faster tech?

[phillip1882]

i've played civ 4 for many years and it seems no matter what i do i cant tech nearly as
fast as most human opponents.
i'm building cottages out the wazoo, i go for currency by turn 45, i get a early religion and often the great prophet upgrade, but i'm almost always muskets around 1200 ad, riflemen around 1600 ad, and infantry around 1850 on the quick game speed. bee-lining for them.

 

[NothingBesideRemains]

Early-game micromanagement of build order and worker turns are critical. Simarly, beelining currency before you have your worker techs in place can reqlly hurt you. Also, founding an early religion is rarely cost-effective, though on easier difficulties it should be fine.

Have you tried watching any of the live gameplay on youtube people have posted? You will likely notice some early game habits that deciate strongly from your own.

 

[lymond]

Early religion and focusing on great prophets does not help you much at all. You can always capture shrines later. Worker techs first are always the most important thing. Then focus on producing Great Scientist for an academy and bulbing strategies. I'd say great people are a big part of your problem here.

Quick speed will really exacerbate your mistakes. Not much room for error at all on that speed. I don't care for it.

Currency is good, but this whole bee-lining thing is suspect...that and the other stuff you mention. Sounds to me that along the way you are ignoring setting up good tech trading opportunities.

Not sure what level you are playing here.

(edit: wait...is this about Multi-Player?)

I don't have much advice for MP play. It's not discussed much in this subforum. Probably the advice depends a good deal on the rules you play by. For example, Teamer games were strictly about combat out the gate, whereas Free For All (FFA) games or pitboss often have rules in place to bar warfare for a certain period of time, so individuals have time to focus on empire building first....or in some cases no warfare at all.

I'd still say gong for early religion and shrine is not good. You still want worker techs and focus on food first, then production. Get up a Library fast and get an academy in your capital. Bulb Philosophy with your second GS...you'll get a religion then if you already did not get one from Code of Laws.

 

[sampsa]

In general, you should start cottaging after you've expanded to say 4 cities. Assuming you have decent city spots, chopping settlers/workers is often a lot better than starting cottages asap. The main value of currency is selling old techs to AIs and resource trades for pt, so if this is multi-player, I wouldn't value it very high.

 

[Fippy]

Hmm i usually see Currency high on everyones list in MP as well.
They prolly expand so much that every coin helps

 

[sampsa]

I haven't played MP so what do I know , but I fail to see a reason why exactly it would be an important tech. I also don't understand why expanding hard (talking about say cities 7-10) would be more important compared to SP.

 

[phillip1882]

i just finished watching a lets play and didn't realize how important court houses are. i thought the general consensus was 5-7 at most.

 

[sampsa]

In SP courthouses are not important and yes, 10 cities is better than 5.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

You mentioned cottages, but a specialized great person farm is always critical. You need at least one. I had a map with no good sites for GP farms (global highlands). I played the same game twice. First time I made the second city a good commercial cottage city. Second time I made it a mediocre GP farm. The game with the mediocre GP farm was much better.

If you are able to run representation because you built the pyramids, run caste and specialists for a while. The +3 science for each specialist is huge.

As others have said, courthouses are very important. Beyond that, build research or wealth.. If you have stone or marble, build wonders you never intend to complete for fail gold. Build Oxford as quickly as possible.

 

[civac]

In MP currency is an absolute key tech, way more important than in SP, especially if you play SP with tech trading.

MP is usually though not always played without tech trading. Sheer mass (of cities with trade routes and cottages) is more important then as you have to burn through way more beakers. Moreover, more cities mean more build queues. A competently managed medieval army from 15 cities tends to beat up a cuirassier stack from 8 cities.

 

[sampsa]

You mentioned cottages, but a specialized great person farm is always critical. You need at least one. I had a map with no good sites for GP farms (global highlands). I played the same game twice. First time I made the second city a good commercial cottage city. Second time I made it a mediocre GP farm. The game with the mediocre GP farm was much better.

If you are able to run representation because you built the pyramids, run caste and specialists for a while. The +3 science for each specialist is huge.

As others have said, courthouses are very important. Beyond that, build research or wealth.. If you have stone or marble, build wonders you never intend to complete for fail gold. Build Oxford as quickly as possible.

