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Fastest Science Victory

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Lightning5555, Feb 14, 2016.

  1. Switch80

    Switch80 Chieftain

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    Ah, well I almost went for oracle but I think Maria got it pretty early. Will maybe try again next go.

    NC was at T83
    Edu a little late at t115
    and I was kind of late getting RS

    Yeah, it's way too small. Really not sure why. I'm sure I worked all specialist slots in each city, but will double check later. I probably did waste some beakers, particularly when Theodora DoW on me, I bulbed some techs at the bottom of the tree to get some advanced military, but never less than 3 turns to go to research.

    *EDIT OK I checked slots, and i didn't work factory and stock exchange in Warsaw and some others in the other cities (guess because I wanted to keep the growth up). Should I always be working all slots?
    Not sure on this one, quite some time before I won. Guessing around T220.

    Thanks for the help.
     
  2. Babinski

    Babinski Chieftain

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    Congratulations, well done :goodjob:

    I agree that it is a very fast first deity SV. Here's a few questions for you.

    Do you have any ideas why you got DoW:ed t210?
    You said you did no loans. Did you sign any RA:s? Rush-buy any of the science buildings?
    How many GS did you have saved up post plastics?
    Is this the same game you posted screenshots of earlier in this thread? I remember you went 4 into Patronage before Rationalism. How many CS allies did you have at that time and after?
     
  3. TomeTraveler

    TomeTraveler Chieftain

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    So I came here to post that, thanks to this thread (and others--thanks to all the good advisors out there!) I finished my first "real" deity victory tonight. I say real, because awhile back I did a deity domination win on a duel map for the achievement, but that's not a victory, that's proving I can take one city.

    And I see that Switch80 had not only the same experience, but even finished in a similar time! Mine was one turn slower, at 269, science, Casimir. My endgame science was even smaller, around 1050 I think.

    I spent most of the of the last 60 turns fighting off various combinations of Pacahuti, Maria, Caesar, and Askia. Fortunately Shaka was on the other side of the world, and also fortunately, by the time the war came around I was ready to build a small air force that kept me from losing anything worse than a few hexes to pillage. I kept a very small army, normally dead last in the demographics. Much as I want to increase that, it's hard to fit the military builds in!

    I think I bulbed a total of 13 GS after plastics. My timing definitely could stand improvement but I did finish about when I thought I would, from thinking ahead circa turn 200.

    Policywise I did try something just a little different from the recommendations here, Tradition, Piety, three into Rationalism, then to Mercantilism before Freedom and finishing Rationalism. I'm not altogether unhappy with the detour into Piety, nor altogether happy with it--Jesuit Education came too late to buy any Universities, but I did faith-buy half my public schools, and all of my research labs. And I wasted about 1200 faith buying missionaries to convert City-States with quests, that I later decided would have better served me in buying a second GE (I faith-bought 1 GE and 3 GS).

    All in all I'm happy. I'm sure I can do better, but after many losses, any win is a good one.
     
  4. Switch80

    Switch80 Chieftain

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    Thank you Babinski. I will try and answer your questions as best I can remember as I only have an earliest save at T252, unfortunately.

    1. I did sign RAs - as many as I could really, until I was way out in front of other AIs (T220ish) However, I didn't really have a method as I'm still learning this part of the game so it was hap-hazard! :) I was able to rush-buy 2 universities but hard built the other two. Same with labs, I think I had to hard build most. As far as DoW goes, Maria coveted my lands and Pedro was annoyed I spied on him/chose freedom (when he like most, chose order). There were a few other things for Pedro but can't remember them. I wasn't too concerced about him though, as had the CS buffers between us.

    2. As far as I can remember I think I saved around 5 GS post plastics but it was nowhere near enough - the last 40 turns I kind of knew I would win, but just couldn't get tech researched fast enough.

    3. It was indeed the same game I posted earlier in this thread. I made sure I allied as many CS as I could (think around 6-7) mostly Cultural/Maritime/Mercantile. I had these for most of the game. The three to the south of my cities really helped give me some protection from AIs too as both Pedro and Theo DoW me.

    I definitely need to work on my mid-late game. I'm not overly sure about best tech orders.

