Faroese Whaling Controversy

[AnimuX]

As usual for these sorts of threads, the original post has left out some important information and glazed over the facts.

The most serious omission is the fact that Faroese doctors have actually advised people to stop eating pilot whale meat due to contamination from mercury, PCBs and other pollutants. A long term study has shown noticeable neurological effects in children and pregnant women are warned not to consume it at all for fear of harming the developing fetus. So it's not something that 'may be unhealthy'. It is absolutely unhealthy.

As for the 'arguments for whaling'...

Another way of saying the Faroese slaughter of pilot whales is 'non-commercial' is, there is absolutely no economic or nutritional reason for it in the first place.

Pilot whales are highly migratory animals, and while the annual slaughter does not threaten to make the species extinct it routinely involves destroying entire family groups at once -- which means eliminating genetic diversity that could potentially benefit the species overall.

Culture is no excuse for torturing or cruelly killing masses of animals.

In a curious arrangement, somehow the Faroe Islands gets to enjoy the benefits of being a protectorate of Denmark and all of the subsidies provided by the European Union, but doesn't follow the EU laws which prohibit killing whales and dolphins. Otherwise, the UN Convention on the Law of the Sea states in article 65 that nations shall cooperate for the conservation of marine mammals.

The Faroe Islands is not some distant tribe of natives living off the land. It's a modern western nation. Not one person will starve if the pilot whale slaughter is stopped. The hunting is opportunistic. In fact, the main export of the Faroe Islands is food -- specifically fish.

The Faroe Islanders 'claim' that the animals die in seconds, which is incorrect. They first drive the animals into a panic by chasing them with boats banging metal poles in the water. They herd the animals into shallow shorelines. Then the screaming village of people go running into the water to jab and stab the whales with hooks. Ropes attached to the hooks are used to drag the whales onto the beach, in many cases by hooks inserted into the animal's airway. Only then, after the animal is up on the beach, does one of the Islanders begin sawing into the neck, severing the spine, and cutting arteries. It is an inherently cruel practice.

 

[emzie]

Yeah, if the Faroese weren't white people would care a bit less. Somehow it's extra cruel because they look like the people calling it cruel.

I'm not going to pretend the slaughter is pretty. It ain't. But it's far less cruel than what we do to animals in factory farms.

 

[Tarquelne]

I assume, that as a fellow sci-fi fan, you really mean sapient, since "sentient" is almost always used incorrectly in sci-fi.

Anecdotal, but animal-rights people IME tend to use the term properly. In general I think animal rights advocates have realized justifying animal-rights on the basis of sapience is both difficult and unnecessary.

 

[Thedrin]

If a person opposes whaling because they're sentient they should oppose most meat industries. Opposing it because whales are sapient does not require that, though it's debatable whether or not whales are sapient.

As usual for these sorts of threads, the original post has left out some important information and glazed over the facts.

The most serious omission is the fact that Faroese doctors have actually advised people to stop eating pilot whale meat due to contamination from mercury, PCBs and other pollutants. A long term study has shown noticeable neurological effects in children and pregnant women are warned not to consume it at all for fear of harming the developing fetus. So it's not something that 'may be unhealthy'. It is absolutely unhealthy.

It was mentioned in the OP.

 

[Gucumatz]

No, I'm not vegan. I am opposed to the killing of sentient beings.

Guess you don't eat plants either?

And frankly I hate the paternalistic statements made on issues like this. Sure they look just as "Western" as those who complain, but it doesn't change culture and centuries of tradition. Imposing a different set of laws on a different entity is another example of overreaching imperialism, not unlike centuries ago with the silly 'moral' tones used to justify it

 

[Arctic Daishi]

It was mentioned in the OP.

He copied and pasted this same exact message, word for word, on the other board I posted this at. Not that it makes his post invalid, as I clearly did the same thing.

 

[EvenStranger]

I'm not going to pretend the slaughter is pretty. It ain't. But it's far less cruel than what we do to animals in factory farms.