I respectfully disagree with nearly everything. I think GP-farm is not important, since most of the GP-points are optimally acquired during a golden age. Rep is good, but +3 per specialist makes a surprisingly small impact, since you should be running specialists mostly during a GA. +3 per city makes the difference.

Courthouses are rather weak, assuming no ORG. It's better to remain bigger and work more cottages. I'd build Oxford only in space games.

 

[LincolnOfRome]

I respectfully disagree with nearly everything. I think GP-farm is not important, since most of the GP-points are optimally acquired during a golden age. Rep is good, but +3 per specialist makes a surprisingly small impact, since you should be running specialists mostly during a GA. +3 per city makes the difference.

Courthouses are rather weak, assuming no ORG. It's better to remain bigger and work more cottages. I'd build Oxford only in space games.

It looks like the original poster is asking what he can do beyond building more cottages. He said he is building cottages "up the wazoo." He's probably already building cottages on every wet flat tundra tile and every plains hill with an animal on it. All you say is build more cottages. There are cases where more cottages may not be the solution.

Much of this is map dependent. Maybe you have a huge map and are running marathon speed. You are semi-isolated, so you chop out 6 galleys and 12 horse archers from your only city and set out to conquer the nearest civilization (some distance away). You will probably need to chop and whip courthouses on the conquered cities if you are successful. If you have a few tightly group cities on a Pangea map, you may not need courthouses.

First of all, you need 6 courthouses to build the forbidden city. The BUFFY or BAT mod is very helpful. You hover over a courthouse in the build screen and the mod will give you pretty good estimate of how much you will save by building one.

You have four cities with a population of six and build a very early Pyramids. You have libraries in all four cities and maybe a couple of forges. Your goal is to bulb engineering with an engineer or scientist for a treb rush by 500 BC. With two or three specialists in each of your four cities. In this scenario (about 40% of your total population are specialist), the +3 beaker per specialist is very significant.

You can respectfully agree with everything, but my advice is going to work in many cases. A vast majority of the highest level players recommend a hybrid economy (cottages and specialists). Great people farms are not controversial. You can work a completely cottage based economy (except for golden ages as you say), but it isn't always the most optimal.

 

[6K Man]

Build Wealth. Money NOW, not money later.

Great Lighthouse (much better than Pyramids IMO, assuming you have enough coast) + offshore trade routes

Early Library for early Scientist

 

[sampsa]

It looks like the original poster is asking what he can do beyond building more cottages. He said he is building cottages "up the wazoo." He's probably already building cottages on every wet flat tundra tile and every plains hill with an animal on it. All you say is build more cottages. There are cases where more cottages may not be the solution.

True, it's hard to give good advice without even seeing the actual problem. From experience I'd say people who struggle with "economy" don't expand fast and hard enough and don't build enough cottages. I do not know if OP is one of them.

First of all, you need 6 courthouses to build the forbidden city. The BUFFY or BAT mod is very helpful. You hover over a courthouse in the build screen and the mod will give you pretty good estimate of how much you will save by building one.

Yes, you can do the math and see if they are worth building. Depends on a lot of factors.

You have four cities with a population of six and build a very early Pyramids. You have libraries in all four cities and maybe a couple of forges. Your goal is to bulb engineering with an engineer or scientist for a treb rush by 500 BC. With two or three specialists in each of your four cities. In this scenario (about 40% of your total population are specialist), the +3 beaker per specialist is very significant.

True. The problem is having only four cities until engineering. Usually there is a faster breakout available.

You can respectfully agree with everything, but my advice is going to work in many cases. A vast majority of the highest level players recommend a hybrid economy (cottages and specialists). Great people farms are not controversial. You can work a completely cottage based economy (except for golden ages as you say), but it isn't always the most optimal.

Well, it's hard to understand how it could be anything but a "hybrid economy". are WAY too good to disregard. Cottages are -neutral and simply good bread'n'butter-tiles, even if you are going for a more specialist-heavy strategy. I don't know if GP-farms are controversial or if that has been claimed. For me, past the first golden age it won't really change much. If the game lasts long a GP-farm will be useful, as you just won't be in a continuous golden age.