    Thanks for help (next game I will make saves at key turns so I can post some screenies) and congrats Tometravelor - sounds like we had very similar games.
     
  5. Babinski

    Babinski Chieftain

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    Cool. Good thing you signed RA:s. I usually work on good relations, after the initial worker steals, so that I get as many DoF before Education as possible. After Education I sign one RA for each turn (so that I won't have any trouble with overflow) and refresh them 30 turns later and do 3-4 waves depending on expected finish time. Nothing more to it than that.
    Because my plan is to make DoF with everyone for the RA:s, it's very rare that I get DoW:s. Be careful and take notice on your diplomacy.
    I take as many loans I can to bye RA:s, science buildings and CS allies.

    Yeah, 5 GS isn't alot :). Did you bulb a few before? I try not to bulb any GS before plastics. I usually have 10+ GS when I hit plastics. If I have that, and a full wave of RA:s, 2 faith bought GS, a few natural borns after plastics and Hubble, I can finish within 30 turns from Plastics. Key thing is as many working specialists as possible in your cities when you bulb. After Plastics you fill all slots and sacrifice growth and aim for 1300+ beakers and you're good.

    6-7 CS allies before Rationalism sounds rather good. To make the most out of Patronage and scholastisim you need to keep on working on getting more thereafter.

    As for tech order, I am sure you doing it right. Most of the players go the same route.
    I go Education-Astronomy-Printing Press-Scientific Theory-Radio-Plastics-Rocketry/Satellites-Advanced Ballistics-Particle Physics-Nanotech. I do micro manage and skipping between different tech paths when I bulb tho, so that I allways get ONE tech researched every turn.

    Set your autosaves on every turn and max numbers to 999 and you will be able to go back and load whatever turn you want, without manually saving them.

    Hope this helped and again, gratz on a very good job!
     
  6. Babinski

    Babinski Chieftain

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    :goodjob: Good job u2

    And with random opponents aswell. I play after HoF standards so I pick my opponents. You got Shaka, Askia and Ceasar hehe :crazyeye:.

    Interesting strategy with Piety. Will have to try that out.
     
  7. TomeTraveler

    TomeTraveler Chieftain

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    That would be my ideal but I have a hard time fulfilling it in practice due to two constraints: getting enough money, and having DoFs with everyone. "Normal" for me is probably having enough money and friends for 3-4 RAs each cycle.
     
  8. Switch80

    Switch80 Chieftain

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    I had DoF with Theo up till about T200 then she stopped being my friend and eventually coveted my lands.

    Yes I bulbed a couple to get plastics iirc. I'll pay closer attention next game. As for specialists, first thing I can change then, I didn't do that last game.

    I was conscious of trying to save money for spaceship too, as well as pouring gold into CS.

    I definitely felt as though I was just clicking 'next turn' waiting for next tech at times so this tip will help.

    Will do :)

    Thanks for continually replying - helps us noobs a lot!
     
  9. Switch80

    Switch80 Chieftain

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    I second that issue, any tips?
     
  10. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    I played around with poxpower's map and finally played a game all the way through. I'm confident a top player can get sub-T200 on this map, aiming for optimal play.
    My finish was T207, playing with previous map knowledge while also fooling around trying to get big population: I built Temple of Artemis, got Fertilizer before Plastics, and Penicillin (Medical labs) before Rocketry. Arts Funding was passed at the 1st congress. I built 6 cities, including 2 after NC: 4 were coastal and 5 beside mountains. On T207 their pops were 49, 25, 27, 27, 25, and 24 for a total of 2007 beakers. I finished Internet, had 1 GS left-over, and signed 0 RAs, which makes me think someone might be able to crack T190 on this map.
    Policies were full Tradition, 3 in Commerce, full Rationalism, 1 extra in Freedom. Won WF without much trouble.
    I think this is a fun map with lots of options in how you can play it; definitely encourage more people to give it a try.

