns 70 and 145 would be the first changes on quick)
Quick: 75
Normal: 100
Epic: 150
Marathon: 300

So, for us, the first change will come at turn 145... and second on turn 295.
So, it is looong shot

 

[uberfish]

Even if we don't aristofarm, financial trait still helps cottages a lot since taxation comes so late. FFH specialist economy is generally weak because there's no Pyramids, the civics that enhance specialist output come really late, and lightbulbing is a lot less effective.

So I vote financial. The merchants of the crescent isles would clearly agree with me here.

I would only consider philosophical with a specific plan of what exactly we are going to do with the GPs.

As for spiritual, we already have 2 named Disciple types, and being locked out of two useful religions if we stick with N'zesh SIGNIFICANTLY reduces the trait's appeal (as one of the things it's nice for is switching religions around to get the unique units and buildings.)

Adaptive switch is ~t100 on normal, so correspondingly later on Epic I guess. Should have education / CoL by then I'd hope.

 

[lymond]

Well, teching is pretty slow right now as is the game on this speed, so I guess let's see where we are on turn 144 and reassess. I don't think we need to lock in now to a trait. The discussion is good though.

I did think we were going for FoL and could actually adopt it regardless of N'zesh.

 

[AntiTwelve]

Just to clarify, we switch on turn 147. This has been the case with my two prior Austrin games.

We should be planning for the next thirty turns. I'm still for a pagan temple and a hawk as soon as hunting comes in.

 

[Jarrema]

I almost never build a hawks. What we need them for?

 

[Brian Shanahan]

Scouting, they are very useful, especially if you're planning a war, expecting a war, or have allies spread over a barb filled map.

Most games I build four or five and after scouting use them as very useful war intel.

 

[AntiTwelve]

I almost never build a hawks. What we need them for?

Shite, what Brian said. Not to mention early tech trading.

 

[lymond]

Agree, hawks are nice. But don't forget that we have Messy.

I'd like to capture that Griffon as well. I like to perch them on peaks when at war and have them pick off units.

 

[AntiTwelve]

Agree, hawks are nice. But don't forget that we have Messy.

Few points on the game: I didn't specify this either but Messerschmitt is a personal companion to Gryndane and cannot leave his side in any case. If Gryndane should die, Messerschmitt relocates to Telyhohn.

Aww, lymond.

As for the save, I'll go with the DM's suggestion of picking up the save if there is no word from Lion tomorrow night. I hear his country is committing to some crusade or other.

 

[Fleme]

Yeah, looks like it's up to you to play this set since there's no comment from Old_Lion. This puts uberfish on deck.

 

[Old_Lion]

Oki, once more I'm a little bit late.
I'm playing later tonigth after reading comments, following general opinion.


as for our crusade, I don't know what do think about this desert adventure. Could well be a trap!.

 

[lymond]

The Lion roars

I think we should see at least some sort of plan before playing. I don't think we need to be as meticulous here as we are in the SGOTMs since this is all about fun, but it is still nice for the team to have a general idea of what you plan to do in your turnset.

 

[Old_Lion]

Wel,
you're probably rigth about that, but my being late and in a hurry had me playing fast.

I felt like not having the rigth to have you waiting longer, so I played and tried to follow the ideas expressed in the thread. If ou want me to give a plan next time even if it takes a little longer, I'll do that.

But for this time, I'll just report, while trying to explain what I tried to do.

 

[Old_Lion]

Oki : My jdea was to send one party with Gryndane and wolfbane to the north, and our lizard to the south with a warrior in order to destroy that forge.

Tancrede was to purify Foxford area.

in our city, building some force in order to replace the units leaving for mission, and a pagan temple.

in term of techs, after hunting, calendar for Agrianarism civic

turn 95 :
Messerschmitt infoms us here are strong werewolves, and there is some count entrenched in a keep near the ruins.. The werewolves are... strong (8)

turn 96 : more scouting : we see a mine that must be fizziks, and a narby city : all is guarded by .. strng looking dwarves (strength 8 to 13 !)

we also spot this :

Wolfbane is promoted to exlorer for the great journey north.

97 :
oops : werevolves incoming, and they are damn fast.
Gryndane postpones his trip abroad in order to get rid of the beasts.
He is more than qualified for the task. (and Messerschmitt helps)

After destroying moving werevolves, We send a message to count Lukos, who obviously prefers to stay in his keep. Gryndane will leave to Cahir Abbey asap in order to get some help before a new wave of beast arrives.

