Fascist Patch for Civ3

[deleon]

Originally posted by Viridovix
I agree. The mod is not only in bad taste but also poorly models a historically insignificant form of government.

I would leave the patch here however, for people to download and try. Go ahead and play it. Think of yourself as being the kind of person who would lead a nation in that way. When you get the sickened feeling in your stomach you know you are human. Then delete the patch and be glad that men who would play it gleefully are little more than mice in the pipes or long ago dead and correctly vilified.

Remember, for to forget is to relive.
Viridovix

You have got to be kidding me "a historically insignificant form of government." You must have lived under a rock, Fascism is about as historically insignificant as Communism, During the 1920's through the 1970's there Fascist governments, Remember A historically insignificant Government such as Fascism was responsible for a WORLD WAR and over 15 different Nations becoming a Fascist regime! Germany, Italy, Argentina, Spain, Iraq, Yugoslovia, Austria to name some not to mention the pro-Fascist governments of Britain and France. The only reason why Fascism seems horrible to all of you is because you only read one-sided Histroy, I AM Not a Fascist nor will I ever be racist but come on people "historically insignificant" that is juts plain crap! Communism is responsible for triple the Death count then Fascism, what if we listened to people like Patton maybe communism would be horrible as Fascism!

Just some thinking to do for you all!

 

[Wolfshanze]

KALIROB2k2, give it a try... I think you'll be pleasantly surprised by it's balance with the rest of the game system.

Despite all the political attacks and people who can't even comment on the patch's value on the game itself, Fascism is very well balanced between late-game Communism and late-game Democracy, and it also manages to fix-up the naval balance of units better.

Give it a try... I think you'll enjoy it.

 

[El gran capitán]

Hello. Well, I´ve readed this tread, and I must admit that is quite interesting. I think that there´s nothing inmoral about to play with the fascist patch. Why?. I love this game but you must recognice that is quite hipocrit. The democracy is far to be the best goverment, and the communism was so bloody as the fascism. I would never use this goverment because I think that these kind of games are like an RPG, you “live them”, but I think that it would be great to fight against a fascist civilization (he, he). And don´t say that the fascism didn´t had any influence. It changed completely the geopolitical world situation, and is crucial if you want to understand the XXth century. Yes, it was a horrible sadistic goverment, but also the communism (in fact, the number of executions were almost the same). You can´t ignore the masacres of the history just because they are not “politically correct”. If we make that, well, why we don´t put out the US as a civilization?. The war of Cuba, the Vietnam´s massacres, Hiroshima & Nagasaky, the support to Israel on the Palestinian genocide... the sad and bloody events of the history must be faced, not ignored. The fascism is one of them. Let´s face it, and accept it existance. If not, we will make againg the same mistakes, because the political correctness and the the “aliby silence” are the best dictator´s weapons.

 

[Leonel]

Originally posted by Alturiak

Return To Castle Wolfenstein sigle player had most of the SS simbols censored and the multiplayer had all nazi related symbold removed.... so they wont show any swasticas.

Really? Well I haven't really gotten the game yet, but ya know what I mean! Speaking of which, I must get Return To Wolfenstein... and Medal Of Honor; Allied Assault... mmmm... D-Day Landings...

 

[Knightrider]

Wolf...

Two thumbs up here!

Just wanna say, after having visited the website, it's clearly a website for a gamepatch and nothing else... I don't mind seeing images of the Third Reich... frankly, that's all the History Channel ever shows anyways!

Don't know why everyone turns this into a political debate... come-on people... it's a game patch, not a movement. Lighten up folks! I'm actually going to comment on what this patch does (for a change).

As for the patch, I love the way you implemented Fascism... it's really well-balanced and thought out. It has enough "good things" to make you wanna try using it, but enough "bad things" to make you wonder if you should really be using it at all!

I think Fascism as you implemented it, is best used by players who are constantly in and out of wars... if you're always in a war, you should be Communist, and if you're always at peace, you should be Democracy... but if you're in a lot of little wars, then Fascism seems the best solution (is this intentional Wolf? You seem to hit the "Lightning War/Blitzkrieg" motif right on the head with this patch!!!).