Nothing beats seeing someone lecture a hunter for being cruel while stuffing themselves with factory farmed meat, but I see it constantly. Hell, I used to spew that particular bit of hypocrisy myself. Hunting/fishing for animals that get to live in their natural habitat until they are suddenly killed is far less cruel. The problem is that it prevents people from being morally insulated from the reality of eating meat.

I just accept it. I was born an omnivore and I will have blood on my hands.

 

[Masada]

Yeah, if the Faroese weren't white people would care a bit less. Somehow it's extra cruel because they look like the people calling it cruel.

I'm not going to pretend the slaughter is pretty. It ain't. But it's far less cruel than what we do to animals in factory farms.

Pretty much this.

 

[EvenStranger]

They aren't just white, they're white.

There needs to be a new category for whiteness of this magnitude.

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Guess you don't eat plants either?

Okay, fine. SAPIENT.

I know what I meant, even if I find it difficult to put into words. Suffice to say that there are some lifeforms on this planet that I would never consider it moral to eat. This includes whales, dolphins, elephants, dogs, and cats. And squirrels. I'd never eat them, either.

Yes, of course I eat plants. Yes, I eat pork, chicken, eggs, fish, beef...

In a perfect universe, we wouldn't ever have to kill anything that was once alive in order to eat.

And don't you guys DARE derail this thread into a vegan-carnivore-omnivore free-for-all fight. If I want that, I'll go to Care2 where I can express myself more openly without risking infractions or bans.

 

[Gucumatz]

Well you don't have to eat them now do you? Unless you happen to be Faroese, it angers me more that people would try and intercede on centuries of tradition with the imperial paternalism they have no legal or even moral right to

 

[emzie]

Okay, fine. SAPIENT.

I know what I meant, even if I find it difficult to put into words. Suffice to say that there are some lifeforms on this planet that I would never consider it moral to eat. This includes whales, dolphins, elephants, dogs, and cats. And squirrels. I'd never eat them, either.

Yes, of course I eat plants. Yes, I eat pork, chicken, eggs, fish, beef...

In a perfect universe, we wouldn't ever have to kill anything that was once alive in order to eat.

And don't you guys DARE derail this thread into a vegan-carnivore-omnivore free-for-all fight. If I want that, I'll go to Care2 where I can express myself more openly without risking infractions or bans.

Pigs are smarter than dogs or cats and smarter than most whales and dolphins, yet we keep them in some truly horrid conditions their entire life. Where's your moral high ground about that?

 

[Valka D'Ur]

Pigs are smarter than dogs or cats and smarter than most whales and dolphins, yet we keep them in some truly horrid conditions their entire life. Where's your moral high ground about that?

And don't you guys DARE derail this thread into a vegan-carnivore-omnivore free-for-all fight. If I want that, I'll go to Care2 where I can express myself more openly without risking infractions or bans.

Not gonna continue with this thread if you're going to question my "moral high ground". I stated my opinion on the thread topic, I stand by it, and have nothing to apologize for.

 

[Lord Baal]

The most serious omission is the fact that Faroese doctors have actually advised people to stop eating pilot whale meat due to contamination from mercury, PCBs and other pollutants. A long term study has shown noticeable neurological effects in children and pregnant women are warned not to consume it at all for fear of harming the developing fetus. So it's not something that 'may be unhealthy'. It is absolutely unhealthy.

Thank you. That's what I was mostly interested in.

It makes me wonder why they even bother. Is it a sovereignty issue, or do the Faroese rely on fishing so much that they're afraid if whaling is abandoned then soon they'll also be banned from catching other fish, as the Japanese are? Tradition tends not to matter to most Western peoples these days, not this much anyway. It's not like fox hunts are a weekly occurrence anymore, after all.

If a person opposes whaling because they're sentient they should oppose most meat industries. Opposing it because whales are sapient does not require that, though it's debatable whether or not whales are sapient.

Agreed entirely. I would personally prefer to not eat meat at all for this reason, but I'm poor, can't cook for crap and my daughter is allergic to quite a few plants. Therefore, she needs meat. Therefore, I eat it as well.

They aren't just white, they're white.

