Featured Game 1 Pre-Discussion

[Thalassicus]

Ah I see!

 

[void_genesis]

Hmm......time to mull things over and I know my tradition supercapital/island settling plan is a bit suboptimal (though I like to try out interesting strategies on king level rather than just go for a shortest time win).

I think a better diplo win plan would be to settle in place (most luxuries soonest, plus close marble for a wonder production boost).
Then settle north and south along the coast until you bump up against a neighbor. Then spread out to settle any islands with luxuries/fish/strategics.
Prioritise getting to caravels for settling more distant islands.
Prioritise only hanging gardens (turn capital into a settler pump) and kremlin (mid/late game island settling). Maybe Angkor Watt if I have met over half the city states by then. Buy a few distant hill/forest tiles to mine/chop during capital wonder builds.

SP- Go liberty, piety (happiness/culture to cope with rexing), then commerce (coastal bias, lots of gold/happy), patronage(? may not use much depending on timing) and finally order if the culture stands up to the settling rush.

Island cities get- workboat/pioneer fort purchased, build monument, temple, library, market, harbor, university (observatory), bank, stock-market. Pick a couple to be production cities. Zero roads.

Militarily- Play defensively with ranged garrisons and lots of ships to swarm a city if it gets targeted. Getting a fleet of ~6 ships promoted up to logistics will be very useful (move into city, double attack, and move out again, repeat). XP from barbs, then pick a weak/disliked civ to beat up.

 

[void_genesis]

Gah....reading up on Continents Plus mapscript- the city states are pretty much all put on the small islands, making island based expansion not so viable. This leaves a lot more room for expansion on the mainland continents. Time for a land based rex-athon methinks...

Back to the drawing board.

 

[Thalassicus]

In VEM only half of citystates are placed on islands. I also buffed islands significantly buffed over vanilla levels, with lots of extra Stone (happiness), Atolls and Coal (production).

 

[Txurce]

I also buffed islands significantly buffed over vanilla levels, with lots of extra Stone (happiness), Atolls and Coal (production).

Why did you do that? I have no problem with it straight off - just curious. Is it thematic to this particular GotVEM? Is it something you'd do for all of them? If so, why not incorporate the buffed ratio into VEM? No need to answer all of these - I'm just showing the sort of questions it raised for me.

 

[Ahriman]

Can someone please point me towards the continents plus mapscript?

 

[Txurce]

Can someone please point me towards the continents plus mapscript?

My understanding is that it's in the Explorers DLC. It's the only one I don't have. But you don't need it to play the GotVEM.

 

[Thalassicus]

@Txurce
I mean VEM buffs islands in general, not just this particular map. It was a result of the Islands, Citystates, and Map Generation discussion a while back.

@Ahriman
Right, part of the Explorers dlc. Or rather... it basically is the Explorers dlc! The Demark+Maps combo is $7.50, or $5 apiece separately. The map pack is by far my favorite of the paid dlcs. The various leaders I only played a few times... I wouldn't download leaders at all, if not for the fact I need to know how to mod them accurately.

In contrast the Continents Plus mapscript quickly became my favorite map. It makes navies more important, particularly to find or attack citystates, which adds fun to the game.

 

[void_genesis]

Hooray! That is great to know. I have been loving the current VEM style islands that are worth colonising even if they are small. Looks like my island hopping plan is back on.

Can we consider a consolation prize for the person who comes up with the most creative winning strategy? On King level you have a fair bit of breathing room to try out new approaches.

 

[Thalassicus]

That would be up to Txurce. He's been the one organizing this, I'm just providing the initial savegame.

 

[Txurce]

Can we consider a consolation prize for the person who comes up with the most creative winning strategy? On King level you have a fair bit of breathing room to try out new approaches.

I don't know how something like that could be adjudicated. My basic feeling is that there's no point to anything at this time beyond fastest finishes for each VC. That gives us benchmarks with which to evaluate our performances. Otherwise, we're basically sharing strategies.

The official GOTM is in a similar situation. From what I gleaned on their threads, they have yet to develop a rating system along the lines of what was available for Civ 2, 3 and 4.

 

[void_genesis]

We could simply pick someone experienced such as Thal or Txurce to be the judge. This is all in fun anyway, but I thought it would be nice to give the players something different to strive for than pure optimisation (isn't VEM about making the game diverse and fun??).

 

[Thalassicus]

Based on what's visible at the starting location, this seems appealing:

• Masonry → Sailing → Calendar
• Great Lighthouse and Pyramid wonders

Masonry and Sailing unlock both luxury resources and world wonders useful in this situation. I prioritize water luxuries because workboats are 150g, improve the tile instantly, and the luxury can be resold for 240g to immediately buy a worker. It's a powerful combo!