101 : Gryndane attacks warriors, and capture.... ravening werevolves ?
OMG : Gryndane is a lycanthrop now ! He was probably biten during the figth !

He then goes to the north, greeting Fizziks on his way.

During that time, the southern party meets Mokka, and plenty of barbs. nobody ever attacked them during the whole journey. Agruorn priests are that intimidating !

word comes that elohim have difficulties. They lost a city to barbs.

102 :barbs are everywhere, and there are many figths.

some guy pretends we are not very clever :

in the capital, we promote a rogue to exlorer, because we want to figth Mokka in the desert where he is suposed to have a -50% malus. He does not, abviously.

Fate, having heard we have not much money anymore, organizes an event. too bad.
It gives us an unhappy citizen.

Gryndane and wolfbane, going north, discover who is he great warrior that conquered Elohim city : a boar rider called dark iron charger. badass.
This guy later decides to attack Cahir abbey, where Tancrede waits for us !

108 : we got hunting, we got ivory. and we lose most of our ravenous werevolves to some warrior barbs, while Mokka closes in

109 : N'zesh obtains satisfaction in the south

while in the north, Gryndane kill the iron charger.

somewhere else :

So : we have two mission progressing well. But our city is under severe attack.
We destroyed quite a few barbs, defensively, but they did commit pillage, there are more to desry, and mokka is still here.

our heroes need to come back fast !

 

[lymond]

Well, it's cool that Gryndane is a werewolve. I was hoping that would happen. Too bad he didn't convert the Boar Rider or whatever that was. We should pop that Goblin Fort next to him. How did his name change?

The pillaging is not good at all. I was really hoping we would kill Mokka at the beginning of the last turnset. This is the reason I pointed him out in my report and on the map. There's not much we can do I guess but get Gryndane back. He should kill him easily.

What happened to Wolfsbane? We keep losing our rangers.

Looks like the Ljotfsar are somewhere out there.

 

[Fleme]

Two balance issues:

1) Now that Gryndane became a Werewolf, he's "nerfed" to 6/8 from 7/9. (not really a nerf since pre-werewolf he was 5/7)
2) Dark Iron Chargers backfired (lack of playtesting) and as a result Inishbofin has been restored under Elohim rule

Quests

Of Wolf and Man:

Spoiler :

Our champion, fallen victim to the very curse that befell Foxford. The one people of Telyhohn relied on for protection feral, ridden by a terrible hex. People of Telyhohn are afraid of this new turn of events and the explorer council divided on the proper course of action and look to you to make the ultimate decision. As a safety measure, until the decision has been reached and proper action taken, Gryndane is not allowed to re-enter Austrin territory.

1: Request assistance from the Elohim healers to attempt removing the curse from Gryndane
2: Lycanthropy must not be allowed to spread to our general populace! Champion or not, he must be locked away until we can conclude that he would be of no threat to our people!
3: Look at what happened to Foxford when the situation was left unchecked! He must be disposed of before the man goes Feral and causes our doom!
4: There is potential in this new turn of favorable events. Surely we can utilize the condition to further augment select future soldiers. Now he is a true champion!

Additional information from Lukos Keep:

Spoiler :

It is reported that the howling in the night has ceased since the last raid on Telyhohn. There are no reports of werewolf activity and some scouts are suggesting that perhaps the werewolves abandoned their keep and moved east after their last raid - some are suggesting that their ultimate goal was simply to spread the lycanthropy to an Austrin soldier and in the champion of the people, the bite was felt. What will become of the Austrin?

Gryndane's Dilemma:

Spoiler :

The bite healed well. Almost too well. The wolfman had been monstrous, standing at least three feet taller and its fangs had sunk through the studded leather armor as if it hadn't been there at all, spreading it's infection. The Werewolf had fallen to the spear in it's ravenous assault, however, and the wound had indeed healed in no time.

But now, the people fear me. Where there used to be respect for the Guardian of the people is now whispers and dread. Who can blame them? The werewolves destroyed an entire prosperous village and nothing could have been done to prevent it. What if the disease takes over and I attack my countrymen? My friends? At the very least, there must be a way to control it for the greater good. I must visit Zik Fizziks and see whether there is anything he can invent to control the infection so that I'm not a risk to my people.

Q: Visit Zik Fizziks to see if he can help control the Lycanthropy.