I also love the way you balanced out the naval units with this patch. The Privateer now actually does something, and I have played the v1.16 patch by Firaxis, and frankly, the way you redid the naval units shows you put more thought into it than Firaxis did!

Bottom line, I like the Fascism implementation you did... well thought out, well balanced, great for quick little "lightning wars", but I'd rather be Communist in a long war (which is really the way it should be). Excellent fix on naval balance, and the adding of Hitler instead of Bismarck is a great idea (though I like the way the other guy is doing his Hitler images... maybe you two could team up on this one!?!?).

Keep up the good work Wolf!

 

[Dark Sheer]

To be honest, I didn't use the mod downloaded But instead I add the government type into my own mod (as I already added like 8 new units to my own mod ) and I give Fascism a whooping 20 free units and that makes it a perfect war machine.

It seems that the AI just love it when they go to war. 80% of my games' AI government are Fascist !! Of course, there is a WW currently going on.

Hmmm...time to go back to my game and join hand with the Fascist Germany (as the Democratic American of course ) to crush the Imperialist Japanese (Yup, they maintained Monarchy )

 

[Le Petit Prince]

by Virdovix...

Think of yourself as being the kind of person who would lead a nation in that way. When you get the sickened feeling in your stomach you know you are human.

So this mean you surely not nuking cities or hurry production ( forced labor... - 1 population) and never sneak attack a civ when you play...Oh may I remind you that your country nuked 2 cities...I'm sure you're not feeling bad...now ask that to Japanese people still sick of leukemia...

You should also delete despotism (people had no right, slavery)

and monarchy (the crusades :Ethnic hatred, Inquisition : killing of innocent scientists and also slavery )

and Republic (2 nuke - extermination of Native american which i found worst then the Holocaust)

and Democracy...(mega capitalist companies: children working at 5 cents per hour around the world...2/3 of the world now...and you dont even realize which is kind of propaganda or worst)

If the facism had won the War it would have been the democracies and the US that were awful...

I cannot believe that the same players who think nothing of bombarding cities full of innocent citizens, pummelling down a civilization with many important cultural ideas to add to the world by slaughtering all their peoples, and even grinning when you fly a nuclear weapon of mass destruction into a rivals city, wreaking unheard of agony on its peoples for decades to come, yet you protest a patch that adds facism to the list of optional governments?

I think saying "Zieg Heil" is not worst than "God Bless America" even if i'm kind of an american... Ouf! au moins je suis québécois...

 

[Carparker]

I don't know if this point has been posted yet or not, but here goes anyway. The fascist website says that the point of the patch is to add fascism as a form of government. Well, isn't despotism a lot like fascism?? And since despotism being the beginning govt type, what's the point of "upgrading" to the same govt type later? I realize the effects are probably different, but the two govt types seem kinda similar to me.

Also, in response to communism. The leaders mentioned that practiced cruel opression (Stalin and Pol Pot) were leading "communist" govts in name only. They truly practiced more fascist or despotic methods of rule.

Furthermore, the idea of communism is not to wield supreme power with an iron fist, but to inform and unite the working class against such exploitation. Fascism and communism are at the opposite ends of the political spectrum.

Perhaps a more appropriate govt for gameplay purposes would be socialism, to sort of bridge the gap b/t democracy and communism, levelling production and war weariness.

That said, if you're a biggot or a Hitler lover, then get the patch or the simple Hitler head change, decrease the quality of your gameplay, and ignore all reason.

 

[That_Darned_Gun]

I am reading this post aqnd I am amazed at the low intellegence factor of some people. Hitler took Fascism to the extreme, it isnt true fascist. If you decide to remove that from the game then u must remove all governments because ALL have commited atrocities, every one of them. And , once you decide what stays and what goes you become like the people you say you hate. One form of censorship is no different than another. One suggestion..Get A Life its just a game. Its Not Real. If this government offends u then dont use it. Stalin killed more people than Hitler ever dreamed of killing and they were his own people. So,, Why dont we all just shoot them and let God sort them out.
Get A Life,,If you want a game without atrocities then play Pac Man.