1. Scout → worker
2. Improve marble
3. Liberty free worker → mine forested hill
4. Purchase workboat -150 → sell pearls +240 → purchase worker -230
5. Improve sugar
6. Sell marble and sugar +480
7. Liberty free settler → 2nd city
8. Optics or Philosophy, depending on situation
9. Use Great Lighthouse's free Great Merchant at Classical era entrance for +700 and +30
10. Ally with citystate for more happiness to expand.

The Great Lighthouse turns water into 31 (plus a massive instant gold/influence boost). This would give plenty of food to work the marble and 2 river hills. That combined production capacity can build the Pyramids in about ~10 turns for a 3rd settler.

I also purchase a Monument to double policy rate as soon as gold is available. The other gold from resource sellage might be needed for early defenses if there's a hostile AI nearby.

 

[Txurce]

Based on what's visible at the starting location, this is a possible build order if we settle in place:

1. Scout → worker
2. Masonry → improve marble
3. Purchase Monument
4. Liberty → Citizenship → mine forested hill
5. Sailing → purchase workboat for -150
6. Sell pearls for +240
7. Purchase worker for -230
8. Calendar → improve sugar
9. Sell marble and sugar for +480
10. Start Great Lighthouse
11. Collective Rule → Settler → 2nd city
12. Optics or Philosophy
13. Use Great Lighthouse's free Great Merchant at start of Classical era for +700 and +30
14. Ally with citystate for more to expand

The Great Lighthouse turns the water into 31, providing plenty of food for Washington to work the marble and 2 river hills. This production capacity can build the Pyramids in about ~10 turns for another settler.

Some of the gold from resource sellage might be needed for early defenses if there's a hostile AI nearby.

The fact that food is spotty aside from Cattle, and that Continents + encourage offshore exploration and expansion, all make a start like this more attractive than usual.

 

[Thalassicus]

That's what I'm thinking too. This location actually seems rather production-heavy to me, with these land tiles within range of the capital if we settle in place:

7 hills
6 forest
6 plains
4 marsh
1 grass dry
1 grass+cow
2 grass+sugar

Most have decent hammers but low food, so we need to look to the sea for food. Even with cleared marshes, 31 coast is better than 3 farmed riverless grassland. I think the marshes could be mostly ignored until the renaissance, when they might be cleared for 24 villages after Economics. A specialist economy would likely be very useful at this location since the land tiles are low yield.

Moving one tile to the northwest sacrifices some long-term production while gaining +1 short-term production. It also picks up 1 river grassland and 2 river floodplains on the 3rd ring. We can still access the marble within the first few border expansions if we move, but the Pearls will take longer. I think either location is good.

 

[Txurce]

That's what I'm thinking too. This location actually seems rather production-heavy to me, with these land tiles within range of the capital if we settle in place:

7 hills
6 forest
6 plains
4 marsh
1 grass dry
1 grass+cow
2 grass+sugar

Most have decent hammers but low food, so we need to look to the sea for food. Even with cleared marshes, 31 coast is better than 3 farmed riverless grassland. I think the marshes could be mostly ignored until the renaissance, when they might be cleared for 24 villages after Economics. A specialist economy would likely be very useful at this location since the land tiles are low yield.

Moving one tile to the northwest sacrifices some long-term production while gaining +1 short-term production. It also picks up 1 river grassland and 2 river floodplains on the 3rd ring. We can still access the marble within the first few border expansions if we move, but the Pearls will take longer. I think either location is good.

Agreed on all this. The deciding factors for me may be moving to pick up an additional luxury - the super-city approach - vs settling and having the option of a later city on the northernmost floodplain. That's where we circle around to what the Warrior finds from his NW hillside perch.

 

[mitsho]

The problem with the "most creative way" is that there's no quantitative way to measure it. And besides, what does a "medal" achieve anyways. You cannot buy anything with it anyways. I think discussing the different strategies is enough

As for the general strategy, that flood plains spot up there looks so good anyways I will most definately go for settling in place.

 

[Gorhaax]

Is the version that well be using 107.2, since it fixes the liberty finisher?

 

[Ahriman]

I'm a bit worried that this is going to proceed using the absurdly powerful Aesthetics. I am guessing that players who use Aesthetics will easily outperform those who don't.

 

[Txurce]

I'm a bit worried that this is going to proceed using the absurdly powerful Aesthetics. I am guessing that players who use Aesthetics will easily outperform those who don't.

I've already agreed that Aesthetics seems quite powerful. But in response to your concern: if it's that strong, wouldn't everyone use it? And if they don't, wouldn't that be a good test of whether or not it's OP?