    Edit: save file is in post #137
     
  11. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    I played out the Babinski Great Plains map with Holy Warrior-conquest and was underwhelmed by the late game, ending things when it was clear it would not improve on T193. My army was essentially just from Holy Warriors, with upgrades. I hit Education T89, Astronomy T100, Scientific Theory T131, and Plastics T160 (buying 6/6 labs). I took 2 capitals, which were only 13 and 14 pop at T191. My faith output was poor, only enough for 1 GS and 1 GE. I had worse luck than last time with Patronage finisher, giving me a Merchant of Venice and Great General only (no GS or GE this time).
    The main advantage I saw was huge gold from trading 2 cities I didn't want and peace deals. I wouldn't have needed to take any loans to buy spaceship parts, while maintaining all CS allies. I likely made some mistakes, but the way I played it (didn't capture any capitals until after T100) none of the captured capitals contributed GS, whereas self-founding another city or two would have, and would have been higher population working more specialist slots.
    I think a stronger plan would have been to capture 1-2 cities earlier, so they could grow into stronger cities, or self-found 1-2 more cities and use war mainly to generate gold.
    T191 city pops were 34, 19, 20, 19, 14, and 13 for a total of 1657 beakers (155 from CS).
     
  12. poxpower

    poxpower Prince

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    Congrats on kicking my ass :D
    I rolled like 30 more spain maps after, definitely none were as cool as this one I randomly got super early.
     
  13. Babinski

    Babinski Chieftain

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    Remembering that you played games with random civs, picking your opponents could solve both these problems? Friendly civs and more trade opportunities.

    Also, I had Poland on a Great Plains map and took advantage of Ducal Stables. Another great bonus for an allready op civ.
     
  14. Manpanzee

    Manpanzee Prince

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    I spent some time exploring similar strategies last year, and ended up with a bunch of really promising games that had similar disaster-DOW endings. I distinctly remember one game where all 7 AIs DOW'ed me and none would ever make peace over 30+ turns. But there are other games where the AIs are desperate to give you everything they own to make peace. The diplo environment is unpredictable, but I think the strategy is sound with a bit of luck (but maybe Tradition is better than Liberty for this).

    One kind of out-there strategy I never actually tried was to rush Physics. If you're already doing Metal Casting before Education, the extra tech detour is marginal, and Babylon has early science to spare. The idea is 1. Build Notre Dame for yourself for a big chunk of extra happiness, and 2. Use Trebuchets as the backbone of a combined-arms Medieval push. This way you bypass Xbows -- your gold costs go toward upgrading Catapults to Trebuchets, and you can leave Bowmen as-is instead of shelling out for the full Bowman --> CompBow --> Xbow line. If the army composition actually works, I think it's an interesting alternative strategy.
     
  15. unrendered

    unrendered Chieftain

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    What is the optimal way to bulb scientists? I know when to do it but since returning from my break they apparently changed the way bulbing works, so how should you do it? (like using 1 scientist per turn or what)
     
  16. Iamteehee

    Iamteehee I only play SV

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    Beaker overflow capped at 5 turns of science. This means that you should avoid bulbing 1 or 2 turn techs. I try to avoid bulbing more than 1 GS a turn because it can sometimes cause overflow.
     
  17. unrendered

    unrendered Chieftain

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    So don't bulb if the leftover beakers from the bulb are worth over 5 times your current bpt?
     
  18. Sclb

    Sclb Emperor

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    You can bulb more than 1 GS per turn, but you have to watch the overflow carefully, as overflow starts accumulating after the first bulb and can only be applied to the tech at the start of next turn. So you can't use overflow to finish a tech the same turn you bulb.
     
  19. poxpower

    poxpower Prince

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    I rolled another Spain map that starts near Fountain of Youth lol.

    Turn 234 first attempt with 4 cities tradition, no observatories :(
    +20 free happiness all game is pretty hilarious though. I think I'll try again maybe with 6 cities and liberty / tradition mix... Lots of cultured city-states this map.

    I got slowed down because every single AI denounced me in the end so I had no one to suck cash from. They didn't seem to like me taking over all the city-states... boourns.
     

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  20. unrendered

    unrendered Chieftain

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    Are there any other spots you should use great artists other than when building world's fair, during world's fair culture bonus and in the end when converting hammers to science? And what about great musicians, do you just make them into great works?
     

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