 

[Uto3]

I think the Fascist government is a great idea and I was actually missing it in the game. Fascism just has a bad name because it is very unfair to people, as it takes away their freedom and stuff. But we should realize that fascism DID work. We should always remember that without Hitler's 3rd Reich we weren't travelling to Mars. And the country I live in (Holland) wouldn't be as powerful as it is (Hitler built a lot of highways from Germany to Holland, for faster troop deploiment), which would bring further complications (it was Philips, a DUTCH (not American, DUTCH) company, who invented the CD). And the Germans loved to work for Hitler. The only problem was his bad intentions (the war) and his hatred against the Jewish people.

The reason Fascist countries are looked upon as being bad in these decades is because of the memory of Hitler, but (as I remembered from earlier in this thread) if the Germans would have won the war, we would be just as happy, if only a little less prosperous.

A government type like this should really be in the game and also someone should add Fundamentalism, Socialism and this Japanese samurai-age government type. The game simply has too few options.

 

[KALIROB2k2]

I must have to agree with Uto3, goverments themselves arent inherritantly "evil", its who in charge and wielding the power that can cause the problems and mar the goverment in the eyes of outsiders.
Not to mention how its percivied when you hear its name. Just having Hitler as one of your most memorable leader sure doesnt help out with winning people over or getting morale But just because of Hitler or others doesnt mean we cant include the goverment.
I mean kind of like Stalin and Communism... only difference is Stalin was no where near as horrible as Hitler so he didnt gain as much attention.
I'm not anywere near knowing alot about history, but I do know about about the public relations department heh and that basically thats what this boils down to.
Hope I am on subject heh, I dont have my glasses and I am having trouble seeing to well.

 

[Starwind]

Humm... I myself changed worker efficiency to 150%. Sure it makes Fascism arguably THE best type of government, but who am I to deny that fact.
BTW. Those who complain against this patch havent really opened their eyes. Democracy=compromises, fascism=efficiency.

 

[Zouave]

The REALITY is that the conflict between the dictatorial government, and the private corporations who helped install that government, created a tension that led to some inefficiency.

Germany pre-1943 was rife with a multitude of rival programs and was not especially efficient. Only in 1943 did Germany go on full War Mode for production, that after the Stalingrad disaster. By then it was too late, fortunately.

So fascism has inherent problems and cannot be assumed to be especially efficient.

And the same goes for Italy and Japan, but less so for the latter owing to the religious aspect.

 

[Uto3]

The problem with Fascism in Civ3 would be that Fascism comes in many different ways. Like Zouave said it isn't really efficient.

I did the folowing: -Rename Communism to Fascism. Set prerequisite to Nationality or something like that (the thing before Communism)

Created Communism:
- Loads of free support stuff.
- Low efficiency (People don't do their favourite jobs, so they won't work that hard)
- No war weariness

This creates a system of 3 government types. 1 for good support, 1 for good efficiency and a 'middle of the road'-government.

I don't really think it is all historically correct, but is gives you good gameplay.

 

[Genuis]

A lot of this game (and all games) has to do with killing and war.

 

[MetalChild]

wolfshanze, why don't you simply rename your government to "national socialism"? this way nobody can complain about your reference to hitler and the swastika.

but I BET all would come and complain how you DARED to leave out fascism, such a significant element in world history. *lol*

oh yes, and by the way - though i may be the only one in the whole world - when i entered your website the first time (reading through all of this thread actually got me checking back several times) i suddenly started laughing - because from the very beginning i realized that all those hitler images and swastikas (and no less the background music *lol*) were actually FUN.


and just to make this post civ3-related, i'd like to add that i really apreciate the fascist/national socialist/whatever government addition, along with fundamentalism.

oh my god, i took both fascism AND fundamentalism, i'm such a baaaad guy....

i'd just like to add that the way this thread has gone is basically ridiculous.

so now everybody come on and flame me.