Previous quest:

Spoiler :

It would seem that the presumed Alpha Werewolf was simply a greater werewolf and not the source - or alternatively that it's offspring have gathered to avenge it but either way, the werewolf terror is escalating.

There is howling coming from the eastern hills and it is sightings of rabid werewolves and wolves have been made. Perhaps the emblem of the Lukos family on the Heart Amulet found on the Alpha bears some clue to what might be behind the terrors; Lukos was the governor of Foxford and his citadel overlooks the ruins. Further investigation is in order.

Furthermore, something needs to be done to the ruins of Foxford and the explorer council is offering various approaches to the subject:

Quest: You need to resolve what to do with the ruins of Foxford and you need to do it fast.

1: Bring Brother Tancred to visit and sanctify the ruins to let the spirits of the villagers rest. Furthermore, enlist Tancred's assistance in fighting the unholy beasts

2: Approach the keep and try to establish contact with whoever is in charge of the Werewolf and try to negotiate a treaty of mutual non-aggression.

3: Dispose of the unholy creatures with the only method that works with them, cold steel.

Rewards or results will be posted according to the approach you choose.

What will you do? There are sightings of werewolves roaming in the east and they will surely become more and more aggressive as the situation escalates and they grow stronger.

N'zesh's Bidding:

Spoiler :

Yessss, burn it to the ground! Thissss, my friend, isss but the firsst blow of many to come againssst the falssse gods. Agruonn isss pleaasssed and you are the firsst to receive hisss gift.

R: The warrior becomes a mutated Wyvern Guardian

Now, with your word kept let usss move towardsss common goalss. I grow interesssted in the lycanthropy your champion now hasss - One of the greater giftsss Agruonn ever grantsss hiss followersss and rarely ssseen. Thisss is a very favorable turn of eventss and he musst have pleasssed the Dark Eye to receive ssuch blesssing. I mussst attend to the champion right away, a gift of this magnitude will not be wasssted!

Q: Get N'zesh to meet Gryndane before the end of next set.

Personal quest for N'zesh: Draw Strength

(forgoing the extended s's from now on, actually)

Spoiler :

It has been too long since my blade last tasted blood. I must hone my skills once more and please Agruonn if I am to fight against the champions of Kalshekk and Omorr.

Q: Kill 5 units with N'zesh

R: Gain boost in one of the N'zesh's classes, your choice:

1: Mage
2: Priest
3: Rogue

Previous Quest:

Spoiler :

Hssssss..... Your honor bound you to assssissst me in my quessst againssst thossse falssse godsss and here we are while that vile forge sstill ssstandsss. I urge you, lend me a warrior of your people and let ussss go dessstroy that forge. If you refussse, I will make you regret the day you were born, warmblood.

Q: Dispatch N'zesh and a pillage-capable unit (warrior) to destroy the forge as soon as possible or face the consequences.

Legend of the Stargazer

Spoiler :

One of the oldest items in the reliquary of Telyhohn is a staff in which there are etchings depicting the council of men, elves and dwarves. The meeting in the depiction occurred in a field of dancing spirits, seen over by an ancient, the Stargazer as is etched in the hilt of the staff. The recent discovery of a place resembling that described in the staff has brought new interest to the relicand it would indeed seem that if such a thing exists, the stone circle Messerschmitt spotted is something we need to explore.

Q: Explore the Recluse of the Stargazer

I got Dark Iron, I got all the Dark Iron

Spoiler :

It would seem that the concerns of Zik Fizziks were well placed. The Dark Iron expedition that has sufaced in the discovery of Dun Karagh poses a significant threat and the Elohim have already been subjected to their raiding. These dark dwarves seem to be drawing their powers from the darker gods as there is a Balor spotted guarding their stronghold. A decision must be made.

Q: Resolve the Dark Iron situation in one of the following ways.

1: Dwarves, even more so Dark Iron dwarves, are belligerent and will not listen to reason. If we are to secure the mountain pass their fort stands on, we must destroy it.
2: Live and let live. These dwarves have just as much right to be here as we do - it is merely a matter of perspective.
3. We must attempt to open negotiations with the dwarves to see whether we could reach a peaceful solution to allow Fizziks' to access the mine once again. (If this option is chosen, screenshot when you're next to Dun Karagh or the guarded mine)

Other ongoing quests:

Fizziks versus the Dark Iron

Spoiler :

Zik Fizziks sent another clockwerk to bring a message to Telyhohn for whoever it may concern including the following text:

"Gryndane? I thought we were friends, was I mistaken? My clones left and I have not seen them since and I'm beginning to feel vulnerable here in the edge of the desert. You see, I almost had it all figured out but then you left me at the most inopportune moment - in my folly I did not find it in me to ask you for one more favor, you know?

