Featured Game 1 Pre-Discussion

[Txurce]

Little offtopic.
So not working profesional army can be result of quick combat activated? I will check it soon.

This belongs in the Bug Reports & Beta forum.

 

[void_genesis]

Here is my thinking:
Move one NW and settle.
Aim to grow the capital as much as possible, after calendar go only for HG, go NC start and start pumping science (probably go for national epic too). Hagia Sophia would be nice if it comes at a time when I have nothing else to buy.
Go tradition/piety to begin.
Stonehenge seems like a waste for America- buying tiles is cheap enough.
Push for astronomy, explore to find islands worth settling then move into liberty.
Push to get Kremlin before the mid game expansion. The two border settlers are amazingly fun (and it only leaves one outer ring for cheap American land purchasing).
Hope for Forbidden Palace for a happiness help (this policy is a bit weak).
Use the Pioneer fort plus aqueduct and lighthouse to make late start coastal cities grow like mad. Probably plop science buildings in all of them for a science explosion.
Late game SPs dabble with commerce to improve gold and production.
The scattered coastal cities and mediocre capital production make a space victory non-ideal. Probably go for a diplo win, or domination if my neighbors are just too plain irritating.
Would anticipate the late game expansion will trigger an AI to DOW me, but should have minutemen and cannons/artillery by then if the science push works.
Early caravels might make Angkor Watt worthwhile if I have met most of the city states by then.

Of course all of this would have to be reconsidered if someone highly aggressive is living close by (or at least slightly delayed to prepare for defensive wars).

I'm betting Thal has probably snuck a psychopath in to make things interesting.

 

[Thalassicus]

I'm betting Thal has probably snuck a psychopath in to make things interesting.

I'm not telling!

 

[Gorhaax]

When Backing up the DLC I noticed a file just called "Shared". Is that stay or going?

 

[Thalassicus]

Leave that in place; only move folders with "DLC" in the name.

 

[Sneaks]

Hmm, high gold, crappy initial production start, with solid food.

From this start and this leader I would probably assume the following gameplay:

Probably going for a military victory or science victory here. Really depends on where neighbors are. High food = capital can be a total settler pump. If there is a close AI, absolutely going for early horizontal via conquest. If my initial 2 scouts find nothing, swapping to to settler pump to block off a solid bit of land and coasting in to a science win.

 

[rf900]

I am probably into this although I have a hard time switching from vanilla to VEM games, as I have to change the way I play. I understand that removing the DLC is for the new 3 wonders, as it is a savegame no DLC civs will appear anyway.

 

[Thalassicus]

Good point, it's just the wonder DLC that's important.

If we settle in place the automatic border expansion order is:

1. Sugar
2. Pearls
3. Marble
4. Random plains

If we settle on the hill:

1. Sugar
2. Random plains
3. Random plains
4. Marble

Any of these can be purchased for 25. Settling 2 tiles west has unknown order, since there's not enough information on the terrain there.

 

[Txurce]

Good point, it's just the wonder DLC that's important.

If this is the only reason, wouldn't it be much easier to clearly state that those 3 Wonders cannot be built by the players with the Wonders DLC?

If we settle in place the border expansion order is:

1. Sugar
2. Pearls
3. Marble
4. Random plains

If we settle on the hill, the order is:

1. Sugar
2. Random plains
3. Random plains
4. Marble

Any of these can be purchased for 25. Settling 2 tiles west has unknown order, since there's not enough information on the terrain there.

Is this something I could have theoretically figured out for myself without too much trouble?

 

[Sneaks]

Easily. Remember that every yield has relatively equal value to the AI in VEM. Meaning the initial 5 yield of Pearls will be the highest value of ring 2. Marble at 4 would be next, probably followed by riverside plains to the direct west, then the plains directly below that one. (The cultural borders always will choose the plot on the same side of a river as the capital before grabbing an equal value plot on the opposite.

 

[Txurce]

Easily. Remember that every yield has relatively equal value to the AI in VEM. Meaning the initial 5 yield of Pearls will be the highest value of ring 2. Marble at 4 would be next, probably followed by riverside plains to the direct west, then the plains directly below that one. (The cultural borders always will choose the plot on the same side of a river as the capital before grabbing an equal value plot on the opposite.