 

[NapoleonXIII]

I am reading this with more and more astonishment.
The ACTUAL differences between communist and facist rule are small. Ideology differs, but the rule is the same. There is talking about the efficency of Facism being greater than under Communism. I dare to say this is false. China is presently under communist rule (sic!).

The Chineese communists has murdered about 90 millions (sofar), The Russian communists about 30 millions. The German nazis are AFAIK "only" third in this absurd competition, about 15 millions murdered. They are all the same evil , Brown, Black or Red. Simply rename "Communism" (rule and discovery) with "One party system".

Napoleon XIII

 

[Wolfshanze]

Sorry about my long disappearance... I was deployed to the Persian Gulf for some time, and when I first got there, I could access the site, but I got moved to a more remote location and couldn't get on the internet at all! But have no fear, I'm back in the US now, so all is well!

As for the Fascist Patch, I won't be renaming it to "National Socialism Patch" anytime soon (it just doesn't have the same ring to it). Furthermore, no matter what I name this patch, people are going to complain... some people just aren't happy until they tell everyone else what they should and shouldn't think, and what they should and shouldn't like (kind of a Fascist outlook on the world, don't you think?).

As for all these people who keep saying there's no differance between Communism and Fascism and or Despotism, once again, I reiterate, if you see no differances, then somepeople need to take some sociology classes in school. Yes, they're all run by the "tyrant" system, but the similarities tend to end there. Ancient Despotism was tribes and chiefs with no economic policies of any kind... far removed from complicated 20th century economies of Fascists and Communists... furthermore the way the economies of 20th century communist and fascist regimes were run, were SIGNIFICANTLY differant from each other, as well as diametrically opposed social programs, so PLEASE people, stop saying because one person is in charge, or they killed "X"-number of people that they are identical systems of government... you all couldn't be more wrong (or assinine in those assumptions to use a stronger word).

 

[Plutarck]

The reason Fascism is "evil", and the reason people look badly upon it, is simply because of what it is. According to the dictionary, fascism is:

fas-cism (fashizm)
n.
1. Often Fascism. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.
2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.
[Italian fascismo, from fascio, group, from Late Latin fascium, neuter of Latin fascis, bundle.]

Note "oppressive" and "suppression", using the means of censorship, and terror, and the the note of it typically possesing "billigerent nationalism" (*cough* patriotic *cough*) and "racism".

Not all governments are equal in their rightness or wrongness. Further, whether something "worked" or not is completely determined upon what system of grading you are using. If egalatarianism(sp) is the basis of success and failure, Fascism failed miserably. If building an empire upon lies, torture, and repression is your basis of success and failure, then it succeeded.

The same goes for capitalism, in that it has only succeeded in so much as the creation (and in some cases, the distribution) of wealth and for producing the "most fit" entitys that work towards those ends is listed as a success.

In moral, ethical, spiritual, and philosophical terms, fascism was a failure. It is almost solely because of Hitler that we even know what Fascism is, leaving fascism's success in history only measured in the mangled bodys it's left behind.

Fascist beliefs, however, weave through all of history and have been the basis of just about every "harmful" set of beliefs in all of history. That is, that those who disagree are to be supressed by any means neccessary.

Just look around, and you'll find that brand of fascism just about everywhere. But Fascism as a relatively pure government type, no, it's mostly extinct. Not that many factions in America aren't doing all that they can to re-establish Fascism again, however. May Joe Pesci save us all...


However, as for Fascism being a Civ3 government type, it's an obvious (and sensible) choice. If we get rid of harmful governments, we're not going to have any governments left. The minimalist state is the only moral form of government of any type, as well as being the most wise and resistant to corruption of all types, but Civilization isn't about what's good for the people - it's about what's good for the ruler, ie, YOU, and be damned with all the little guys.

It's an awful philosophy to live by, but it's a fine basis for a game. So can fascists on both sides give it a rest?

Somehow I think the thrashing of the equine shall continue...call me crazy.

 

[Wolfshanze]

I don't have a problem with Plutarck's post... sounds reasonable enough!