Anyways, my situation is dire. I've lost contact with Underhome and to make things worse, Dark Iron Dwarves led by Garak Blightanvil have seized control of my only source of copper and I desperately need it back.

I've drawn a sketch that is attached to this message revealing the whereabouts of my mine; It's due west-northwest from my workshop along the mountains, in a valley. Garak's fort, Dun Karagh is nearby and he has posted strong guardsmen at my precious mine.

Now, it has come to my attention that you not only have become a full-fledged guardian but aligned yourself with a Tlacotl? That is fantastic! Surely a pair of powerful heroes like you can help a goblin out.

Q: Destroy the defenders guarding Fizziks' mine.

R: Fizziks' reveals a source of Copper in or near your lands which will be available to you come Bronze Working (your land does not have natural Copper) and you gain control of 2 Fizziks' Braziers guarding the pass. (Fireball defense)

Oh and before I forget; once those clones of mine have completed the road, have them stop by for some "enhancements", I figured how to make them more effective.

Merchants of the Crescent Isles:

Spoiler :

A welcome sight for weary eyes! My name is M'rafaal and I am the leader of what is left of this merchant convoy. We sailed here a few years ago and established a trading post to ensure a connection between the islands and the far east. We were, however, ill prepared for the hardships of this land and being a seafaring folk, had little to fight the lizard raiders with. Our budding settlement destroyed we were forced to skulk in these woods and live off the land and fend off constant attacks. We are but merchants without a home and plead to you, kind sir, help us. Help us re-establish our settlement, protect it for us and we will show you what a little trade can do to a growing empire! Here, we've drawn a map of the lands just south of here.

Q: Establish a city on the ruins or within 1 square of it.

R1: Receive a market in the new city

R2: The merchants have gained a profound knowledge of the flora and fauna having lived off the land for years and are able to spot new resources. Your choice of Ivory/Deer/Silk/Reagents is located nearby and improved.

R3: The merchants will construct a seaworthy ship for you. (Receive Galley with some promos)

Elohim Friendship:

Spoiler :

Word has reached the Elohim that the Austrin are struggling with considerable lizard infestation and they wish to send humanitarian assistance to help those in need. Brother Tancred and a cart of supplies have been dispatched but are waiting for further orders on how to reach Telyhohn.

Q: Make sure Brother Tancred and the Cart of Supplies reach Telyhohn safely. Consider dispatching Gryndane to escort because the way is filled with perils.

R: You gain the supplies the cart carries (potions), the cart itself (can hurry production) and Brother Tancred will offer his services to you as the Elohim liaison. (Conditions revealed when the convoy reaches Telyhohn)

Game terms: A weak convoy needs assistance. Getting this done might help with Elohim relations in the long run and net you a potentially powerful cleric as well as free stuff. If the convoy attempts to cross the distance on its own and perishes, this obviously means you lose the goodies and take a relations hit with the Elohim.

Also, the mandate to seek out more civs.

Change summary:

-Promoted Gryndane to Weak once again (-1 str)
-Destroyed Warrior accompanying N'zesh, replaced with Wyvern Guardian named Gift of Agruonn. Is mutated with Weak, Diseased, Cannibalize, Heavy and the innate promotion of Defensive. The unit is at 5 strength.
-Added Mobility I for the supplycart. Should make moving it a little less problematic/time consuming.

Next up is AntiTwelve with uberfish on deck, although I assume there will be some discussion about what to do next before the next set is played.

 

[Brian Shanahan]

As regards the N'zessssssssh personal quest I'd like to call for mage. It'd be better than priest IMO and more generally useful than ranger.

Do we have to de-laycanthrope Gryndane or is it a straight choice between city and N'zesssssssssh. And it's a pity about losing the werewolves. I was looking forward to employing Angua von Uberwald.

Finally with "Legend of the Stargazer", I vote we use the Picard Manoeuvre on that.

 

[Fleme]

You don't have to do anything you don't want to do - there are various ways to all the content I add and the future changes will be done according to your choices; The voices against the lycanthropy are merely those of the population who fear this new turn of events and their champion being cursed.