Thanks for the gold mine of information!

 

[Thalassicus]

Yields are ignored when the game expands borders. The important thing is "distance," essentially movement cost from the city tile.

If we settle in place the sugar is first because it's 1.5 away. Pearls are next at 1.5 (water goes after land), with marble last because it's 2 away (up a hill and across marsh). This is why the game almost always expands to flatland before hills or forest.

Resources get a "distance reduction" so it expands to these resources before the 3 plains tiles to the west, which are 1 away. The plains tiles on the "near side" and "far side" of the river are valued equally because they are the same distance. It selects from them at random.

 

[Txurce]

Yields don't matter when the game selects where to expand borders. What matters is "distance," essentially movement cost from the city tile.

If we settle in place the sugar is first because it's 1.5 away. Pearls are next at 1.5 (water goes after land), with marble last because it's 2 away (up a hill and across marsh). Resources get a "distance reduction," so it expands to these resources before the 3 plains tiles to the west, which are 1 away.

Thanks for the clarification, Thal.

To clarify what I asked earlier, wouldn't it be easier to not allow players to build the 3 DLC Wonders, rather than have a more elaborate pre-game folder-shifting procedure?

 

[Thalassicus]

The AI will build them. It's also important everyone has the same DLCs installed so the savegames can be loaded by everyone. The game blocks it if the installed mods and dlcs don't match.

 

[Sneaks]

Yields are ignored when the game expands borders. The important thing is "distance," essentially movement cost from the city tile.

If we settle in place the sugar is first because it's 1.5 away. Pearls are next at 1.5 (water goes after land), with marble last because it's 2 away (up a hill and across marsh). This is why the game almost always expands to flatland before hills or forest.

Resources get a "distance reduction" so it expands to these resources before the 3 plains tiles to the west, which are 1 away. The plains tiles on the "near side" and "far side" of the river are valued equally because they are the same distance. It selects from them at random.

Actually, some of this is not true.

Yields are taken into account, and 2 otherwise equal distance plots will always go to the one with the higher yield thanks to

<Row Name="PLOT_INFLUENCE_YIELD_POINT_COST">
			<Value>-1</Value>
		</Row>

and then with the river thing:

		<Row Name="INFLUENCE_MOUNTAIN_COST">
			<Value>3</Value>
		</Row>
		<Row Name="INFLUENCE_HILL_COST">
			<Value>2</Value>
		</Row>
		<Row Name="INFLUENCE_RIVER_COST">
			<Value>1</Value>
		</Row>

Cost goes down 1 per yield, up 1 if it crosses a river, up 2 if its a hill, up 3 if it is a hill across a river.

 

[Thalassicus]

Are you sure the yield variable does anything? "Not applicable" or "other" is often indicated by -1 ...

Well... whatever variables apply, the order I posted in #28 is how it works. It does match the distance analysis.

 

[Seek]

Yields are taken into account, and 2 otherwise equal distance plots will always go to the one with the higher yield ...

While I like the fact that river tiles need to be improved to unlock the +1 gold, it consistently irks me that the city AIs don't recognize the greater value of river tiles when expanding. Is there anything that can be done about it? (Or maybe I should just build a fort on the desired river tile right before a cultural expansion?)

 

[Sneaks]

We could alter the Route weight value, so it will put preference on tiles you build roads on.

 

[Thalassicus]

The AI does recognize the value of rivers when deciding where to settle cities (using a "BUILD_ON_RIVER_PERCENT" variable). I set this to 100 in the mod so they almost always build on rivers.

We're getting rather offtopic from this thread, however.

 

[Seek]

We could alter the Route weight value, so it will put preference on tiles you build roads on.

While not ideal, building a temporary road would certainly be preferable to building a fort. It might be a good move anyway, now that I think about it: roads within cultural borders aren't as vulnerable to pillaging, and it would make RL sense that culture would follow trade routes. I'd support implementing this!

The AI does recognize the value of rivers when deciding where to settle cities (using a "BUILD_ON_RIVER_PERCENT" variable). I set this to 100 in the mod so they almost always build on rivers.

We're getting rather offtopic from this thread, however.

Sorry! I meant cultural border expansion choices, not AI city placement.