There needs to be a new category for whiteness of this magnitude.

They're one Segway short of a Weird Al parody.

Okay, fine. SAPIENT.

I thought so. I'm not trying to start an argument, Valka, being a long-term sci-fi fan myself I'm aware that most sci-fi fans get those words mixed up. I do it myself pretty regularly. So I just wanted to make sure I knew what you were saying.

I know what I meant, even if I find it difficult to put into words. Suffice to say that there are some lifeforms on this planet that I would never consider it moral to eat. This includes whales, dolphins, elephants, dogs, and cats. And squirrels. I'd never eat them, either.

Elvis would be most displeased that you won't eat squirrels. I can understand whales, dolphins and even elephants on the sapience issues, but dogs and cats? Is it because they're pets? I could never eat a cat, but that's only because I have one, and she's adorable.

In a perfect universe, we wouldn't ever have to kill anything that was once alive in order to eat.

Agreed. I want the replicator from Star Trek. I would almost immediately waste it on Earl Grey tea, even though I don't drink it.

 

[Formaldehyde]

If the whales are all that contaminated by dangerous toxins compared to fishes, wouldn't all those who eat them be dead or at least seriously sick now?

Why are pilot whales the victims of so many toxic substances in such supposedly high concentrations given how much they roam compared to other species of sea life?

 

[potatokiosk]

If the whales are all that contaminated by dangerous toxins compared to fishes, wouldn't all those who eat them be dead or at least seriously sick now?

Why are pilot whales the victims of so many toxic substances in such supposedly high concentrations given how much they roam compared to other species of sea life?

Who knows. I guess this calls for some more scientific whaling.

 

[Lord Baal]

Who knows. I guess this calls for some more scientific whaling.

I would imagine that Faroese eat pilot whales a lot less than they eat fish, so the higher quantities of nasties in the pilot whales don't have the same effect as if they were eating them as regularly as other seafood. As to why the pilot whales suffer worse contamination, maybe it's because the whales eat the already contaminated fish, thus increasing their own exposure?

 

[Tarquelne]

If the whales are all that contaminated by dangerous toxins compared to fishes, wouldn't all those who eat them be dead or at least seriously sick now?

Most of the people who've eaten significant amounts of pilot whale meat are dead.

But for the most part "that" contaminated is long-term-health-problems contaminated.

Why are pilot whales the victims of so many toxic substances in such supposedly high concentrations given how much they roam compared to other species of sea life?

1). Top(ish) of the food chain, accumulate toxins, relative longevity.
2). What they eat, and what it eats, may not get around much.
3). Squid in international waters are free to use PCBs in the creation of ink.


Where did we land on Valka D'ur's diet? I was confused by the list. Only eats sapiants?

 

[AnimuX]

I would imagine that Faroese eat pilot whales a lot less than they eat fish, so the higher quantities of nasties in the pilot whales don't have the same effect as if they were eating them as regularly as other seafood. As to why the pilot whales suffer worse contamination, maybe it's because the whales eat the already contaminated fish, thus increasing their own exposure?

Correct. Toothed whales eat at the same level of the food chain that we do. Except they only eat fish, so all of the mercury, PCBs, and other toxins that build up in fish also bioaccumulate in pilot whales.

Way back in 2008 Faroese chief medical officers Pál Weihe and Høgni Debes Joensen announced that pilot whale meat and blubber contains too much mercury, PCBs and DDT derivatives to be safe for human consumption.

Edit:
Their research revealed damage to fetal neural development, high blood pressure, and impaired immunity in children, as well as increased rates of Parkinson's disease, circulatory problems and possibly infertility in adults.

 

[AnimuX]

Pigs are smarter than dogs or cats and smarter than most whales and dolphins, yet we keep them in some truly horrid conditions their entire life. Where's your moral high ground about that?

Actually, scientists have determined after decades of research that cetaceans are the second smartest creatures on the planet. In fact, some scientists argue that cetaceans should be granted special rights as 'non-human persons' due to their observed intelligence.

Also, there are plenty of campaigns against cruelty in agriculture.